Why Dont Christians Accept the Book of Mormon as Valid?

[Apex]

YouTube - The Bible vs. The Book of Mormon

People still watch that?
Behind the Mask, Behind the Curtain: Uncovering the Illusion - Response to that sad video.

 

[McBell]

Here my view:

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The Articles of Faith are as follows:
We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
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LDS teaches polytheism.

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We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
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You don't believe men, beginning from birth, is capable of sin (that's all Adam's 'original sin' means, if you don't know your original theology, I understand you need 'new' answers)

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We believe that through the atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
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You teach atonement through works, not faith.

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We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
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Basically, that teaches that Jesus sacrifice on the cross is not enough. That prayer isn't enough, but there is need for another mediator to lay on hands. Again, you are saved by faith in Christ as LORD alone and in prayer. All the rest isn't necessary, but it follows in context. Telling me I need to be baptised in water by someone else to be saved, that invalidates Jesus sacrifice to connect us directly with God.

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We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
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You do not teach that the only authority lies in God, again, here is a mediator.

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We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
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Mistake here, you talk of the 'primitive' church, when in fact, there is only one church, the church of Jesus Christ.

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We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
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That's nice, but not the true focus of Christ's church (1 Corithians 13 anyone?)

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We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
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Interestingly, I thought Jesus is the Word of God (Gospel of John?)...

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We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
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There is nothing missing or to be added, what are you looking for?

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We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacle glory.
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Nice, but not part of the Gospel.

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We claim the privilege of worshipping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
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Thanks, that's generous of you.

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We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
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That's all in the NT, why the book of Mormons then?

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We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul — We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
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That's a noble list, but there's no mention of God here, only of 'anything'...


If the book of Mormon is supposed to be based on the bible, it's done bad homework.

Sorry, but I gotta be honest, I do not know you as a person, I don't know your story, your character, I do know though, that LDS is not of Christ. I would gladly leave this be, if you just dropped the Jesus from your churches name and called yourself simply Mormonism, but I hold Jesus to dear to my heart to see his name being used like this.

Congratulations!!
You have proven that the LDS beliefs are different from whomever the "we" in your post are.

 

[Katzpur]

Here my view:

The Articles of Faith are as follows:
We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

LDS teaches polytheism.

So do the Methodists. Just ask any Muslim. Oh, and by the way, last I knew you, too, believed in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost? When did this change?

We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.

You don't believe men, beginning from birth, is capable of sin (that's all Adam's 'original sin' means, if you don't know your original theology, I understand you need 'new' answers)

We believe that each of us inherited the propensity or inclination to sin. We don't believe that it is possible for a person to sin before he has reached an age where he is capable of understanding the difference between right and wrong. By the way, just what sin do you believe a little baby is capable of committing anyway?

We believe that through the atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

You teach atonement through works, not faith.

We teach that it is virtually impossible for any human being to save himself, that Jesus Christ is the only means by which we can be reconciled to our Father in Heaven. We do not teach, however, that the Atonement absolves us of the responsibility to obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus Christ throughout our lives.

We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Basically, that teaches that Jesus sacrifice on the cross is not enough. That prayer isn't enough, but there is need for another mediator to lay on hands. Again, you are saved by faith in Christ as LORD alone and in prayer. All the rest isn't necessary, but it follows in context. Telling me I need to be baptised in water by someone else to be saved, that invalidates Jesus sacrifice to connect us directly with God.

We believe exactly what the Bible teaches -- that we must have faith in Jesus Christ, that we must repent of our sins, that we must be baptized and that we must be given the Gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands.

We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

You do not teach that the only authority lies in God, again, here is a mediator.

God has given His appointed servants the authority to act in His name, just as He did in the time of Christ. Jesus called and ordained Apostles to guide and direct His Church after He died. Who gave your minister or pastor the authority to serve in his capacity?

We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.

Mistake here, you talk of the 'primitive' church, when in fact, there is only one church, the church of Jesus Christ.

I beg your pardon, but there are today more than 30,000 different Christian denominations, each claiming to be Christ's Church. They cannot all be the same Church as existed at the time of Christ's death.

We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

That's nice, but not the true focus of Christ's church (1 Corithians 13 anyone?)

Did anyone say they were? What's the matter, couldn't you think of a better criticism for this teaching? Why shouldn't the Church today have the same spiritual gifts as the Church did anciently?

We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

Interestingly, I thought Jesus is the Word of God (Gospel of John?)...

Now you're just playing word games. You know as well as I do that Christian Churches around the world refer to the Bible as the word of God.

We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

There is nothing missing or to be added, what are you looking for?

