metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
It is not false, so you don't know what you're talking about and don't even have the curiosity or the decency to ask.
IOW, we're done.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Why Doesn't the World Call on Hamas to Surrender?
- Thread starter icehorse
- Start date
It is not false, so you don't know what you're talking about and don't even have the curiosity or the decency to ask.
IOW, we're done.
Well go and puke somewhere else. I'm not bothering with your emotional crap.Are you serious? You think my position, which is anti-war crimes, justifies war crimes?
Are you genuinely stating that you believe war crimes are a reasonable response to war crimes? You actually, seriously want to argue that?
You realise you're justifying Hamas, right?
Equating "war" and "war crimes" is false equivalence. My issue isn't with Israel committing to war in these circumstances, nor is it with the existence of collateral damage as a consequence. It is with the specific ways in which Israel has conducted its operations in Gaza (and the West Bank) that equate to WAR CRIMES. If you are incapable of making the distinction, you definitely DO need help.
Israeli war crimes in the Israel–Hamas war - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
See this? This is the stuff you have to justify. Believe it or not, these things don't naturally happen as an inevitable consequence of just every war ever. They happen as a direct consequence of decisions made to either disregard the safety and lives of civilians, or an active decision to put civilians in the line of fire. You cannot, and I will not allow you to, suggest that these count as perfectly legitimate acts of war any more than I would accept Hamas' terrorist incursion on 10/7 as "a justified retaliatory act of violent resistance".
Yes, they did.
And...? Do you think I believe those war crimes were reasonably justified?
Stop engaging in whataboutism.
But you believe committing war crimes can be justified, at least if you've had war crimes committed against you. So, considering the history of Israel's war crimes against Palestine and Gaza, you should believe that Hamas did nothing wrong. Right?
"What's they're doing isn't bad, because it could have been worse."
Great logic. Who cares if they've killed tens of thousands of civilians, missile-struck the homes of journalists, attacked aid convoys, shot starving civilians, killed their own hostages, bombed schools and hospitals and refugee camps, engage in collective punishment by cutting off water and power to a densely populated civilian area, and repeated and brazenly break international law. As long as they're not LITERALLY DROPPING NUKES then it's all a-okay!
The logic some people will use to excuse and justify war crimes is sickening.
MayPeaceBeUpOnYou
Active Member
So if it’s not false then answer my question? Your problem is that you deny the Palestinians haven’t got a right to fight against injustices .
Димитар
Прaвославие!
The problem is Hamas not the Palestinians.
I think that you don't know much about politics in general and you cannot see these religious fanatics.
Israel is surrounded by Islamic sects - that's a fact.By these 'sects' i mean people who chant 'death to Israel' and 'death to America'.I am no American , but i can see here attack on culture not just on countries.We talking about attack on democracy.
What most people don't understant is the fact that sects are willing to engage in war(jihad) against everyone.
I mean , i have witnessed a war , i know how does it feel when it's nasty..
Something in me however suffers for the life of the people of Gaza.Maybe that by which we are human indeed.I don't support Israel , but i can see the big picture in that region.Hamas is no good as the other sects are not also.The only problem is the way Israel is doing all of this.I still don't have a say on this war.
What when it is over and Hamas is defeated , who will build Gaza again and what will happen with those who remain alive? I don't think that anyone should help Israel if Gaza was to be rebuilt.If Israel is what is indeed claimed by the Jews.
People will always talk , but with time they will forget.Such conflicts do not contribute in any way if humanity indeed aims to peace.Otherwise people will die without knowing how to have a life because of hate and war.
But when someone says to you these kind of things that doesn't mean that is a personal attack on your belief,it just says that certain group of people do certain things for religious purpose.There was no Palestine in 1948 as United Arabs declared war on the newly formed state of Israel.Palestine is just the after - effect.Israel fought for independence as that would be the consequence of WW II and in that time Arabs had the chance to do the same , but instead they engaged in war against Israel.That's a fact.
By the late fifth century BC,The Philistines vanished from both historical and archaeological records as a distinct group.I can't see a connection with the names and the people living there since then.If indeed Palestine is to be a state it should be a state of Christian and Muslim Arabs as other minorities also.They live there since 7th Century CE and that is quite a long time.
