Why Don’t You Believe Jesus Rose From The Grave?

[Trailblazer]

He took what we would call a glorified body. He ate fish to demonstrate that it was a physical body.

And He said to them, Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your heart?
See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you behold Me having.

And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.
And while they still did not believe for joy and were marveling, He said to them, Do you have anything here to eat?

And they handed Him a piece of broiled fish;
And He took it and ate before them. (Luke 24:38-43)

There is no such thing as a glorified body. There are only two kinds of bodies, physical bodies and spiritual bodies.

1 Corinthians 15
New Living Translation

35 But someone may ask, “How will the dead be raised? What kind of bodies will they have?”
40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies. 41 The sun has one kind of glory, while the moon and stars each have another kind. And even the stars differ from each other in their glory.

42 It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever. 43 Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength. 44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.
51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

So aside from miraculously appearing in a locked room He also
presented Himself with many "infallible proofs" that He was bodily resurrected.

All these are only stories and there is no reason to believe they are true stories.
But you are free to believe them if you want to.

Stories men wrote who were not even eyewitnesses do not constitute infallible proofs.

The word of God says that God's feet will stand upon the Mount of Olives in Christ's
second coming.

Then Jehovah will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights in a day of battle.
And His feet will stand in that day on the Mount of Olives, (Zech. 14:3,4a)

God's feet will never stand on earth, nor will the feet of Jesus.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

But I agree that I find no other people in heaven now until the resurrection / transfiguration, rapture to the thirds heavens of believers towards the end of this age.

The rapture belief has no biblical basis.

Are you someone who was once influenced by Watchtower theology of the Jehovah's Witness?
Typically they argue that Jesus did not raise physically from the dead.

No, I have never been a Jehovah's Witness, nor do I share their beliefs.
I am a Baha'i, and the following is what I believe about the resurrection.

“Therefore, we say that the meaning of Christ’s resurrection is as follows: the disciples were troubled and agitated after the martyrdom of Christ. The Reality of Christ, which signifies His teachings, His bounties, His perfections and His spiritual power, was hidden and concealed for two or three days after His martyrdom, and was not resplendent and manifest. No, rather it was lost, for the believers were few in number and were troubled and agitated. The Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body; and when after three days the disciples became assured and steadfast, and began to serve the Cause of Christ, and resolved to spread the divine teachings, putting His counsels into practice, and arising to serve Him, the Reality of Christ became resplendent and His bounty appeared; His religion found life; His teachings and His admonitions became evident and visible. In other words, the Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body until the life and the bounty of the Holy Spirit surrounded it."

Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 103-105

The victory of Christ's salvation is ALL-ENCOMPASING. It involves the spirit of man, the soul of man, the body of man, and eventually the total environment of man. It is complete and extensive covering every realm important to mankind.

And the God of peace Himself sanctify you wholly, and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Faithful is He who calls you, who also will do it. (1 Thess. 5:23,24)

The victory of Christ's salvation involves the spirit of man, which is the soul of man. I do not believe much of what Paul said about Jesus.

How Paul changed the course of Christianity

This is an excerpt from the book entitled The Light Shineth in Darkness, Studies in revelation after Christ by Udo Schaefer. This section explains how Paul changed the Christianity of Jesus. It is important to note that the views expressed by this author reflect his individual perspective and...

www.religiousforums.com

For the anxious watching of the creation eagerly awaits the revelation of the sons of God.
For the creation was made subject to vanity, not of its own will, but because of Him who subjected it,

In hope that the creation itself will also be freed from the slavery of corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
For we know that the whole creation groans together and travails in pain together until now.

And not only so, but we ourselves also, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan in ourselves, eagerly awaiting sonship, the redemption of our body. (Rom. 8:19-23)

If you want to post to me I suggest that you don't quote Paul. I find him detestable for ruining what Christianity could have been.

