Why Dont Christians Accept the Book of Mormon as Valid?

[Ghostkill221]

You said that only 3% of our bibles are the same. well for instance that verse in revelation was taken out so they still took something out of that book you say he was referring to so by your own words, you're screwed on that one. but after all since you certainly didn't write the book. I'll tell you what if you accept
that we were created by God the one and only god there is: Genesis NKJ,
that Jesus is the only son of God to ever exist and ever will exist: John 3:16 NKJ,
that all people are inherently evil if left to their own devices and will go to hell: romans 3:23 NKJ,
that Jesus died and came back to life Acts 1:22 NKJ,
and that only faith in him will get you to him, and nothing you do: Ephesians 2:8 NKJ
if you believe all that i'm completely Ok to call you Christian if you don't believe in Everything the bible says, you're not. because that's the definition. I cant pretend to know every thing about every version of LDS and if some of them believe all that then they are welcomed by me any time. the ones that don't however aren't Christians because to be Christian means to follow the bible every bit of it.
and as to the sneaking into the temple i lived in a neighborhood where we had very large drainage sewers one of the ends popped up in the side court of a Mormon temple sowhile we were being kids and crawling around in there one day after it had started some friends and i, decided to go eavesdrop outside the window. (at the time we thought it was a regular Christian church)
but the things i stated is what i heard. I would like to believe i took them out of context. but they have been reinforced by what several ex Mormon's have told me.
I'm not dumb and laughing at the ideals and opinions of others shows that you haven't taken what they say seriously so why should any one take what you say seriously?

 

[McBell]

*looks at thread location*


*bites tongue really really really hard*

 

[idea]

I believe in some of the Qur’an...

afterall...
Adam, Enoch, Noah, Heber, Shelah, Abraham, Lot, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Job, Jethro, David, Solomon, Elijah, Elisha, Jonah, Aaron, Moses, Zechariah, Jesus, and John the Baptist are mentioned in the Qur’an as prophets of God
Qur'an - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[idea]

*looks at thread location*


*bites tongue really really really hard*

OH - come on in. "Visitors welcome" sign on all our church buildings. Hopefully it is the same here (right everyone?)

 

[idea]

I'll tell you what if you accept
that we were created by God the one and only god there is: Genesis NKJ,

Sure - (but I prob define "create" differently than you)

Hebrew Word Studies
"The English word "create" is an abstract word and a foriegn concept to the Hebrews."

I think "form" is a better word...

that Jesus is the only son of God to ever exist and ever will exist: John 3:16 NKJ,

only "begotten" son...
Sons and Daughters of God (see also Adoption; Children; Children of Light)
Gen. 6:2 s. of God saw the d. of men
Job 1:6 s. of God came to present themselves
Job 38:7 (D&C 128:23) all the s. of God shouted for joy
Ps. 82:6 Ye are gods ... children of the most High
Isa. 45:11 saith the Lord ... Ask me ... concerning my s.
Hosea 1:10 Ye are the s. of the living God
John 1:12 (3 Ne. 9:17; Moro. 7:26; D&C 11:30; 35:2; 39:4; 42:52; 45:8) gave he power to become the s. of God
Acts 17:29 as we are the offspring of God
Rom. 8:14 led by the Spirit of God, they are the s. of God
2 Cor. 6:18 ye shall be my s. and d.
Gal. 4:5 that we might receive the adoption of s.
Gal. 4:7 thou art no more a servant, but a s.
Philip. 2:15 blameless and harmless, the s. of God
Heb. 12:7 (12:5–9) God dealeth with you as with s.
1 Jn. 3:2 now are we the s. of God
Rev. 21:7 be his God, and he shall be my s.
(Topical Guide | S Sons and Daughters of God:Entry)

that all people are inherently evil if left to their own devices and will go to hell: romans 3:23 NKJ,

I don't know that we are all inherently evil... I do think that on our own we would not be able to progress...

that Jesus died and came back to life Acts 1:22 NKJ,

agree

and that only faith in him will get you to him, and nothing you do: Ephesians 2:8 NKJ

We cannot save ourself without Jesus, nor can Jesus save us unless we repent etc...

