Why Dont Christians Accept the Book of Mormon as Valid?

[madhatter85]

Christ had to die,

Romans 5:

6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

God is not a bad cop, by killing someone he is callign thier spirit home, It is up to him to end our mortal existence.

 

[sojourner]

Even God is subject to the demands of Justice. HE is a Just God, it says so all over the Bible.
Isaiah 9:

Rom. 2:

Romans 3:

Hebrews 2:

Hebrew 10:


Or how about this one?

This reaffirms my statement that we belong to christ.

Here's more on the atonement:
Isaiah 53:

Hebrews 10:


Calling yourself a Christian and not believeing in the Atonement is a contradiction.

See, this is what I'm saying. Look at your last sentence. This is the kind of judgmental crap I had to put up with from your brethren in my own home. I don't go round calling your Christian status into question -- no matter what you choose to believe. I can pull out just as much Biblical reference to refute the Substitutionary Atonement, but I'm not going to waste my time.

This sort of attitude frankly makes me sick, and that's why I'm not a fundamentalist or a Mormon. If this is what the BOM promotes, I just don't have any use for it.

 

[roli]

Why don't Christians accept the Book of Mormon to be true? It testifys of Christ our Savior, as the Messiah, the Great Mediator. And it's a solid Book, it has substance.

You don't believe there is any way that Christ would have appeared to his "Sheep of another fold" (mentioned in the bible) in the americas after his ressurection. Or that Both God and Christ would appear to a modern day prophet.

Yet, they believe that God, or even the "Mother Mary" would speak to 6 old women in Bosnia?

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on why you think the way you do.

For one, it is not truth,at least when compared with God 's word,although they say it works hand and hand with the scriptures, nothing is further from the truth.
Jesus speaks explictly about false doctrines,false prphets etc.
Although Mormons show to be followers of Christ their book of mormon,man made doctrines and their practices speak contrary to that fact.
They often have the bible in their pack sack ,but seem reluctant to carry it in hand and or pull it out.Why is that,
It seems whenthey start talking with someone who does'nt have much knowledge in the scriptures ,they are more than willing to pull out the bible, but when they are confronted with one who knows the word ,they are less likely and do so with apprehension and only if asked or challenged.
Usually when a christian starts to share or compare scripture or give contextual interpretation ,the mormons tend to exclaim,oh,! we have an appointment. Ironic to say the least

By the way it's interesting that you distinguished Christians from mormons, are you saying they are different,maybe that is the next question.

If you could honestly share with me, what the theological and doctrinal differences are in point form ,from your perspective, it would be rather interesting, but it seems to me, most mormons are not truly transparent and forthright when it comes to sharing these differences.
What really do Mormons beleive regarding Jesus Satan ,God,sin ,salvation, judgment,Holy Spirit etc.
I find it is always so very difficult for Mormons to be honest in the midst of a dialogue with a Christian who is knowledgable in the word.

 

[roli]

There are quite a number of things you don't realize about us. For one, our attitude towards people outside of our faith is very different from that of most Christians. We don't condemn others for believing differently than we do, and we believe that God loves all of His children equally, whether they be LDS, non-LDS Christians, Buddhists, Muslims, Pagans, Hindus or anything else. I have a feeling that if you really made an effort to understand our point of view, instead of just trying to tear it down, you might actually find out that we are, for the most part, pretty nice people.

it's interesting that 86% of the world's population say they are christian, how can that be when what they believe,how they live and what they practice are contrary to everything concerning Christ's teaching , when you know the truth of God's word it's very easy to disprove and expose false believers ,teachers and doctrine by aligning these other doctrines up with the scriptures.

Please could you or any other mormon believers share with me accurately and honestly your full defintion and belief of Jesus ,God , Holy Spirit,sin salvation ,hell ,retribution.

I know these are'nt things most mormons want to discuss but this will help us understand why Christians don't beleive the Book of Mormon and what sets them in the catagory of false teachers.