That refers to the physical as well. Martha expected her brother to physically arise in the last day.
Jesus did not contradict her. He pointed instead to Himself saying He was the power of resurrection in every way. Ie. "Martha, you're looking at the resurrection. I AM the resurrection and the life."

John 11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

Jesus was referring to a spiritual resurrection, not a physical one.

You're trying to establish a false dichotomy. You are aiming for a EITHER spiritual OR physical.
I have shown you His salvation is complete (1 Thess. 5:23) - "spirit and soul and body".

I do not adhere to everything that Paul says.
Salvation has nothing to do with the body, it has only to do with the soul, since the soul is the only entity that survives death.
The spirit is not separate from the soul. The spirit is the soul.

I am not believing something extra. You're not believing enough.
You're going through the pages of the Bible to pick and choose what you want.

It's far better to take everything end and not sift out according to some preconceived prejudice.
The best way to read the Bible is to do so without partiality to your desired philosophy.

I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus and the chosen angels that you keep these things without prejudice, doing nothing by way of partiality. (1 Tim. 5:21)

You keep quoting Paul and I told you I do not believe much of what Paul said about Jesus.

Truly, truly, I say to you, An hour is coming, and it is now, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. (John 5:25)

Then Jesus extends it to the physically dead in the tombs in His reiteration.

Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming in which all in the tombs will hear His voice
And will come forth: those who have done good, to the resurrection of life; and those who have practiced evil, to the resurrection of judgment. (vs. 28,29)

So BOTH the spiritually dead will be made alive.
And the physically dead "in the tombs" will be resurrected.

Believe whatever you want to believe but I believe it is hogwash. Nothing could be more ridiculous that physical bodies rising from graves.
That would serve absolutely no purpose which is why God would have no part of it.

I see no reason for us to continue to discuss this matter.

 

[Trailblazer]

As I remarked previously, you couldn't renew a dog license with evidence of that abysmal quality.

 

[Jimmy]

1. Resurrection is logically impossible. You're not dead until the failure of your body's life support systems is irreversible. If they're not only reversible but reversed, you're not dead and you haven't been dead.

2. Accordingly, resurrection stories as purported real events have zero credibility.

3. There are six accounts of the resurrection in the NT ─ Paul's brief mention of the late Jesus appearing to "the 500"; the accounts in Mark, Matthew, Luke and John; and the brief mention in Acts 1.

None of the accounts is by an eyewitness. None is independent. None is contemporary within two decades (Paul) or four or more decades (the gospel accounts).

And the NT accounts disagree with each other in many major ways. More details here >Historical Case for the Resurrection of Jesus<.

As I remarked previously, you couldn't renew a dog license with evidence of that abysmal quality.

I don’t believe anybody rose from the grave, either literally. I’m not even Christian and I don’t believe in Jesus. But I do believe that there is one man that comes back from the dead along with a new existence and that’s me in 1979. Well, I don’t really come back from the dead per se, but I am the one who has conquered death. Rock on dogs!

 

[Feedmysheep]

Yes you do tend to be verbose and since I see that there are more posts from you after this one I am going to have to try to answer in brief.

I cannot argue with the need to be born again since the same concept exists in my religion.

John 3:5-7 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

“Incline your ears to the sweet melody of this Prisoner. Arise, and lift up your voices, that haply they that are fast asleep may be awakened. Say: O ye who are as dead! The Hand of Divine bounty proffereth unto you the Water of Life. Hasten and drink your fill. Whoso hath been re-born in this Day, shall never die; whoso remaineth dead, shall never live.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Page 213

It has been a long time since I conversed with a Baha'i. I haven't spoken with a Baha'i since the
early 1980s. Thanks for unfurling the flag there. My God is the man Jesus.

So you consider the teaching of Bahá'u'lláh as built upon words of Muhammed who in turn thought he was a continuation of the mission of Jesus - another final . . . final . . . FINAL messenger of God.

Why do you need to refer to the Gospel of John at all?