I don't have much to say about Israel , they are building their own image as a nation.
MayPeaceBeUpOnYou
Active Member
Look I don’t have a issue of people criticizing Islam. The problem is when people deny facts . Sure the Palestinians are Muslims but history shows clearly that they are not fighting because they are Muslims.
They are fighting against the injustice that they endured and to say this is all about religion is just ignoring history and a sad attempt to justify their wrong doings
Димитар
Прaвославие!
See this is the problem here.
You are misrepresenting my position.Majority of Palestinians are Muslims , not all of them.There are Christian amongs them also.They are fighting against injustice as you said and that means that has a cause.Only a blind man can't see that Hamas orchestrated all of what is happening.They are ready to die all and take as many as it gets.History will speak about Israel , it always did.
These victim narrative is oftenly used lately in media.We suffer as every Muslims suffers with what is happening in Gaza.
But it seems to me that religious agenda is the logical observation of the situation.Nothing will change with making noise and putting the finger on Israel.
This is not attack on Islam as a religion , but on certain Islamic sects and their world view.
MayPeaceBeUpOnYou
Active Member
What I just said was a clarification on my previous message that I replied to metis. The idea that this conflict is because religion is false. People were thrown out of their homes and slaughter, that is what caused this everything . So I just clarified my position to you..
Димитар
Прaвославие!
Nono , Arabs had the right as the Jews had to establish a state in that time.The Jews primary intention is state by which the survivors of the Holocaust would live.'Palestine' was under British rulling , not by Arab.So The Jews did not start the war , the Arabs did.
Here is the evidence
Source:
Are you sure that you know what Palestine is refered to?
That would be silly as Hamas is an idea .. is like calling Islam to surrender .. and what is being surrendured ? What the world could is ask the leaders of Hamas to tell their membership to stop fighting .. which they have already agreed to do if Israel will cease fire.
This may get the hostages released as well.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Question: How do you feel about land, that has been settled for multiple generations, being owned and then carved up and given away - not by the people who have lived there for multiple generations, but by people who not only don't live there, but lived thousands of miles away and maintain power through imperialism?
A big fan, I take it?
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Ah yes, "emotional crap" and "puke". Good arguments against war crimes from Mr "If states aren't allowed to commit war crimes in response to terrorism IT'S NOT FAAAAAAAAIR".
Get a grip.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Then please explain why it's perfectly okay to kill thirty-thousands plus Palestinians in response to Hamas.
The rest of your pablum is irrelevant until you answer that.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Still have yet to see an argument successfully justifying the deaths of thirty-thousands plus civilians. I see a lot of obfuscation, though.
Generally speaking, when people try to change the focus from "This state is currently engaged in war crimes" to "But religion, though, what with the Islam and such" it's rarely anything more than a feeble attempt to distract from the war crimes. As if the beliefs of those civilians who are the victims of war crimes is in any way relevant to whether or not those war crimes were or are reasonably justified.
Treat people better - or go on ignore.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
You, one post earlier:
"Well go and puke somewhere else. I'm not bothering with your emotional crap."
Clearly, you're a role model for treating people with respect.
I repeat: get a grip.
I don't like being portrayed as some sick-inducing monster simply because I have a different perspective over this issue than many others. That is why I replied as I did. Not much point in dealing with any of your points.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
People who deliberately misrepresent war crimes as legitimate acts of war are pretty hard to portray positively.
In any case, if I am misrepresenting you, try arguing against the misrepresentation and clarifying your position rather than accusing me of "puking" and/or engaging in "emotional crap". It looks a lot less like you're making some principled stance against my characterisation of you and much more just desperately avoiding engaging with the argument because you realise you're in the wrong.
And yet you demand I "treat you better". No irony at all there.
How about I keep "puking" my "emotional crap" about how war crimes are bad, and you can keep justifying and excusing the mass slaughter of civilians. Deal?
Wonder which one of us would come out looking better.
MayPeaceBeUpOnYou
Active Member
Sure Arabs did attack Israel, but the conflict started before that correct?
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
Not without encouraging more attacks on themself.
Last edited:
Koldo
Outstanding Member
Unfounded assumption.