 

[silvermoon383]

I'd really like to see where you got that 86% from. If I were to assume a current world population of 6.3 billion (probably a little low I admit), then that totals out to 5,418,000,000 Christians.

Seems a little too high from what I know about world religion demographics.

 

[madhatter85]

For one, it is not truth,at least when compared with God 's word,although they say it works hand and hand with the scriptures, nothing is further from the truth.

Um, it is God's word, and nothing in the Book of Mormon conflicts with the bible.

Jesus speaks explictly about false doctrines,false prphets etc.
Although Mormons show to be followers of Christ their book of mormon,man made doctrines and their practices speak contrary to that fact.

Yes he does speak about false prophets, but our doctrines are not man-made doctrines, it is christ's doctrine. we didn't change or alter anything.

They often have the bible in their pack sack ,but seem reluctant to carry it in hand and or pull it out.Why is that,

Actually when i debate christians, I try to use as many biblical refrences as i can because that is the onyl common ground to them. The Bible as long as it is translated correctly is the word of God.

It seems whenthey start talking with someone who does'nt have much knowledge in the scriptures ,they are more than willing to pull out the bible, but when they are confronted with one who knows the word ,they are less likely and do so with apprehension and only if asked or challenged.

This is wrong, I never feel aprehensive towards a good debate, because i know where to find things in the bible to get my point across

Usually when a christian starts to share or compare scripture or give contextual interpretation ,the mormons tend to exclaim,oh,! we have an appointment. Ironic to say the least

To those who have weak testimonies, yes, they don't want to hear YOUR interpitation of anything. most don't even want to debate.

By the way it's interesting that you distinguished Christians from mormons, are you saying they are different,maybe that is the next question.

Mormons are Christians

If you could honestly share with me, what the theological and doctrinal differences are in point form ,from your perspective, it would be rather interesting, but it seems to me, most mormons are not truly transparent and forthright when it comes to sharing these differences.

I'll tell you exactly what we believe any time

What really do Mormons beleive regarding Jesus Satan ,God,sin ,salvation, judgment,Holy Spirit etc.I find it is always so very difficult for Mormons to be honest in the midst of a dialogue with a Christian who is knowledgable in the word.

you met some wierd mormons then. It's plain and simple.

want to start a topic and i'll gladly share with you everything there is to know. Mormons do not feel we are to hold back the knowledge we have, it is there for you, for everyone on the earth to either accept or reject. everyone has thier free-agency.

 

[madhatter85]

Also, it has been my experience that most christians don't understand why it is they do what they do, they have holes in thier ideas, and doctrines that don't line up with each other. they talk in circles and try to use a thesaurus to find big fancy words hoping to confuse you and try to sound smarter than you, when in reality, all they can do is huff and puff but my house still stands.

 

[Bishka]

Also, it has been my experience that most christians don't understand why it is they do what they do, they have holes in thier ideas, and doctrines that don't line up with each other. they talk in circles and try to use a thesaurus to find big fancy words hoping to confuse you and try to sound smarter than you, when in reality, all they can do is huff and puff but my house still stands.

And you complain about everyone being Anti-Mormon? :sarcastic

 

[Katzpur]

This sort of attitude frankly makes me sick, and that's why I'm not a fundamentalist or a Mormon. If this is what the BOM promotes, I just don't have any use for it.

Surely you've been around RF long enough to know that this attitude is not typical of most Latter-day Saints. You'll find self-righteous people in every religion, and I'm sure you know that.

 

[Katzpur]

Please could you or any other mormon believers share with me accurately and honestly your full defintion and belief of Jesus ,God , Holy Spirit,sin salvation ,hell ,retribution.

First of all, Roli, it seems to me as if you think you already know what we believe about Jesus, God, the Holy Spirit, sin, salvation, hell and retribution. I'm saying that because you appear to have already made up your mind that our doctrines on these subjects are false. You know as well as I do that it would be impossible for me or anyone else to describe each of these doctrines in depth in this thread. That would require that I cut and paste most of the Bible. I'll make you a deal, though. If you will make a statement about each of these things that describes your beliefs, I will respond with something of equal length about mine. Or, if you'd prefer, we can discuss this in a one-on-one debate entitled something like "Mormon Doctrines Contradict True Scripture" or "The Book of Mormon Contradicts the Bible." That way, we could go into each of them in some detail without derailing this thread.

