Why Dont Christians Accept the Book of Mormon as Valid?

[Katzpur]

Are you saying this is not part of the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ?

Nobody said that, Francine.

And if it is not part of the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ, why do I have a pamphlet called The Plan of Salvation with the doctrine revealed in there?

I don't know. I guess it's because you haven't tossed it into the trash yet. Not all of our doctrines are spelled out in the Book of Mormon. If you would care to point out where in that pamphet it says the Nephites were taught about the Pre-existance, perhaps we could discuss it further. I'm not saying they weren't, by the way. I just don't know where in the Book of Mormon you're referring to.

 

[tomspug]

Would it be easier to believe the Book of Mormon if it didn't share any of the same words?:sarcastic



But many of the quotes are NOT the exact same. Some are distinctly different, in ways that Joseph Smith could not have understood at the time. How would he know he was repairing a chiasmus when he put in the part about pleasant pictures and ships of Tarshish? Why would he copy large sections verbatim, and THEN arbitrarily add things that didn't have doctrinal significance, but that repaired poetic symmetry?

Pointing out the verbatim parts is a cherry-picking fallacy.

It's not about believability. None of the books in the Bible were written with the intention of trying to convince people they were authoritative. That's what it seems like the Book of Mormon is trying to do by putting these word-for-word passages from the Bible.

From a literary standpoint, this is actually plagiarism. Notice how, in the Bible, quotes from other books are put in quotation marks and usually sourced. The only instance I can think of a Biblical repetition of this sort is the four Gospels, which were all quoting Jesus anyways, so that's not actually plagiarism, simply proper transcription of events.

As far as the second part of your comment, you'd have to quote the passages you're referring to specifically, since I'm not altogether familiar with them. Could you give some direct examples?

 

[tomspug]

I think Francine's point is that, if Jesus taught the Nephites about pre-existance, you would assume that Jesus taught that to his disciples as well.

 

[kadzbiz]

Why don't Christians accept the Book of Mormon to be true? It testifys of Christ our Savior, as the Messiah, the Great Mediator. And it's a solid Book, it has substance.........

I've obviously come into this thread VERY late, but I just wanted to paste this link which would seem to answer the OP. I apologise if it has already been mentioned. It's the Youtube link of the documentary "The Bible vs The Book of Mormon."

 

[Francine]

I think Francine's point is that, if Jesus taught the Nephites about pre-existance, you would assume that Jesus taught that to his disciples as well.

If the doctrine of the pre-existence WAS taught to the Nephites by Jesus Christ, but is not in the Book of Mormon, then when Joseph Smith translated the golden plates he omitted the doctrine, thus removing a plain and precious thing from the Gospel of the Lamb, and requiring God to inspire Brigham Young to reintroduce the doctrine to the restored Church in 1857.

 

[Katzpur]

I've obviously come into this thread VERY late, but I just wanted to paste this link which would seem to answer the OP. I apologise if it has already been mentioned. It's the Youtube link of the documentary "The Bible vs The Book of Mormon."

My speakers aren't working right now, so it wouldn't do me any good to try to watch this video. However, I will say that given the fact that the video is produced by Living Hope Ministries, it's going to have a negative bias to it. Even the title -- The Bible vs The Book of Mormon -- implies that the two present opposing or contradictory views, when that is not the truth at all. They are the histories of entirely distinct civilizations but both teach that Jesus is the Christ.

 

[Katzpur]

From a literary standpoint, this is actually plagiarism.

That's absurd! It's only plagiarism if there is an intent to pass someone else's writings off as one's own. There is nowhere in the Book of Mormon where this is the case. That's flat out wrong!

 

[Katzpur]

If the doctrine of the pre-existence WAS taught to the Nephites by Jesus Christ, but is not in the Book of Mormon, then when Joseph Smith translated the golden plates he omitted the doctrine, thus removing a plain and precious thing from the Gospel of the Lamb, and requiring God to inspire Brigham Young to reintroduce the doctrine to the restored Church in 1857.

It's entirely possible that the Nephites didn't record everything Jesus taught them. His disciples in the Holy Land didn't. John 21:25 says, "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written."

 

[Bishka]

I think Francine's point is that, if Jesus taught the Nephites about pre-existance, you would assume that Jesus taught that to his disciples as well.

You would think that, wouldn't you?

Then again, we believed the Bible to be the word of God, as far as it is translated correctly. We believe many plain and precious truths were taken out of the Bible, so it makes complete sense to us that He could have told His disciples but it may have been taken out.

Do you see it from our viewpoint?

 

[kadzbiz]

My speakers aren't working right now, so it wouldn't do me any good to try to watch this video. However, I will say that given the fact that the video is produced by Living Hope Ministries, it's going to have a negative bias to it. Even the title -- The Bible vs The Book of Mormon -- implies that the two present opposing or contradictory views, when that is not the truth at all. They are the histories of entirely distinct civilizations but both teach that Jesus is the Christ.