There is nothing missing? What about Paul's epistle to the Laodiceans, Jude's other epistle, the prophecies of Enoch or the book of Samuel the Seer? What about the things Christ said and did that were so numerous that all of the books in the world could not hold them?

We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacle glory.

Nice, but not part of the Gospel.

Sure it is. It's just not part of yours.

We claim the privilege of worshipping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

Thanks, that's generous of you.

May I ask what the point of the sarcasm is?

We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

That's all in the NT, why the book of Mormons then?

Huh? There's some kind of a rule against a truth being taught in more than one place?

We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul — We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

That's a noble list, but there's no mention of God here, only of 'anything'...

I believe God was mentioned in the First Article of Faith. You have a problem with noble virtues?

If the book of Mormon is supposed to be based on the bible, it's done bad homework.

Who told you the Book of Mormon is based on the Bible?

Sorry, but I gotta be honest, I do not know you as a person, I don't know your story, your character, I do know though, that LDS is not of Christ. I would gladly leave this be, if you just dropped the Jesus from your churches name and called yourself simply Mormonism, but I hold Jesus to dear to my heart to see his name being used like this.

Spare us the drama, Methodist. You don't believe that some of our doctrines are Christian, so you want us to stop using Christ's name. I don't believe that some of your behavior is Christian. Perhaps I should ask the same of you. But tell me this... Do you really think such a judgmental attitude is pleasing to the One who suffered and died to redeem both of us?

 

[CaptainBritain]

We are asked very little in the Bible, and a good Mormon hits the mark as well as the rest of us imho, Baptism, acceptance of Christ as the redeemer, repentance of sins.
Real simple, all else is window dressing.
I think Mormons go along with the above three things (?)
So the dance is still on.

 

[ukMethodist]

You asked why I don't accept the book of Mormon, I gave my answer.

 

[Katzpur]

You asked why I don't accept the book of Mormon, I gave my answer.

Yes you did; thank you. The only problem was that the reasons you gave were invalid because they were based upon inaccurate or incomplete information concerning our beliefs. But hey, thanks for resurrecting the thread anyway. And welcome to RF.

 

[Katzpur]

Why dont Christians accept the Qur'an to be true? it testifies that Jesus was a Christ, a Messiah. and about a billion and a half people consider it a solid book, the literal word of God as trasmited to the prophet Muhammad by the archangel Gabriel.

You dont believe that both God and Gabriel would reveal themselves to a 7th century Arab who waged brilliant campaigns throughout the Middle East?
Yet they believe that an angel called Moroni would speak to a young American who was known for his high tells?
ditto!

Good questions, Caladan. My only comment would be that this young American was known for absolutely nothing at the time these events transpired. It was only after he claimed to have had heavenly visitors that any previous "high tales" were ever even thought of. And we all know how reliable repressed memories are.

By the way, when did you become a Christian? Or are moderators above the law?

 

[McBell]

You asked why I don't accept the book of Mormon, I gave my answer.

Fair enough.

 

[Caladan]

By the way, when did you become a Christian? Or are moderators above the law?

Thanks for bringing to my attention that we are in the 'same faith' dir :yes:
I will now remove these apparently inconvenient questions to a new deserving thread, where we can get a more diverse input and dialogue.

 

[Katzpur]

Thanks for bringing to my attention that we are in the 'same faith' dir :yes:
I will now remove these apparently inconvenient questions to a new deserving thread, where we can get a more diverse input and dialogue.

No problemo!

 

[ukMethodist]

The Quran denies the crucifixion, that's why it's not a Christian writing.

 

[arthra]

The Quran denies the crucifixion, that's why it's not a Christian writing.

[Yusufali 4:157] That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

[Yusufali 4:158] Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-



The Qur'an 4:158 does say that they thought they "killed" the Messiah.. It says something did occur in my view and that the Spirit of Jesus was taken up by God.. In Qur'an it also says Martyrs are not "dead" See Qur'an Surih 2:154. Spiritually they continue and so with this view it is that the Spirit of Christ was not crucified or killed...

True the Qur'an is not a "Christian" writing. By those who accept the Qur'an is regarded as a Revelation from God.

- Art

 

[ἀλήθεια]

I beg your pardon, but there are today more than 30,000 different Christian denominations, each claiming to be Christ's Church. They cannot all be the same Church as existed at the time of Christ's death.

This isn't true. Any denomination that teaches it is the only true church on earth and the means by which men can be saved is most likeky a cult. The Bible doesn't teach that Christ's Church saves. It is Jesus Christ who saves; that is why Methodists, Wesleyans, Presbyterians, Disciples of Christ, and Episcopalians call Him Savior. Christ's Church is composed of those individuals who recognize Him as Savior and have been born again by the Holy Spirit.

