Why Doesn't the World Call on Hamas to Surrender?

[dybmh]

I'm happy to call out evil wherever I see it. I believe you're rationalising because you don't want to accept that Israel is doing evil. I've seen this before.

You assume that I'm wrong, because you've seen this before I must be the same as the others. So you won't listen to me? I'm guilty of faulty reasoning till proven innocent? Because you've seen this before?

Because we can both see the wreckage from months of bombing. All the dead babies, women, men. The thirst and hunger of the hundreds of thousands of people who have been living in hell for months on end. Coralled from camp to camp, not knowing if they will be alive this time tomorrow. All the homes destroyed, the hospitals, the schools, the refugee camps.

You believe the "news" coverage? What you're seeing on the "news" are headlines nothing more. Have you analyzed the circumstances which produced the wreckage you're referring to? You assume that it must be evil, because, you cannot fathom anything else?

You mention headlines, are you aware that the Israeli military has been targetting and killing journalists at an unprecedented rate?

It's not true. They're not targeting journalists. Someone told you that and you believe it?

Even Putin does not murder the press like this. Why would they do that, do you think?

Why do you believe it's true?

Is your depth of knowledge on this any deeper than the headlines? Have you read about the hostages which were rescued? They were held in multiple locations by "civilians", in densely populated areas. They were rescued from a refugee camp where the "civilians" were firing on the IDF from their homes preventing their recovery.

 

[LadyJane]

Are we to ignore the hindering of humanitarian aid and conduct at Teiman Prison?

Israel to Shut Down Sde Teiman Prison, Where Detained Gazans Have Been Tortured

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Are we to ignore the hindering of humanitarian aid and conduct at Teiman Prison?

Or, for that matter, the challenge faced by the Mandaeans in Michigan and elsewhere as Karsa approaches.

But, before address either (or both) of these issues, would yo mind telling us where you've addressed the question posed in the OP? Thanks.

 

[LadyJane]

Or, for that matter, the challenge faced by the Mandaeans in Michigan and elsewhere as Karsa approaches.

But, before address either (or both) of these issues, would yo mind telling us where you've addressed the question posed in the OP? Thanks.

Post #84.

The bit you've quoted is in response to the suggestion above it.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

2000Lb penetrates deeply, saving lives.

.... The crazy is strong with that sentence...

Maybe try again when you come back to us from Bizarro World. That tangent about the UN had nothing to do with my post, either.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It's obvious that Israel supporters have entered the denial and delusion phase to justify their continuing support of atrocities. There's no reasoning with people in that stage.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

It's obvious that Israel supporters have entered the denial and delusion phase to justify their continuing support of atrocities. There's no reasoning with people in that stage.

Well, I try to support all humans in that conflict, but that means I call out some on both sides.

 

[Brickjectivity]

.... The crazy is strong with that sentence...

Maybe try again when you come back to us from Bizarro World. That tangent about the UN had nothing to do with my post, either.

Take away the missiles: institute an actual justice system, and you remove the power of Hamas to kill and terrorize the populace. That is what is happening. Keep in mind that most of Hamas has been cleared out through warnings, evacuations, bunker busting, tunnel plugging and raids. Its been slow work to save lives: the destruction of tunnels and weapons, since Hamas hide as civilians. Obviously most of the soldiers will not be killed, but the weapons will be seized or destroyed.

Put in a court system, get the economy going again. This is what the UN was supposed to be doing while it was in charge of Gaza. The UN should have been doing this, but it was working against the people all the while smiling at them; because it was and is a council of dictators.

The UN's agents in media claim that clearing the weapons bunkers is merciless and unkind, and its South Africa lawsuit blames Israel for Gaza's suffering completely ignoring the UN's role. The UN's own causative role is ignored.

Lets not leave out the most important player in this situation: the UN. This situation is its design. None of this was necessary and could have been avoided if the UN was doing its job after it asked Israel to release control of Gaza strip. Its agents are in there provoking war in the meantime. Billions of dollars sent into Gaza, and most of it is turned into weapons and bunkers; and the UN is there monitoring it all and saying nothing and even supporting the schools as they teach killing. The UN controls the money, yet it somehow pretends it doesn't know what's happening to the aid money.

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

Put in a court system, get the economy going again. This is what the UN was supposed to be doing while it was in charge of Gaza. The UN should have been doing this, but it was working against the people all the while smiling at them; because it was and is a council of dictators

Gaza is still considered to be occupied territories so the occupier is still responsible, which is israel.
If people of Gaza are still under siege how can they thrive and better the economy. The borders are closed, no airport, depended on water and electricity. No control of what comes in m.

UN is there monitoring it all and saying nothing and even supporting the schools as they teach killing. The UN controls the money, yet it somehow pretends it doesn't know what's happening to the aid money.

We should be fair and acknowledge Israel isn’t the sweetheart in this conflict concerning how children are taught that Palestinians are evil.

https://m.facebook.com/drhassaantohid/videos/israeli-little-kids-have-learned-to-hate-palestinians-this-needs-to-be-condemned/2934154943509587/

The UN's agents in media claim that clearing the weapons bunkers is merciless and unkind, and its South Africa lawsuit blames Israel for Gaza's suffering completely ignoring the UN's role. The UN's own causative role is ignored.

