Why Does Trump Refuse to Call Out Nazis in Charlottesville?

[leibowde84]

Seriously???

Not to be rude, or anything, but are you deaf? Or did you just forget to pay your cable bill? Trump has been "all over" those morons from day 1.

(Typical left wing propaganda....Good grief!)

So, can you back that up with evidence? Or, should I just take your word for it? Did you see his news conference today?

The George Washington comparison was just too much. George Washington did not start a rebellion to fight to keep slavery in this country. The Confederacy was based on slavery and the inferiority of black people. It's not like the statues are going to be thrown in the garbage. They are going to be put in a museum. But, to keep them around in prominent places seems disrespectful to black people.

They were traitors, not heroes. And they were fighting for the subjugation of an entire race.

Take a look at this excerpt from a speech from the Vice President of the Confederacy:

The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions—African slavery as it exists among us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson, in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old Constitution were, that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with; but the general opinion of the men of that day was, that, somehow or other, in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away... Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the idea of a Government built upon it—when the "storm came and the wind blew, it fell."

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science.

. . . look with confidence to the ultimate universal acknowledgement of the truths upon which our system rests? It is the first government ever instituted upon the principles in strict conformity to nature, and the ordination of Providence, in furnishing the materials of human society. Many governments have been founded upon the principle of the subordination and serfdom of certain classes of the same race; such were and are in violation of the laws of nature. Our system commits no such violation of nature's laws.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Believing in separation of the racism IS racism. If you want your race to be separate from other races, you are a bigot/racist. And, if you are trying to limit "nazis" to those that were in Germany during WWII, anyone without German ties wouldn't count. Thus, the limitation is ludicrous.

I think it is perfectly fair to use the term "nazi" to describe anyone who believes in the separation of races, white supremacy, european supremacy, anti-semitism, etc.

But, don't forget that the National Socialist German Workers' Party was a nationalist movement focused on protectionism and putting Germany first. It sounds a lot like the political ambitions of the new administration when it comes to economics. Capitalism requires globalization and denies protectionism. It encourages international competition, not limits it.

Nazism is an actual political ideology (it has religious elements, too) and not the same as mere racial nationalism, supremacist or anti-Semitism. People need to start using words correctly. Here's a suprise for you, too: not all National Socialists are white. Japan has had a an NS movement for decades, for example.

 

[leibowde84]

Really???

Relevant part of speech starts at 18:53

"As I said on Saturday, We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred bigotry and violence. It has no place in America. And as I have said many times before, no matter the color of our skin we all live under the same laws. We all salute the same great flag and we are all made by the same Almighty God. We must love each other, show affection for each other, and unite together in condemnation of hatred, bigotry and violence We must rediscover the bonds of love and loyalty that bring us together as Americans. Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazi's, white supremists and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans." Donald J. Trump. August 14, 2017​

Wow ... you shot yourself in the foot on this one. My initial comment was before this "news conference" actually took place. In addition, he took back these comments yesterday during the actual news conference where he blew a gasket over questions from the place. Which, on its own, is pretty pathetic. We have a president with the thinnest skin in history.

He refused to blame the side that was based on hate, white nationalism, naziism, anti-semitism, and the confederacy (which was based on the inferiority of black people). Sure, Washington and Jefferson owned slaves. But, they didn't take up arms against the United States (as traitors to our country) to keep black people in chains. One side was FAR MORE to blame and is, by definition, a group of despicable, bigoted, white supremacist, white trash who support the President.

Pretty easy to see to anyone with an iota of intelligence that he is actually trying to retain support from the likes of David Duke and Richard Spencer. Unless Trump actually is under the ludicrous impression that white people are being discriminated against, he sold his soul to keep racist votes.

 

[leibowde84]

Nazism is an actual political ideology (it has religious elements, too) and not the same as mere racial nationalism, supremacist or anti-Semitism. People need to start using words correctly. Here's a suprise for you, too: not all National Socialists are white. Japan has had a an NS movement for decades, for example.

When did I say that all National Socialists are white? Also, Japanese national socialists aren't nazis.