“O My servants! Whoso hath tasted of this Fountain hath attained unto everlasting Life, and whoso hath refused to drink therefrom is even as the dead.”
(Gleanings, p.169)

I agree that sin creates a barrier between man and God

Yes it does without a doubt.
I believe that God made His Son sin on the cross on our behalf - judging sin that we might become
the righteousness of God in Him.

Him who did not know sin He made sin on our behalf that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. (2 Cor. 5:21)

This is beyond just showing a sinless way. This is beyond teaching a righteous path.
This is carrying up our sins in His body on the tree that God's judgment fell on Him.
And we might become in Him the very righteousness of God.

Who Himself bore up our sins in His body on the tree, in order that we, having died to sins, might live to righteousness; by whose bruise you were healed. ( 1 Pet. 2:2)

AI Overview
Learn more…
The Baháʼí Faith teaches that sin is disobeying God and that it separates a person from God. Some examples of sins in the Baháʼí Faith include: Anger, Jealousy, Hypocrisy, Prejudice, and Not following Baháʼí laws.

I believe that the way to avoid sin is by obeying God's teachings and laws.

I believe the New Testament that God dispenses the sinless one into our being.
[T]he last Adam became a life giving Spirit. (1 Cor. 15:45)

It is good we have a forum on which we can converse - comparing notes.
Christ Himself in His form as the divine life imparting Spirit joins to the receiver of Christ.

He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit. (1 Cor. 6:17)

In this Spirit is the killing power to terminate the sinning nature nullifying it.
And in this Spirit is the regenerating power to impart God Himself in Christ to saturate, permeate, and fill our whole being.

Even He gives this divine life to our mortal body.

And if the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you. (Rom. 8:11)

Let me say it again that the full salvation is the dispensing of the Triune God into our being to
saturate from the center to the circumference of man swallowing up the entire tripartite man in life "wholly." That is that we be sanctified complete - spirit and soul and body. (1 Thess. 5:23)

 

[Feedmysheep]

There is no such thing as a glorified body. There are only two kinds of bodies, physical bodies and spiritual bodies.

Now I just noticed your desire not to continue talking with me. So be it.
But for those beside you who may wish to see my response, I'll write.

A "glorified body" is an appropriate phrase to describe the NT's promise that th believers' body
must be conformed by Christ "to the body of His glory."

Who will transfigure the body of our humiliation to be conformed to the body of His glory, according to His operation by which He is able even to subject all things to Himself. (Phil. 3:21)

TB doesn't like the Apostle Paul. But the Apostle John also said "We will be like Him for we will see Him even as He is."

Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not yet been manifested what we will be. We know that if He is manifested, we will be like Him because we will see Him even as He is. (1 John 3:2)

35 But someone may ask, “How will the dead be raised? What kind of bodies will they have?”
40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies. 41 The sun has one kind of glory, while the moon and stars each have another kind. And even the stars differ from each other in their glory.

We have ground to speak of a "glorified body" because of our body being "conformed to the body of His glory". And First Corinthians which Trailblazer refers to speaks plainly about bodies which differ in glory. I don't know how he misses this.

There is another glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.
So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption;
It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory;

Since Paul (whom Trailblazer can't stand yet quotes selectively) says that resurrected body is "raised in glory" it is entirely logical that Christians refer to that as "a glorified body."

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

Paul ruined the Christian gospel according to Trailblazer's view. Yet he finds him handy to quote
when he wants to his Baha'i beliefs.

It is also appropriate for Christians to refer to a transformed body as not only a spiritual body but
a glorfied body.

All these are only stories and there is no reason to believe they are true stories.

I disagree. There is good reason to believe the writer knew what he was talking about.
I mean he went from a fierce persecutor to a New Testament writing apostle precisely because
he was met on the road to Damascus by the glorified Jesus.

But you are free to believe them if you want to.

That has a kind of gracious sound to it.

Stories men wrote who were not even eyewitnesses do not constitute infallible proofs.