You can’t ask a population that’s under siege to lay their weapons. A resistance has a right of fighting their oppressors under international law

 

[dybmh]

Are we to ignore the hindering of humanitarian aid and conduct at Teiman Prison?

Israel to Shut Down Sde Teiman Prison, Where Detained Gazans Have Been Tortured

I'm happy to discuss it. This is the first I've heard of it. Would you like to present the anti-israel perspective, and I'll see what I can find on it?

ETA: Ah. DemocracyNow. I've found them to be a highly biased one-sided source.

 

[LadyJane]

Ah. DemocracyNow. I've found them to be a highly biased one-sided source.

It was reported on by nearly every news outlet.

I chose to share one that was free.

 

[dybmh]

It was reported on by nearly every news outlet.

I chose to share one that was free.

Noted. Thank you, I've been reading about it. I am prepared to discuss it if you wish.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Gaza is still considered to be occupied territories so the occupier is still responsible, which is israel.
If people of Gaza are still under siege how can they thrive and better the economy. The borders are closed, no airport, depended on water and electricity. No control of what comes in m.

Its not under seige by Israel if the UN countries won't let the people there leave. Israel captured this from Egypt in 1967, but in 2005 Israel left. I notice that Gaza hasn't been attacking Egypt, yet Egypt maintains a blockade against it. Why doesn't Gaza attack Egypt? Because the UN doesn't hate Egypt. It hates Israel and foments hatred against it. It was fine for Egypt to attack Israel before. The UN was fine with that. It was not Ok with Israel's victory which was unexpected. UN is the occupier of Gaza, but Israel is probably going to take over again. We'll see what happens; but what has not happened is the wholesale slaughter that the UN tried to instigate.

 

[LadyJane]

Would you like to present the anti-israel perspective, and I'll see what I can find on it?

I don't possess an "anti-israel" stance. Anti-torture is more accurate.

 

[Yerda]

You assume that I'm wrong, because you've seen this before I must be the same as the others. So you won't listen to me? I'm guilty of faulty reasoning till proven innocent? Because you've seen this before?

I'm telling you what it looks like to me. Maybe I'm wrong.

You believe the "news" coverage? What you're seeing on the "news" are headlines nothing more. Have you analyzed the circumstances which produced the wreckage you're referring to?

I only know what I see and read, yes. I was reading the accounts of Gazans, documenting the absolute hell they are living in, until I couldn't stomach any more. My partner followed a Palestinian jounalist in Gaza for a while until his account went quiet. I suspect he is dead now.

You assume that it must be evil, because, you cannot fathom anything else?

I'm not sure what other way I could describe the massacre of civilians, including little children. To me, their lives were just as valuable as the Israelis killed by Hamas in October.

And the ones still alive, being treated like vermin. Homes turned to rubble. Cutting off food and aid and water. Putting them through hell like they just don't matter at all. I think the word for this is evil.

It's not true. They're not targeting journalists. Someone told you that and you believe it?

Reporters Without Borders and the Committe to Protect Journalists have both published on the matter.

This pattern isn't new either. The IDF have been killing journalists with impunity for quite some time. The frequency, though, is new.

Why do you believe it's true?

RSF video investigation into the death of Reuters reporter Issam Abdallah in Lebanon: the journalists' vehicle was explicitly targeted

Reporters Without Borders (RSF) has released a video reconstruction of the tragedy that resulted in the death of one journalist and the injury of several others. The initial findings of the investigation show that the reporters were not collateral victims of the shooting. One of their vehicles...

rsf.org

Killing of journalists in the Israel–Hamas war - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Widespread Targeting of Journalists in Gaza Amid Israeli Attacks [EN/AR] - occupied Palestinian territory

News and Press Release in Arabic on occupied Palestinian territory about Protection and Human Rights; published on 26 Nov 2023 by Mwatana

reliefweb.int

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/02/gaza-un-experts-condemn-killing-and-silencing-journalists

Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war - Committee to Protect Journalists

The Israel-Gaza war has taken an unprecedented toll on Gazan journalists since Israel declared war on Hamas following its attack against Israel on October 7, 2023. As of October 29, 2024, CPJ’s preliminary investigations showed at least 134 journalists and media workers were among the more than...

cpj.org

Is your depth of knowledge on this any deeper than the headlines? Have you read about the hostages which were rescued? They were held in multiple locations by "civilians", in densely populated areas. They were rescued from a refugee camp where the "civilians" were firing on the IDF from their homes preventing their recovery.

No, I haven't but I am glad that they are free. If this is true it doesn't surprise me.

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

Its not under seige by Israel if the UN countries won't let the people there leave

just because people cannot leave there, doesn’t mean it’s not under siege. It’s still occupied territories no matter how you wanna frame it

Israel captured this from Egypt in 1967, but in 2005 Israel left. I notice that Gaza hasn't been attacking Egypt, yet Egypt maintains a blockade against it. Why doesn't Gaza attack Egypt? Because the UN doesn't hate Egypt.