 

[Stanyon]

Wow ... you shot yourself in the foot on this one. My initial comment was before this "news conference" actually took place. In addition, he took back these comments yesterday during the actual news conference where he blew a gasket over questions from the place. Which, on its own, is pretty pathetic. We have a president with the thinnest skin in history.

He refused to blame the side that was based on hate, white nationalism, naziism, anti-semitism, and the confederacy (which was based on the inferiority of black people). Sure, Washington and Jefferson owned slaves. But, they didn't take up arms against the United States (as traitors to our country) to keep black people in chains. One side was FAR MORE to blame and is, by definition, a group of despicable, bigoted, white supremacist, white trash who support the President.

Pretty easy to see to anyone with an iota of intelligence that he is actually trying to retain support from the likes of David Duke and Richard Spencer. Unless Trump actually is under the ludicrous impression that white people are being discriminated against, he sold his soul to keep racist votes.

I put your relevant comments in bold
Trump has been disavowing racists for years, specifically David Duke and the Ku Klux Klan- these are facts.

What does it say about the credibility of CNN/MSNBC and other news outlets that continually ignore fact, what does it say about the credibility of people who ignore facts if it doesn't fit their agenda/bias?

 

[leibowde84]

I put your relevant comments in bold
Trump has been disavowing racists for years, specifically David Duke and the Ku Klux Klan- these are facts.

What does it say about the credibility of CNN/MSNBC and other news outlets that continually ignore fact, what does it say about the credibility of people who ignore facts if it doesn't fit their agenda/bias?

You are ignoring the fact that before this, he refused to disavow David Duke and lied saying that he didn't know who he was. It wasn't until there was mounting public pressure that he finally disavowed him. CNN/MSNBC does not claim that he never disavowed Duke. Just that he took far too long to do it. It's dishonest to claim otherwise.

 

[Stanyon]

You are ignoring the fact that before this, he refused to disavow David Duke and lied saying that he didn't know who he was. It wasn't until there was mounting public pressure that he finally disavowed him. CNN/MSNBC does not claim that he never disavowed Duke. Just that he took far too long to do it. It's dishonest to claim otherwise.

So publicly denouncing racism and David Duke for many years prior to CNN/MSNBC demanding he denounce racists wasn't good enough? Using those standards we should hold CNN/MSNBCs feet to the fire over the fact that they waited over 17 years to demand that he denounce racism.

by definition, a group of despicable, bigoted, white supremacist, white trash who support the President.
Pretty easy to see to anyone with an iota of intelligence that he is actually trying to retain support from the likes of David Duke and Richard Spencer. Unless Trump actually is under the ludicrous impression that white people are being discriminated against, he sold his soul to keep racist votes.

You do realize that the term "white trash" was a derisive term blacks used for whites that couldn't afford slaves correct?

 

[leibowde84]

So publicly denouncing racism and David Duke for many years prior to CNN/MSNBC demanding he denounce racists wasn't good enough?

He wasn't relying on their votes back then. The only time that matters was after he started running for president when their votes were at stake.

You do realize that the term "white trash" was a derisive term blacks used for whites that couldn't afford slaves correct?

That's not what it means anymore, so I couldn't care less. Plus, looking at how whites have been on top for so long, we should be able to take a bit of this kind of stuff. Black people had to deal with the n-word for over a hundred years. We can't deal with "white trash"?!

 

[Stanyon]

That's not what it means anymore, so I couldn't care less.

So what does the word mean to you personally and why did you use it in your post?

Plus, looking at how whites have been on top for so long, we should be able to take a bit of this kind of stuff. Black people had to deal with the n-word for over a hundred years. We can't deal with "white trash"?!

Who is "we"?

 

[leibowde84]

So what does the word mean to you personally and why did you use it in your post?

It refers to white people with a bent toward racism, chauvinism, bigotry and white nationalism. Many dishonestly argue that white people are discriminated against. It has nothing to do with financial status, imho.

Who is "we"?

White people.

 

[Stanyon]

It refers to white people with a bent toward racism, chauvinism, bigotry and white nationalism. Many dishonestly argue that white people are discriminated against. It has nothing to do with financial status, imho.
White people.