Matthew, John, Peter were eyewitnesses. Mark was an assistant to Peter. Luke the physician was
a traveling companion to Paul and did journalistic historical research on the events.

Here Peter says they were eyewitnesses to Christ's transfiguration on the mountain.

For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we became eyewitnesses of that One’s majesty.

For He received from God the Father honor and glory, a voice such as this being borne to Him by the magnificent glory: This is My Son, My Beloved, in whom I delight.

And this voice we heard being borne out of heaven while we were with Him in the holy mountain. (2 Pet. 1:16-18)

God's feet will never stand on earth, nor will the feet of Jesus.

I am a believer. My eternal destiny is based on the truthfulness of this prophecy.
So the second coming to that same spot from which Jesus ascended is a big part of my faith.

And while they were looking intently into heaven as He went, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them, Who also said, Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you beheld Him going into heaven. (Acts 1:10,11)

I believe Zachariah's prophecy of God's feet standing again from where Christ ascended - the Mount of Olives. Paul was a faithful pioneering apostle to pass on these things.

. . . you turned to God from the idols to serve a living and true God
And await His Son from the heavens, whom He raised from the dead, Jesus, who delivers us from the wrath which is coming. (1 Thess. 1:10b,11)

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

This does not establish Traiblazers preferecian false dichotomy.
Because Christ is dispensed into His believers as divine life is not VERSES His transfiguring also
their raptured / resurrected bodies.

John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.

This does not establish Trailblazers false dichotomy either.
We Christians do not believe something extra. Trailblazer does not believe enough.
He has selected what he finds bulsters up what Baha'i has taught him.

No one trying to establish a new religion dare risk ignoring the words and life of Christ.
So you'll find Trailblazer quoting Jesus to add credence to his "prophet" who he believes
has superceded the Son of God.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

None of which establishes Trailblazer's lopsided false dichotomy - i.e. "Because of this therefore not the other." [paraphrase]

The rapture belief has no biblical basis.

The rapture that you don't believe in is probably not the rapture that I see in the Bible.
I would first have to know WHAT rapture TB says has no biblical basis.
No need to defend a belief which I don't have.

The rapture I believe in has a biblical bases. Not a pop basis but a biblical basis it has.

No, I have never been a Jehovah's Witness, nor do I share their beliefs.
I am a Baha'i, and the following is what I believe about the resurrection.

But like JWs and ancient Docetist Gnostics you cannot take a physical resurrection of the Son of God.
The earliest Christian aplogetics we know of seems to be a debate against certain gnostics. These gnostics
did not say Jesus never lived. But they did say He was too good to have been material. He must have been a phantasm.

Your theology is similar. You cannot bring yourselves to believe the NT that His physical body died and rose. But John says they handled with their hands this embodiment of eternal life. And I think John meant
AFTER the resurrection.

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we beheld and our hands handled, concerning the Word of life

(And the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and report to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us);

That which we have seen and heard we report also to you that you also may have fellowship with us, and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. (1 John 1:1-3)

 

[Trailblazer]

It has been a long time since I conversed with a Baha'i. I haven't spoken with a Baha'i since the
early 1980s. Thanks for unfurling the flag there. My God is the man Jesus.

My God is the one true God who was revealed by the messengers of God.

“O people! I swear by the one true God! This is the Ocean out of which all seas have proceeded, and with which every one of them will ultimately be united. From Him all the Suns have been generated, and unto Him they will all return. Through His potency the Trees of Divine Revelation have yielded their fruits, every one of which hath been sent down in the form of a Prophet, bearing a Message to God’s creatures in each of the worlds whose number God, alone, in His all-encompassing Knowledge, can reckon. This He hath accomplished through the agency of but one Letter of His Word, revealed by His Pen—a Pen moved by His directing Finger—His Finger itself sustained by the power of God’s Truth.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Page 104

So you consider the teaching of Bahá'u'lláh as built upon words of Muhammed who in turn thought he was a continuation of the mission of Jesus - another final . . . final . . . FINAL messenger of God.