I think it takes both faith and works...

17 Even so afaith, if it hath not bworks, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my afaith by my bworks.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the adevils also bbelieve, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father ajustified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made bperfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham abelieved God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the cFriend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without cworks is dead also.
(New Testament | James 2:17 - 26)

if you believe all that i'm completely Ok to call you Christian

OK - so what do you call us?

 

[Katzpur]

You said that only 3% of our bibles are the same.

No I didn't. Read my post again. So you have read the Book of Mormon and somehow concluded that it's our version of the Bible? The Bible and the Book of Mormon are two different collections of sacred writings. Mormons also believe the Bible to be the word of God. We generally use the KJV, which is exactly the same Bible as many other Christians use. Please don't continue to say stupid things. It's annoying.

well for instance that verse in revelation was taken out so they still took something out of that book you say he was referring to so by your own words, you're screwed on that one.

I give up. You clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about.

I'll tell you what if you accept that we were created by God the one and only god there is: Genesis NKJ...

I do.

that Jesus is the only son of God to ever exist and ever will exist: John 3:16 NKJ...

I believe Jesus to be God's Only Begotten Son. I believe all of us are God's spirit offspring and that He is our Father in Heaven.

that all people are inherently evil if left to their own devices and will go to hell: romans 3:23 NKJ...

Excuse me, but Romans 3:23 doesn't say one single word about Hell.

that Jesus died and came back to life Acts 1:22 NKJ..

I believe that.

and that only faith in him will get you to him, and nothing you do: Ephesians 2:8 NKJ

Here's what I believe:

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Romans 2:12-13 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

2Timothy: 2-19 Nevertheless, the foundation of God standeth sure, having the seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

James 2:20-24 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

if you believe all that i'm completely Ok to call you Christian if you don't believe in Everything the bible says, you're not.

You think I care what you call me? Don't flatter yourself.

...because that's the definition.

No it's not. Give me the chapter and verse where you find that definition.

I cant pretend to know every thing about every version of LDS and if some of them believe all that then they are welcomed by me any time. the ones that don't however aren't Christians because to be Christian means to follow the bible every bit of it.

I believe the Bible, and evidently am much more familiar with it than you are.

and as to the sneaking into the temple i lived in a neighborhood where we had very large drainage sewers one of the ends popped up in the side court of a Mormon temple sowhile we were being kids and crawling around in there one day after it had started some friends and i, decided to go eavesdrop outside the window. (at the time we thought it was a regular Christian church)
but the things i stated is what i heard. I would like to believe i took them out of context. but they have been reinforced by what several ex Mormon's have told me.

I'm not dumb and laughing at the ideals and opinions of others shows that you haven't taken what they say seriously so why should any one take what you say seriously?

I feel sorry for you. Seriously. You can't possibly expect anybody to believe such a story. First off, if you think that crawling through a sewer pipe is "not dumb," we don't have a whole lot of common ground from which to start a rational discussion. Secondly, when you are in the temple, you can't even hear what's being said in an adjacent room. You're asking me to believe that you could hear what was said while you were laying in a sewer pipe? Get real.

 

[Katzpur]

*looks at thread location*


*bites tongue really really really hard*

Oh, come on. We can made exceptions, can't we?

 

[CaptainBritain]

Crawling sewers is not wise, the Bible tells us that God instructed the Jews in the ways of proper sanitation and its importance, forget the passage but i think its in Numbers.

Now you two, try for a little Christian unity and i will light a candle for you both.

 

[idea]

Crawling sewers is not wise, the Bible tells us that God instructed the Jews in the ways of proper sanitation and its importance, forget the passage but i think its in Numbers.

Now you two, try for a little Christian unity and i will light a candle for you both.

Light A Candle For Peace

 

[Katzpur]

Now you two, try for a little Christian unity and i will light a candle for you both.

I'm sorry, CaptainBritain. I hate to be a bad example of my faith, but some people's comments! Jeesh!

 

[Watchmen]

You said that only 3% of our bibles are the same. well for instance that verse in revelation was taken out so they still took something out of that book you say he was referring to so by your own words, you're screwed on that one.