So it is a race based stereotype? It isn't only white people that voted for or support Trump and what of his voters of many different racial/religious backgrounds- do you have a name for them as well and what does it mean to you?

White people.

So you are white, do you realize how many people of other races think that many whites have lost their minds in the respect they have lost the will to exist because of the colour of their skin and enforced white guilt?

 

[leibowde84]

So it is a race based stereotype? It isn't only white people that voted for or support Trump and what of what of the voters of many different mixed racial/religious backgrounds- do we have a name for them as well and what does it mean to you?

I don't have a problem with Trump supporters. I never suggested otherwise. I have a problem with racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. And, I have a problem with Trump for courting them and even worrying about keeping their votes. They are antithetical to every good thing about America.

So you are white, do you realize how many people of other races think that whites have lost their minds in the respect that many whites have lost the will to exist because of the colour of their skin and enforced white guilt?
I'm not white BTW

Well, I would say that they are out of their element. If a small minority of white people (I don't know of any myself, but I can't deny that they don't exist) have lost the will to exist, they probably have some mental issues, depression, addiction, etc. Blaming it on things like political correctness and "white guilt" is just about the silliest thing I've ever heard. There are obviously racists on both sides. I would argue that white racists have absolutely no plausible reason to hold their views, while members of other races might. But, that doesn't excuse it. There is absolutely no reason for white people to feel discriminated against.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

When did I say that all National Socialists are white? Also, Japanese national socialists aren't nazis.

You do realize that "Nazi" is just an abbreviation for National Socialist, right?

 

[Stanyon]

I have a problem with racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. And, I have a problem with Trump for courting them and even worrying about keeping their votes.

There is documented footage of Trump personally disavowing racists over and over again in this thread, before, during, and after the election, all we have from those who claim he is courting or courted racists is claims.

 

[leibowde84]

You do realize that "Nazi" is just an abbreviation for National Socialist, right?

Nope. You are dead wrong. Nazi is an abbreviation for the National Socialist German Workers' Party.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Nope. You are dead wrong. Nazi is an abbreviation for the National Socialist German Workers' Party.

No, it isn't:

"The full name of Adolf Hitler's party was Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei(acronym: NSDAP; English: National-Socialist German Workers' Party). The shorthand Naziwas formed from the first two syllables of the German pronunciation of the word "national" (IPA: [na-tsi̯-o-ˈnaːl]).[4]

The term was in use before the rise of the NSDAP as a colloquial and derogatory word for a backwards peasant, characterizing an awkward and clumsy person. It was derived from Ignaz, which is a shortened version of Ignatius,[5][6] a common name in Bavaria, the area from which the Nazis emerged. Opponents seized on this and shortened the first word of the party's name, Nationalsozialistische, to the dismissive "Nazi".[6][7][8][9]

The NSDAP briefly adopted the Nazi designation, attempting to reappropriate the term, but it soon gave up this effort and generally avoided using the term while it was in power.[7][8] The use of "Nazi Germany", "Nazi regime", and so on was popularised by German exiles. From them, the term spread into other languages and it was eventually brought back into Germany after World War II.[7] In English, Nazism is a common name for the ideology which the party advocated; a rarer alternative spelling, though representing a common pronunciation, is Naziism (/ˈnɑːtsi.ɪzəmˌ ˈnæ-/).[10]"

Nazism - Wikipedia

Japanese Nazis are Nazis. You're just being ignorant and silly.

 

[leibowde84]

There is documented footage of Trump personally disavowing racists over and over again in this thread, before, during, and after the election, all we have from those who claim he is courting or courted racists is claims.