The teachings of Baha'u'llah are not built upon words of Muhammad. Baha'u'llah received His own Revelation from God and that is what His teachings are based upon.

Why do you need to refer to the Gospel of John at all?

I don't need to, but I refer to it to show how similar what Jesus said is to what Baha'u'llah said.
I also refer to it to show how Jesus predicted and promised the coming of Baha'u'llah.

 

[Trailblazer]

Now I just noticed your desire not to continue talking with me. So be it.

That is not what I said. I said "I see no reason for us to continue to discuss this matter."
The reason I said I see no reason to continue discussing the matters we were discussing is because you have your beliefs and I have mine and never the twain shall meet.

I am a believer. My eternal destiny is based on the truthfulness of this prophecy.

I am a believer. My eternal destiny is based on the truthfulness what Baha'u'llah wrote. Period, end of story.

No one trying to establish a new religion dare risk ignoring the words and life of Christ.
So you'll find Trailblazer quoting Jesus to add credence to his "prophet" who he believes
has superceded the Son of God.

No, I do not quote the words of Christ to lend credence to Baha'u'llah because the Revelation of Baha'u'llah stands on its own merit.

Baha'u'llah never claimed to supersede Jesus Christ. He only ever claimed to be the latest messenger of God in a series of messengers that have been sent by God.

Baha’u’llah warns us never to make any distinction between any of the Messengers of God (the Manifestations of the Cause of God) because they all arise to proclaim the same religion, since there is only one eternal religion of God. Baha’u’llah wrote that the works and acts of all the Messengers of God were all ordained by God, a reflection of His Will and Purpose, meaning that all the religions are equally true and all the Messengers are equal in stature.

"Beware, O believers in the Unity of God, lest ye be tempted to make any distinction between any of the Manifestations of His Cause, or to discriminate against the signs that have accompanied and proclaimed their Revelation. This indeed is the true meaning of Divine Unity, if ye be of them that apprehend and believe this truth. Be ye assured, moreover, that the works and acts of each and every one of these Manifestations of God, nay whatever pertaineth unto them, and whatsoever they may manifest in the future, are all ordained by God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Whoso maketh the slightest possible difference between their persons, their words, their messages, their acts and manners, hath indeed disbelieved in God, hath repudiated His signs, and betrayed the Cause of His Messengers.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 59-60

Your theology is similar. You cannot bring yourselves to believe the NT that His physical body died and rose.

This is not about my belief. I could not even care less whether the physical body of Jesus died and rose, because even it it did it would serve absolutely no purpose whatsoever. The only purpose it serves is to make Christians believe that their religion is superior to all others.

 

[viole]

Feel free to share your thoughts.

Ask the 12. Actually the 11. They also did not believe it, despite having spent a lot of time with Jesus, and witnessing resurrections bonanza during Jesus execution.

So, if a bunch of people used to see resurrections as being in the mainstream doubted Jesus own resurrection, you can imagine why we find it so implausible.

Ciao

- viole

 

[BrokenBread]

Ask the 12. Actually the 11. They also did not believe it, despite having spent a lot of time with Jesus, and witnessing resurrections bonanza during Jesus execution.

So, if a bunch of people used to see resurrections as being in the mainstream doubted Jesus own resurrection, you can imagine why we find it so implausible.

Ciao

- viole

So what do you think would cause this bunch of non-believing scaredy cats to suddenly, as a group, become emboldened to the point they would be willing to be executed for testifying to the resurrection and His Divinity ?
Additionally it was not just the apostles , Jesus's own brother James as well as other family members who during Jesus's 3 year ministry believed that He had gone insane, only recognized his own brother as the Messiah after He had been crucified .
Why ?
Jesus's brother James also being executed for refusing to deny the resurrection.
What cannot be denied is that something much more powerful than a rotting corpse made a life changing impression on this timid, non-believing collective that caused them all to accept execution rather than deny the resurrection.

