Why Doesn't the World Call on Hamas to Surrender?

[dybmh]

That is the prolbem. That she has enemies. The first rule of war is that any plan breaks down when it comes in contact with the enemy.

So, in regard to creating safe borders, your proposal is: ignore the borders and try to make friends with those whose stated mission is to destroy Israel. They're coming to kill, murder, rape, torture, burn parents and children alive. They've done it before. They've done it recently. They've declared they will do it again. But securing the borders are not the first step?

 

[dybmh]

any plan breaks down when it comes in contact with the enemy.

It's not literally true. The axiom is a training tool which encourages MORE preparation not less. I was taught, prepardness prevents. Failure to plan, is planning to fail.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

So, in regard to creating safe borders, your proposal is: ignore the borders and try to make friends with those whose stated mission is to destroy Israel. They're coming to kill, murder, rape, torture, burn parents and children alive. They've done it before. They've done it recently. They've declared they will do it again. But securing the borders are not the first step?

No, I am saying that is not a given that Israel will make it. That is all.

Now I hope it will end well for both sides, but that is a hope.

As for being objective, well it is a diputed area and there are more than one party that wants the land, that is my point.
As for who have the objective right to it. Nobody as far as I can tell, because it is different subjective stories.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

It's not literally true. The axiom is a training tool which encourages MORE preparation not less. I was taught, prepardness prevents. Failure to plan, is planning to fail.

Well, for a complex matter it is true. For a single tactical outcome then yes. But for the broad strokes no.

 

[dybmh]

No, I am saying that is not a given that Israel will make it. That is all.

The you are not responding to what I wrote, you're making a somewhat random comment about the long term survival of the nation.

Please. IF the survival of Israel is not a given THEN Israel must create safe borders for itself ELSE it is liable to be exterminated. Agreed?

 

[dybmh]

Well, for a complex matter it is true.

Nope. Complex operations are routinely planned and executed with absolute precision. All that's needed is a good team. Or several teams working together. It's poetry in motion.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The you are not responding to what I wrote, you're making a somewhat random comment about the long term survival of the nation.

Please. IF the survival of Israel is not a given THEN Israel must create safe borders for itself ELSE it is liable to be exterminated. Agreed?

Yeah, if it makes you feel better, then we will agree and I will leave for now.

 

[wellwisher]

There's something that doesn't add up...really.

If the Gazans are really victims of Hamas, why don't they seek the alliance of the IDF?
Why don't they welcome IDF soldiers as liberators and cooperate with them?

As far as my people remember, Sicilian civilians welcomed Americans as liberators, after the Nazis left the island.

It is the same reason why immigrant pockets in America, put up with their ethnic version of the mafia, and are often suspicious of the police who can help them. If you talk to the police and big bother ethnic mafia catches you, it will be bad for you, your family and friends. You are safer to pay the extortion and not talk to the police.

The Hamas Mafia is using human shields. These civilians; shields, are not freedom fighter, but are there out of fear of Hamas, who is more than willing to kill their own, for their own survival; human shields. The only way to protect the Palestinian civilians from Hamas is to leave them be; to avoid making them a target, while going after the head of the snake, who hides among their own scared and brain washed civilians.

The reason IDF does not help is the UN has become a type of shake down racket that sides with any opportunity that can leas to a transfer of wealth to them; middlemen. The US Democrat Party corrupted them by making the US the bad guy with deep pockets. The Dems get a cut.

If you go to any ethnic area, in any US city, connected to immigration, each new group brings its own version of the Hamas mafia who prey on them. The immigrants may still be illegal, so it is not easy to seek help from the police, since there is conflict of interest. They have to cooperate with their mafia who then recruits young men, who see this as a way to find security, by being part of the street thug gang.

In my city, there is a large population of South Eastern Asians and there are two main rival gangs. These gangs appears to be part of a rite of passage with many young men and women becoming active gang members when in their teens and twenties. They stay to the own, via the two gang competition. By their thirties they are phasing down and are no longer active members, but retain the prestige of a being a former gang member. From there they marry, work hard and buy homes, have families, etc, to become legitimate, while still being elders for gang protection. They figured out a way to accommodate the inevitable ethnic mafia, while using it as a stepping stone to social legitimacy; business owner who is protected as an Asian and as an American.

Hamas is sort of the same thing but in a country where there is less opportunity and their mafia is very cruel. Israel is seen as the rival gang with attack on human shields like bystanders of drive by shootings. This fuels the rage of the gang to fight on and get worse.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... and provide support for her enemies.