Why in gods name should the people of Gaza attack Egypt?
Egypt has a right to blockade their borders. for what reason? They don’t need to give explanations for that and the UN has no power to open the borders of Egypt.

It hates Israel and foments hatred against it. It was fine for Egypt to attack Israel before. The UN was fine with that. It was not Ok with Israel's victory which was unexpected. UN is the occupier of Gaza, but Israel is probably going to take over again. We'll see what happens; but what has not happened is the wholesale slaughter that the UN tried to instigate.

if just think that since this conflict started that the UN and other countries of the UN are tired of this conflict not being resolved. Every time it’s back on the schedule. And maybe you might think that UN is in the fault but the UN didn’t started this mess and other countries that uses their veto to stop any resolution is also not helping their effort. Having said that I do think they are put in position because of that to protect the people that are in between the conflict which is the Palestinians people. We have to agree that both party’s Hamas and Israel have their demands and will never work together so the un is getting nowhere. The only parties that are responsible is that of the US , Israel government and Hamas.

 

[Brickjectivity]

just because people cannot leave there, doesn’t mean it’s not under siege. It’s still occupied territories no matter how you wanna frame it

Why in gods name should the people of Gaza attack Egypt?
Egypt has a right to blockade their borders. for what reason? They don’t need to give explanations for that and the UN has no power to open the borders of Egypt.

I don't demand explanations from Egypt. I know very well Hamas and Egypt are working together. What could be more plain since the exposure of tunnels beneath Rafah gate. Calling this beseiged is ridiculous.

if just think that since this conflict started that the UN and other countries of the UN are tired of this conflict not being resolved. Every time it’s back on the schedule. And maybe you might think that UN is in the fault but the UN didn’t started this mess and other countries that uses their veto to stop any resolution is also not helping their effort. Having said that I do think they are put in position because of that to protect the people that are in between the conflict which is the Palestinians people. We have to agree that both party’s Hamas and Israel have their demands and will never work together so the un is getting nowhere. The only parties that are responsible is that of the US , Israel government and Hamas.

You mean all of the dictators are tired of the conflict which in no way affects them except that it embarrasses the west. Not very believable since they continually pass multiple resolutions against a country that is far better than many which are ignored by the UN council of dictators.

Hamas has no demands for Egypt? Its not terrorizing Egyptian citizens but only Israeli ones. Almost as if this whole thing is a farce to provoke Israel to massacre people, dirty its name and tarnish the ideals of the western nations. This strategy did work against the USA with Iraq and Libya. We were dolts, and we made a stupid move. We tarnished our ideals. We discouraged the next generation.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Throughout history, when one side of a war is losing, it's almost always the case that the losing side surrenders.

Why isn't the world calling on Hamas to surrender? If "the world" truly has humanitarian goals, the best way to stop civilian casualties in this war would be for Hamas to surrender.

Hamas does not care about people of Palestine. They are a terrorist group who use Palestinians as their shield.
This war is not between Israel and Palestinians. It is between Hamas and Israel. Hamas started the war, claiming to do this to free the Palestine, where in fact it was only to do terrorism and hatred.
Palestinian people would be better off if there was no Hamas.

The best way was, if Egypt allows Palestinians as refugees for a period of time to flee from the lands of war. Once Isreal finishes with the terrorists, then people come back to their home land. Then Isreal and othe Counties help them, rebuild their country.

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

I don't demand explanations from Egypt. I know very well Hamas and Egypt are working together. What could be more plain since the exposure of tunnels beneath Rafah gate. Calling this beseiged is ridiculous

I assume you are referring t groups in Egypt rather then the government of Egypt, if so then it’s the friet I am hearing this

You mean all of the dictators are tired of the conflict which in no way affects them except that it embarrasses the west. Not very believable since they continually pass multiple resolutions against a country that is far better than many which are ignored by the UN council of dictators.

well there I have to agree with you. The international court have not being consistent in prosecuting leaders in the west and others around the world.

The best way was, if Egypt allows Palestinians as refugees for a period of time to flee from the lands of war. Once Isreal finishes with the terrorists, then people come back to their home land. Then Isreal and othe Counties help them, rebuild their country.

yeah that’s not really a risk that Egypt is gonna take. You cannot ask from a country to take millions of refugees, that’s just foolish thinking

You are talking about terrorist but what is your opnion on that Israel created themselves this issues, help creating a organization to undermine Arafat and his party?

 

[Brickjectivity]

I assume you are referring t groups in Egypt rather then the government of Egypt, if so then it’s the friet I am hearing this

So Egypt's government claims not to be in control of its border?

well there I have to agree with you. The international court have not being consistent in prosecuting leaders in the west and others around the world.

This probably creates some resentment at the UN, sometimes.

You are talking about terrorist but what is your opnion on that Israel created themselves this issues, help creating a organization to undermine Arafat and his party?

It was stupid and cold.