Mark 3:20–21 — The New International Version (NIV)​

20 Then Jesus entered a house, and again a crowd gathered, so that he and his disciples were not even able to eat.
21 When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, “He is out of his mind.”

 

[River Sea]

@GoodAttention

Why was Mary unable to live in a matriarchal environment, unlike Elizabeth? Was Joseph an extreme patriarchal? Because Joseph couldn't understand Mary's physical needs. How come?

How come Elizabeth didn't have to travel to Bethlehem and Mary had to

Which woman was able to be more matriarchal, I wonder? Is it Elizabeth, Mary, or both? Because Joseph wasn't protecting Mary and allowing Mary to stay home, was it because of patriarchal reasons, yet how come Elizabeth's husband protected Elizabeth as able to stay home? Was it more because of matriarchal reasons?

Did Joseph not know how to reason through matriarchal behavior compared to Elizabeth's husband?

Another reason why it confuses me about Jesus? Jesus was born in the spring, showing referencing taking care of the census that will make sure to include a full year.

Got to get to Bethlehem to take care of that census, which will not happen in December because it won't include that year. Women weren't needed to fill out the census, yet Joseph put Mary in danger without letting Mary stay home. How come?

 

[viole]

So what do you think would cause this bunch of non-believing scaredy cats to suddenly, as a group, become emboldened to the point they would be willing to be executed for testifying to the resurrection and His Divinity ?

I know of a congregation of people who sacrificed their live, and the lives of their children, because they were sure their souls would have been picked up by a starship hiding behind a comet.

All you need to do is to set the delusion level sufficiently high, and everyone would die for that.

Additionally it was not just the apostles , Jesus's own brother James as well as other family members who during Jesus's 3 year ministry believed that He had gone insane, only recognized his own brother as the Messiah after He had been crucified .
Why ?

According to the narrative, those people did not immediately believe Jesus resurrected. They needed hard evidence, like Jesus Himself showing up.

And that is the problem. I actually think that the people who made that up, did not think too much about it. As it is usually the case: they aimed at emotions, rather than cold reason. For hope springs eternal. And can be used to fool anyone needing it.

Consider this. You are one of the 12. You spent all your time following Jesus in His ministry. And Jesus told you, that He will be betrayed, executed, and that He will return after three days.

You also know that Jesus performed amazing miracles which proved His divinity, and He also predicted with absolute precision what will happen when He is arrested. Including Peter refuting to recognizing Him, and all that.

Then you go to His execution. What happens there? Amazing things. Earthquakes, solar eclipse, and, last but not least, a massive resurrection of saints bursting from their graves to roam around town. Which should make resurrections something belonging to the mainstream.

And what do you do? You turn into a rational skeptic. You do not even consider His prediction that He will return after three days.

Really?

I don't know you. But if I have been that apostle, and I experienced all that, I would have hired the CNN, or its Roman Empire equivalent, to set the cameras and catch Jesus resurrection in real time.

Don't you see how ridiculous that narrative is?

Ciao

- viole

 

[River Sea]

It has been a long time since I conversed with a Baha'i. I haven't spoken with a Baha'i since the
early 1980s. Thanks for unfurling the flag there. My God is the man Jesus.

So you consider the teaching of Bahá'u'lláh as built upon words of Muhammed who in turn thought he was a continuation of the mission of Jesus - another final . . . final . . . FINAL messenger of God.

Why do you need to refer to the Gospel of John at all?


Yes it does without a doubt.
I believe that God made His Son sin on the cross on our behalf - judging sin that we might become
the righteousness of God in Him.

Him who did not know sin He made sin on our behalf that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. (2 Cor. 5:21)

This is beyond just showing a sinless way. This is beyond teaching a righteous path.
This is carrying up our sins in His body on the tree that God's judgment fell on Him.
And we might become in Him the very righteousness of God.