You do not hold Israel (or, for that matter, yourself) to a higher ethical standard? That is truly sad.

 

[dybmh]

You do not hold Israel (or, for that matter, yourself) to a higher ethical standard? That is truly sad.

Of course not. Shame on you! Hamas are muslims. Islam is a highly ethical religion. Equal to Judaism in regard to ethics. If the enemies of Israel followed the quran, none of this would be happening right now.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

You do not hold Israel (or, for that matter, yourself) to a higher ethical standard? That is truly sad.

Of course not. Shame on you! Hamas are muslims. Islam is a highly ethical religion. Equal to Judaism in regard to ethics. If the enemies of Israel followed the quran, none of this would be happening right now.

Transparent bigotry is rendered no more acceptable by dressing it in opaque sarcasm.

Whether one is conflating

• the KKK and Christianity,
• Hamas and Islam, or
• Kach and Judaism,

it is ugly.

 

[oldbadger]

Throughout history, when one side of a war is losing, it's almost always the case that the losing side surrenders.

Why isn't the world calling on Hamas to surrender?

The world is not at war, but the Israeli leadership is, and I get the impression that the Isrseli leadership wants to continue razing Gaza.

 

[dybmh]

it is ugly

Bro. You are either intentionally misunderstanding what I wrote, or, ... something. Have good Shabbos.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Bro. You are either intentionally misunderstanding what I wrote, or, ... something. Have good Shabbos.

Both are possible. Shabbat Shalom.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Nope. Complex operations are routinely planned and executed with absolute precision. All that's needed is a good team. Or several teams working together. It's poetry in motion.

Which is why Israel's weapons are so damn expensive. They are precision devices. If the USA were not helping then a lot more people would be dying. Intelligence plus precision weapons really do matter. Its why Israel has gone so very slowly through Gaza when it could have simply conquered it over a few days using lots of non-precision weapons. Saved soldiers lives, too. In fact they could have gotten it all done, and the world wouldn't even remember it today.

If you go in there with only hand grenades and bazookas guess what. If you go in there with US (and Israeli) smart weapons you have a chance of saving some people in between.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Which is why Israel's weapons are so damn expensive. They are precision devices. If the USA were not helping then a lot more people would be dying. Intelligence plus precision weapons really do matter. Its why Israel has gone so very slowly through Gaza when it could have simply conquered it over a few days using lots of non-precision weapons. Saved soldiers lives, too. In fact they could have gotten it all done, and the world wouldn't even remember it today.

If you go in there with only hand grenades and bazookas guess what. If you go in there with US (and Israeli) smart weapons you have a chance of saving some people in between.

There is more to it than that.

 

[Brickjectivity]

There is more to it than that.

The day of they were ready to presume and accuse Israel of intent to slay all of Gaza, but that plan failed. It started the same day of the attack, meaning the agents of the UN and of Hamas had prepared propaganda ahead of time; but they underestimated Israel and the USA. We didn't slaughter the Gazans, and in fact we showed to their surprise that we could pick the soldiers out like cruft between teeth. The Israelies went right in, slowly combing through the cities disarming traps. Precision bombs pierced the ground opening tunnels. Thousands of weapons caches were plundered. Slowly, slowly ever so slowly and carefully destroying Hamas. The whole time the UN was announcing exaggerated death tolls, from the beginning. It was all set up. They planned to force Israel to massacre Gaza, and that plan failed.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The day of they were ready to presume and accuse Israel of intent to slay all of Gaza, but that plan failed. It started the same day of the attack, meaning the agents of the UN and of Hamas had prepared propaganda ahead of time; but they underestimated Israel and the USA. We didn't slaughter the Gazans, and in fact we showed to their surprise that we could pick the soldiers out like cruft between teeth. The Israelies went right in, slowly combing through the cities disarming traps. Precision bombs pierced the ground opening tunnels. Thousands of weapons caches were plundered. Slowly, slowly ever so slowly and carefully destroying Hamas. The whole time the UN was announcing exaggerated death tolls, from the beginning. It was all set up. They planned to force Israel to massacre Gaza, and that plan failed.

Well, I understand it differently, so consider it over for now. I will remember not to qoute you on this topic.

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

The images from Gaza and westbank that comes to through our screens says enough. The Palestinians are in no need propaganda

 

[dybmh]

Both are possible.

Agreed! 100%. Now, we're on the same page

Shabbat Shalom.

Thank you sincerely