I believe it's been mentioned three times now, but since you still seem unclear, I'll add a fourth.

Our Bibles are almost identicle as we use the KJV of the Bible.

The Book of Mormon is not the Bible - it's the Book of Mormon.

When making comparisons, it's best to make it apples to apples and not apples to oranges.

To help you understand, here is a link to the Bible we study from:
Old Testament: Old Testament
New Testament: New Testament

And to make it even clearer, here is Rev. 22:18 per the Bible we use:
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

So, as you see, our Bibles are very much alike. As in 99% the same.

 

[DarkMaster24]

Because mainstream Christians don't like the idea of nonbelievers still making to to heavan?

I just know that they think the LDS enterpretation of god is much different than their own. They think that they wont be saved if thy accept the book of Mormon. I guess they must also have scripture against the Book of Mormon to back up their beliefs, but I'm not familiar with any.

Essentially, however, both Protestantism and Christianity teach the message that Jesus is the key to salvation, allthough the apposing faiths have different veiws on who Christ is.

Like don't Mormons believe that Jesus is Satan's brother?

Mormons also believe in a previous life where we choose god's plan-those who chose the devils were given a spritual body and will reside in hell for eternity.

Mormons also believe in three heavans, while protestants only believe in one. These striking differences are among the reasons protestants reject the Book of Mormon.

I'm sure there are many more differences I have not listed, but you get the idea.

It's my hope that this explains why Christians don't accept the Book of Mormon as scripture.

 

[Watchmen]

Because mainstream Christians don't like the idea of nonbelievers still making to to heavan?

I just know that they think the LDS enterpretation of god is much different than their own. They think that they wont be saved if thy accept the book of Mormon. I guess they must also have scripture against the Book of Mormon to back up their beliefs, but I'm not familiar with any.

Essentially, however, both Protestantism and Christianity teach the message that Jesus is the key to salvation, allthough the apposing faiths have different veiws on who Christ is.

Like don't Mormons believe that Jesus is Satan's brother?

Mormons also believe in a previous life where we choose god's plan-those who chose the devils were given a spritual body and will reside in hell for eternity.

Mormons also believe in three heavans, while protestants only believe in one. These striking differences are among the reasons protestants reject the Book of Mormon.

I'm sure there are many more differences I have not listed, but you get the idea.

It's my hope that this explains why Christians don't accept the Book of Mormon as scripture.

The differences are not nearly as striking if one actually knows LDS teachings.

 

[DarkMaster24]

Did I get anything wrong in explaining Mormonism? Ilearned all that from an LDS missionary.

 

[Katzpur]

Because mainstream Christians don't like the idea of nonbelievers still making to to heavan?

I'm not sure that this is really much of a factor. Actually many of them think that Mormons believe that they're the only ones who will get to Heaven. It probably does annoy some of the more conservative groups who actually understand our belief, though.

I just know that they think the LDS enterpretation of god is much different than their own.

And to a certain extent, they are right. On the other hand, I think we talk back and forth right past each other on this topic much of the time. I think there is a definite opinion among most Christians that you can't be a Christian at all if you don't accept the Trinity as a true doctrine -- which we don't.

They think that they wont be saved if thy accept the book of Mormon.

This takes us back to what is meant by salvation, and is always a difficult topic. To us, there are different levels of salvation, just as there are different degrees of righteousness, faithfulness and worthiness.

I guess they must also have scripture against the Book of Mormon to back up their beliefs, but I'm not familiar with any.

Well, Protestants believe that the Bible is sufficient to answer all of our religious questions. Unfortunately, the Bible never claims to be what they believe it to be. I think that with most traditional Christians, it is not so much what the Book of Mormon says that is problematic for them. It's the fact that it exists in the first place.

Essentially, however, both Protestantism and Christianity teach the message that Jesus is the key to salvation, allthough the apposing faiths have different veiws on who Christ is.

Right.

Like don't Mormons believe that Jesus is Satan's brother?

We believe that they were both spirit sons of the same Father, so in that sense, yes. What I don't get is why they seem to think that Satan's being the way he is is any reflection on Jesus.