I know these are'nt things most mormons want to discuss but this will help us understand why Christians don't beleive the Book of Mormon and what sets them in the catagory of false teachers.

I'm not sure what you mean by this statement. Why wouldn't we want to accurately and honestly explain what we believe? I would like nothing more than to be given that opportunity. I just don't think that this particular thread is the place to do that.

 

[nutshell]

Why don't Christians accept the Book of Mormon as valid?

I don't know.

Why don't Mormons accept Madhatter as valid?

 

[Katzpur]

Why don't Mormons accept Madhatter as valid?

I know! I know! Pick me! Pick me!

 

[Scott1]

How sad.
"Master! Master! We saw someone casting out demons in your name, but he wasn't one of us, so we rebuked him!"...

Oh cut it out.... it's freakin common sense.

Just use the analogy of the game of baseball.... a game that has an established set of rules and guidelines about the proper way to play the game.

All of a sudden, a team (we'll call them the Latter Day Red Sox) decides that they want to play baseball.... except they use a basketball.... a hockey stick.... and run around the bases backwards.

"It's baseball" say the LD Sox......

Ummm.... no, actually, it's not.

"Yes it is..... our prophet came up with a NEW rule book for baseball.... it's a companion to Major league baseball"

Call it what you want gang.... but that ain't baseball.

"HOW DARE YOU! It's so sad that your bigoted views can't accept this is true baseball!"

Ummmm.... I respect your right to play whatever game you'd like, but we've been playing baseball for a long time... we've got a rule book(Bible).... hall of fame(Saints)... a pretty cool commisioner (Pope)...the whole deal. I think we have the right to say what is and what isn't baseball.

"ARROGANT BIGOTS!"

 

[Katzpur]

"ARROGANT BIGOTS!"

Hi, Scott. Was that me you were calling an arrogant bigot?

 

[Scott1]

Hi, Scott. Was that me you were calling an arrogant bigot?

Did you read the post?

I color coded it now for ease of reading.....blue= LDS RED SOX.... ok?

You do recognize that it's an analogy... right.... there is no real Mormon "baseball" league.... right?

 

[Katzpur]

Did you read the post?

I color coded it now for ease of reading.....blue= LDS RED SOX.... ok?

You do recognize that it's an analogy... right.... there is no real Mormon "baseball" league.... right?

Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. So it's me calling you an arrogant bigot? Why would I do that? I thought we were friends.

 

[Scott1]

Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. So it's me calling you an arrogant bigot? Why would I do that? I thought we were friends.

Hehe..... that's so sickenly cute it almost worked!

I've been called much worse by your LDS "friends".... but this isn't about that.... it's about the common sense notion that you can't change the "rules" 2000 years later and expect no one to object.... simple really.

 

[Katzpur]

Hehe..... that's so sickenly cute it almost worked!

Sorry. I guess I mistook you for someone I knew. My mistake.

 

[Scott1]

Sorry. I guess I mistook you for someone I knew. My mistake.

Hehe... keep trying... still not working.... you can stop trying to make it personal and respond to the point I was trying to make.... the poor me stuff does not suit you my friend.

 

[love]

Why don't Christians accept the Book of Mormon to be true? It testifys of Christ our Savior, as the Messiah, the Great Mediator. And it's a solid Book, it has substance.

You don't believe there is any way that Christ would have appeared to his "Sheep of another fold" (mentioned in the bible) in the americas after his ressurection. Or that Both God and Christ would appear to a modern day prophet.

Yet, they believe that God, or even the "Mother Mary" would speak to 6 old women in Bosnia?

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on why you think the way you do.

I thought Mormons were Christians.
I don't think you meant Christians can't be Mormons.