Well, when you get your speakers working, watch it because there are many many points raised that don't sound biased to me (even if it was made from a biased point of view by those ministries) that require some pretty good answers. Now, you should already know my thoughts of the Bible, but at least a lot of its geographical, historical, literary records, flora/fauna, etc etc can be corroborated with plenty of evidence, whereas it appears the BOM cannot.

P.S. (edit) I would be happy to watch any doco that could provide credible evidence from recognised educated people of artifacts or a document trail, etc that would counter or answer any of the issues raised by the LHM doco.

 

[nutshell]

Now, you should already know my thoughts of the Bible, but at least a lot of its geographical, historical, literary records, flora/fauna, etc etc can be corroborated with plenty of evidence, whereas it appears the BOM cannot.

And therein lies the bias because much of these type of things can be corroborated in the BoM. Does it match the Bible - I don't think so. However, it's too extreme to say things in the Book of Mormon "cannot" be corroborated. Some things can and some things can't. That said, I'm not a literalist anyway.

 

[kadzbiz]

.... it's too extreme to say things in the Book of Mormon "cannot" be corroborated. Some things can and some things can't. That said, I'm not a literalist anyway.

But how can the BoM talk about things, like say, coinage when metallic coins wheren't used in any part of ancient America, or horses used by Nephite armies when there weren't any horses in America at that time, or the large cities built by the Nephites when there's no archeological evidence of them, or the use of some crops like wheat when there is no evidence of such things? The only document that would have some credibility are the gold plates and yet they're not available for people to see and judge for themselves as say the Dead Sea Scrolls are today.

 

[nutshell]

But how can the BoM talk about things, like say, coinage when metallic coins wheren't used in any part of ancient America, or horses used by Nephite armies when there weren't any horses in America at that time, or the large cities built by the Nephites when there's no archeological evidence of them, or the use of some crops like wheat when there is no evidence of such things? The only document that would have some credibility are the gold plates and yet they're not available for people to see and judge for themselves as say the Dead Sea Scrolls are today.

This is a perfect example of when evidence DOES exist. I'll see if I can dig it up. I believe DeepShadow has this stuff at the tip of his fingers, but it might take me some time.

 

[kadzbiz]

This is a perfect example of when evidence DOES exist. I'll see if I can dig it up. I believe DeepShadow has this stuff at the tip of his fingers, but it might take me some time.

More than happy to view what you present. Talking about digging up, why isn't the LSD church happy to have a archeological dig of the Hill Cumorah considering it would help confirm much of the events that the BoM depicts?

 

[nutshell]

Here's something from mormon apologists about "coinage"

Coins in the Book of Mormon » FAIR Blog

 

[nutshell]

More than happy to view what you present. Talking about digging up, why isn't the LSD church happy to have a archeological dig of the Hill Cumorah considering it would help confirm much of the events that the BoM depicts?

I think most educated LDS recognize the likely fact that such a dig will turn up nothing. There are differing theories regarding this.

Again, I'm not a literalist so it's hard for me to put up any strong arguments.

 

[kadzbiz]

Here's something from mormon apologists about "coinage"
Coins in the Book of Mormon » FAIR Blog

Interesting, but they talked about metal weights, which leads me to ask about metallurgy that must've been used for chariots etc, but again, there is no evidence of such metallurgical sites anywhere, are there?

I think most educated LDS recognize the likely fact that such a dig will turn up nothing. There are differing theories regarding this......

My first thought is, "maybe the battles didn't happen"?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Well, when you get your speakers working, watch it because there are many many points raised that don't sound biased to me (even if it was made from a biased point of view by those ministries) that require some pretty good answers. Now, you should already know my thoughts of the Bible, but at least a lot of its geographical, historical, literary records, flora/fauna, etc etc can be corroborated with plenty of evidence, whereas it appears the BOM cannot.

P.S. (edit) I would be happy to watch any doco that could provide credible evidence from recognised educated people of artifacts or a document trail, etc that would counter or answer any of the issues raised by the LHM doco.

Very interesting video. I watched the whole thing. It was very well done. I really appreciate the fact that credible souces were brought together to give information. I like the fact that archeologist were extremely knowledgeable in their field of study.

For some time now I have stayed out of forums that dealt with Mormonism or mormon content because I don't know enough to comment on their way of life. Like all other ways of life I have respect for them. I may not agree but to each his own.

I believe some questions do need answering though. Namely the lack of historical evidence as portrayed in the book of Morman. Again, I don't know very much about the book other than a couuple passages I have read and this video I have seen.

Kadzbiz thank you for the link. It was very insightful...........

 

[kadzbiz]

Very interesting video......credible souces were brought together to give information.......archeologist were extremely knowledgeable..... I don't know enough to comment on their way of life.......I don't know very much about the book other than a couuple passages I have read and this video I have seen.....Kadzbiz thank you for the link. It was very insightful...........

Thankyou. I feel the same way.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Thankyou. I feel the same way.

Additionally (DNA vs. The Book Of Mormon) is another great video they did. DNA doesn't lie......