Mormons also believe in a previous life where we choose god's plan-those who chose the devils were given a spritual body and will reside in hell for eternity.

More or less.

Mormons also believe in three heavans, while protestants only believe in one.

We believe in one Heaven with three "degrees of glory." Not a show-stopper in my opinion.

These striking differences are among the reasons protestants reject the Book of Mormon.

Actually, the Book of Mormon doesn't even get into most of these issues. Like I said before, it exists and is valued along side the Bible. To most Christians, this is absolute heresy, even though the Bible doesn't indicate it to be the case.

I'm sure there are many more differences I have not listed, but you get the idea.

I'd say the fact that we believe in continued revelation from God is a biggie. Most of them insist that God has said all He intends to, and that His words can be found in one neat little book called the Bible -- prepackaged and ready for us to enjoy. Personally, I'm pretty glad that He's still communicating with us.

It's my hope that this explains why Christians don't accept the Book of Mormon as scripture.

Your reply was actually one of the better ones on this thread. Thanks for taking the time to reply. (Too bad it was on the Same Faith Debates forum, where -- as an atheist -- you shouldn't be posting at all. )

 

[Katzpur]

Because it is more obvious nonsense than they already believe in, and are squeemish about expanding the level on which their idiocy can be criticized. Which is large for the LDS church. Do you watch South Park?

Read the rules, pal. You're breaking them. Wouldn't want to have to ask a staff member to "remind" youl.

 

[CaptainBritain]

I'm sorry, CaptainBritain. I hate to be a bad example of my faith, but some people's comments! Jeesh!

I feel your sentiment truely, I remember you from when I was here before and know you to be an honest, straight talking, decent person, its not my place to guess the Lords decisions, but even though we will never meet in this life I will ask you for a dance in the next.
I know you are a Christian and you do your best at it, thats all the Lord asks.
The other chaps comments were uncalled for (shame as i was starting to like that guy).

 

[Apex]

Because it is more obvious nonsense than they already believe in, and are squeemish about expanding the level on which their idiocy can be criticized. Which is large for the LDS church. Do you watch South Park?

I suggest you delete your post.

 

[ukMethodist]

Here my view:

--
The Articles of Faith are as follows:
We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
--

LDS teaches polytheism.

--
We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
--

You don't believe men, beginning from birth, is capable of sin (that's all Adam's 'original sin' means, if you don't know your original theology, I understand you need 'new' answers)

--
We believe that through the atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
--

You teach atonement through works, not faith.

--
We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
--

Basically, that teaches that Jesus sacrifice on the cross is not enough. That prayer isn't enough, but there is need for another mediator to lay on hands. Again, you are saved by faith in Christ as LORD alone and in prayer. All the rest isn't necessary, but it follows in context. Telling me I need to be baptised in water by someone else to be saved, that invalidates Jesus sacrifice to connect us directly with God.

--
We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
--

You do not teach that the only authority lies in God, again, here is a mediator.

--
We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
--

Mistake here, you talk of the 'primitive' church, when in fact, there is only one church, the church of Jesus Christ.

--
We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
--

That's nice, but not the true focus of Christ's church (1 Corithians 13 anyone?)

--
We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
--

Interestingly, I thought Jesus is the Word of God (Gospel of John?)...

--
We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
--

There is nothing missing or to be added, what are you looking for?

--
We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacle glory.
--

Nice, but not part of the Gospel.

--
We claim the privilege of worshipping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
--

Thanks, that's generous of you.

--
We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
--

That's all in the NT, why the book of Mormons then?

--
We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul — We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
--

That's a noble list, but there's no mention of God here, only of 'anything'...


If the book of Mormon is supposed to be based on the bible, it's done bad homework.

Sorry, but I gotta be honest, I do not know you as a person, I don't know your story, your character, I do know though, that LDS is not of Christ. I would gladly leave this be, if you just dropped the Jesus from your churches name and called yourself simply Mormonism, but I hold Jesus to dear to my heart to see his name being used like this.

 

[ukMethodist]

YouTube - The Bible vs. The Book of Mormon