Who Himself bore up our sins in His body on the tree, in order that we, having died to sins, might live to righteousness; by whose bruise you were healed. ( 1 Pet. 2:2)


I believe the New Testament that God dispenses the sinless one into our being.
[T]he last Adam became a life giving Spirit. (1 Cor. 15:45)

It is good we have a forum on which we can converse - comparing notes.
Christ Himself in His form as the divine life imparting Spirit joins to the receiver of Christ.

He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit. (1 Cor. 6:17)

In this Spirit is the killing power to terminate the sinning nature nullifying it.
And in this Spirit is the regenerating power to impart God Himself in Christ to saturate, permeate, and fill our whole being.

Even He gives this divine life to our mortal body.

And if the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you. (Rom. 8:11)

Let me say it again that the full salvation is the dispensing of the Triune God into our being to
saturate from the center to the circumference of man swallowing up the entire tripartite man in life "wholly." That is that we be sanctified complete - spirit and soul and body. (1 Thess. 5:23)

@Feedmysheep

From your video:
What does that mean, begotten son? What is begotten?

Moses was Krishna from Indus Valley ancient India who was born in 1525 BC and led the Yadavas at 1445 BC out of Indus Valley ancient India (Exodus) because of a drought.

The Yadavas, who are the Hebrews, traveled to Isha, or Israel, (modern name.)

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala
So how would the word begotten be in the vocabulary with the Yadavas tribe? What is begotten?

@GoodAttention, what is the word begotten in Tamil?

 

[Jimmy]

I know of a congregation of people who sacrificed their live, and the lives of their children, because they were sure their souls would have been picked up by a starship hiding behind a comet.

All you need to do is to set the delusion level sufficiently high, and everyone would die for that.


According to the narrative, those people did not immediately believe Jesus resurrected. They needed hard evidence, like Jesus Himself showing up.

And that is the problem. I actually think that the people who made that up, did not think too much about it. As it is usually the case: they aimed at emotions, rather than cold reason. For hope springs eternal. And can be used to fool anyone needing it.

Consider this. You are one of the 12. You spent all your time following Jesus in His ministry. And Jesus told you, that He will be betrayed, executed, and that He will return after three days.

You also know that Jesus performed amazing miracles which proved His divinity, and He also predicted with absolute precision what will happen when He is arrested. Including Peter refuting to recognizing Him, and all that.

Then you go to His execution. What happens there? Amazing things. Earthquakes, solar eclipse, and, last but not least, a massive resurrection of saints bursting from their graves to roam around town. Which should make resurrections something belonging to the mainstream.

And what do you do? You turn into a rational skeptic. You do not even consider His prediction that He will return after three days.

Really?

I don't know you. But if I have been that apostle, and I experienced all that, I would have hired the CNN, or its Roman Empire equivalent, to set the cameras and catch Jesus resurrection in real time.

Don't you see how ridiculous that narrative is?

Ciao

- viole

Are you sure the story of Jesus is about a man who lived 2000 years ago?

 

[ppp]

Are you sure the story of Jesus is about a man who lived 2000 years ago?

That is what the story is about, whether or not there was a Jesus.

 

[Jimmy]

That is what the story is about, whether or not there was a Jesus.

Are you certain?

 

[ppp]

Are you certain?

About what?

 

[Subduction Zone]

There is no such thing as a glorified body.

Hah! Speak for yourself.

 

[Jimmy]

About what?

That the story of Jesus is about a man who lived 2000 years ago?

 

[ppp]

That the story of Jesus is about a man who lived 2000 years ago?

I don't why you think there is a "the" story. There are many stories about Jesus. And many interpretations of stories about Jesus. Tens of thousands. If you have one that is not about a man who lived 10 thousand years ago...shrug.

 

[Jimmy]

I don't why you think there is a "the" story. There are many stories about Jesus. And many interpretations of stories about Jesus. Tens of thousands. If you have one that is not about a man who lived 10 thousand years ago...shrug.

I wasn’t aware of the tens of thousands of stories about Jesus