1. He's got Steve Bannon, a known anti-semite and racist, and a spokesman for the alt-right as an advisor.
2. He refused to disavow David Duke until he was pressured repeatedly. And, he lied about not knowing who he was.
3. He rationalized the white supremacists trying to stop confederate statues from being put into museums, falsely equating them with George Washington and Thomas Jefferson just because they owned slaves. (this might actually just be stupidity, as Trump is not very knowledgable about history ... obviously they aren't being taken down because they were slave holders)
4. He refused to blame the white supremacists for holding a nazi torch rally the night before the Charlottesville incident, and refused to place more blame on them, even though it is clear that they incited the violence. (pretty much everyone agrees on this point)
5. He had racist housing policies at his properties in the 80s.
6. He has repeatedly used sexist language.
7. He blamed the counter-protesters for standing up to white supremacists (this was absolutely necessary, as we cannot allow brown-shirt rallies to go on unabated)
8. He refused to say that White Nationalists, racists, and nazis are unwelcome in our country and are evil people.
9. He claimed that there were some good people at the nazi rallies Saturday night.

... the list goes on. He is absolutely trying to not offend his base and retain support. His fellow republicans aren't afraid to stand up to racists with extremely strong language. Trump read off of a teleprompter, but when he spoke from the heart, he took back every good thing he said.

 

[leibowde84]

No, it isn't:

"The full name of Adolf Hitler's party was Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei(acronym: NSDAP; English: National-Socialist German Workers' Party). The shorthand Naziwas formed from the first two syllables of the German pronunciation of the word "national" (IPA: [na-tsi̯-o-ˈnaːl]).[4]

The term was in use before the rise of the NSDAP as a colloquial and derogatory word for a backwards peasant, characterizing an awkward and clumsy person. It was derived from Ignaz, which is a shortened version of Ignatius,[5][6] a common name in Bavaria, the area from which the Nazis emerged. Opponents seized on this and shortened the first word of the party's name, Nationalsozialistische, to the dismissive "Nazi".[6][7][8][9]

The NSDAP briefly adopted the Nazi designation, attempting to reappropriate the term, but it soon gave up this effort and generally avoided using the term while it was in power.[7][8] The use of "Nazi Germany", "Nazi regime", and so on was popularised by German exiles. From them, the term spread into other languages and it was eventually brought back into Germany after World War II.[7] In English, Nazism is a common name for the ideology which the party advocated; a rarer alternative spelling, though representing a common pronunciation, is Naziism (/ˈnɑːtsi.ɪzəmˌ ˈnæ-/).[10]"

Nazism - Wikipedia

Japanese Nazis are Nazis. You're just being ignorant and silly.

Right back at ya. This supports my claim. The term "nazi" was an abbreviation for the National Socialist German Workers' Party.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Right back at ya. This supports my claim. The term "nazi" was an abbreviation for the National Socialist German Workers' Party.

The first two words only. Try reading next time.

 

[leibowde84]

No, it isn't:

"The full name of Adolf Hitler's party was Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei(acronym: NSDAP; English: National-Socialist German Workers' Party). The shorthand Naziwas formed from the first two syllables of the German pronunciation of the word "national" (IPA: [na-tsi̯-o-ˈnaːl]).[4]

The term was in use before the rise of the NSDAP as a colloquial and derogatory word for a backwards peasant, characterizing an awkward and clumsy person. It was derived from Ignaz, which is a shortened version of Ignatius,[5][6] a common name in Bavaria, the area from which the Nazis emerged. Opponents seized on this and shortened the first word of the party's name, Nationalsozialistische, to the dismissive "Nazi".[6][7][8][9]

The NSDAP briefly adopted the Nazi designation, attempting to reappropriate the term, but it soon gave up this effort and generally avoided using the term while it was in power.[7][8] The use of "Nazi Germany", "Nazi regime", and so on was popularised by German exiles. From them, the term spread into other languages and it was eventually brought back into Germany after World War II.[7] In English, Nazism is a common name for the ideology which the party advocated; a rarer alternative spelling, though representing a common pronunciation, is Naziism (/ˈnɑːtsi.ɪzəmˌ ˈnæ-/).[10]"

Nazism - Wikipedia

Japanese Nazis are Nazis. You're just being ignorant and silly.

Obviously enough, I am speaking to the origin of the word. Now it is used more broadly.

The National Socialist German Workers' Party (German: Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (help·info), abbreviated NSDAP), commonly referred to in English as the Nazi Party (/ˈnɑːtsi/), was a far-right political party in Germany that was active between 1920 and 1945 and practised the ideology of Nazism.