Those individuals who feign to have the only legitimate authority from God (or sincerely believe that they have this exclusive authority) are ignoring the fact that believers are a royal priesthood, granted authority from God Himself.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

I think there is a definite opinion among most Christians that you can't be a Christian at all if you don't accept the Trinity as a true doctrine -- which we don't.

The Bible gives ample evidence that God is Triune. LDS don't accept what the Bible says pertaining to God.

Joseph Smith ridiculed the concept of a Triune God:

"Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are only one God. I say that is a strange God anyhow—three in one, and one in three! It is a curious organization anyhow. All are to be crammed into one God, according to sectarianism. It would make the biggest God in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God--- he would be a giant or a monster."(TPJS, p. 372; History of the VChurch, Vol. 6, p. 473-479)

This takes us back to what is meant by salvation, and is always a difficult topic. To us, there are different levels of salvation, just as there are different degrees of righteousness, faithfulness and worthiness.

Jesus came to save His people. IOW, He came to give them eternal life. The Bible teaches this and does not say that there are levels of eternal life.

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. (John 10:28)

LDS claim that those who are the Lord's people and have truth, must have temples:

"'The inspired erection and proper use of temples is one of the great evidences of the divinity of the Lord's work....Where there are temples, with the spirit of revelation resting upon those who administer therein, there the Lord's people will be found; where these are not, the Church and kingdom and the truth of heaven are not' (Mormon Doctrine, 2nd Ed., Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966, p. 781).

Well, Protestants believe that the Bible is sufficient to answer all of our religious questions. Unfortunately, the Bible never claims to be what they believe it to be. I think that with most traditional Christians, it is not so much what the Book of Mormon says that is problematic for them. It's the fact that it exists in the first place.

The biggest problem is that a false teacher named Joseph Smith, Jr. claimed to have been directed by God to translate a "Book of Mormon" and then proceeded to ridicule what God had already revealed to mankind. What does the Book of Mormon say about the Bible?

I'd say the fact that we believe in continued revelation from God is a biggie. Most of them insist that God has said all He intends to, and that His words can be found in one neat little book called the Bible -- prepackaged and ready for us to enjoy.

And what is it that the Book of Mormon says about that "one neat little book called the Bible -- prepackaged and ready for us to enjoy" (your sarcasm is noted)?

 

[Watchmen]

This isn't true. Any denomination that teaches it is the only true church on earth and the means by which men can be saved is most likeky a cult. The Bible doesn't teach that Christ's Church saves. It is Jesus Christ who saves; that is why Methodists, Wesleyans, Presbyterians, Disciples of Christ, and Episcopalians call Him Savior. Christ's Church is composed of those individuals who recognize Him as Savior and have been born again by the Holy Spirit.

Those individuals who feign to have the only legitimate authority from God (or sincerely believe that they have this exclusive authority) are ignoring the fact that believers are a royal priesthood, granted authority from God Himself.

So that includes Mormons because we call Him Savior too!

 

[Watchmen]

The Bible gives ample evidence that God is Triune. LDS don't accept what the Bible says pertaining to God.

Joseph Smith ridiculed the concept of a Triune God:

"Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are only one God. I say that is a strange God anyhow—three in one, and one in three! It is a curious organization anyhow. All are to be crammed into one God, according to sectarianism. It would make the biggest God in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God--- he would be a giant or a monster."(TPJS, p. 372; History of the VChurch, Vol. 6, p. 473-479)




Jesus came to save His people. IOW, He came to give them eternal life. The Bible teaches this and does not say that there are levels of eternal life.

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. (John 10:28)

LDS claim that those who are the Lord's people and have truth, must have temples:

"'The inspired erection and proper use of temples is one of the great evidences of the divinity of the Lord's work....Where there are temples, with the spirit of revelation resting upon those who administer therein, there the Lord's people will be found; where these are not, the Church and kingdom and the truth of heaven are not' (Mormon Doctrine, 2nd Ed., Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966, p. 781).



The biggest problem is that a false teacher named Joseph Smith, Jr. claimed to have been directed by God to translate a "Book of Mormon" and then proceeded to ridicule what God had already revealed to mankind. What does the Book of Mormon say about the Bible?



And what is it that the Book of Mormon says about that "one neat little book called the Bible -- prepackaged and ready for us to enjoy" (your sarcasm is noted)?

The Bible gives ample evidence that the Godhead is three Beings with One Purpose.

Jesus did bring eternal life. He also taught that in his Father's house is many mansions. Paul also spoke of the glory of the Sun vs. the glory of the Stars. Revelation also talks about the Book of Life and what we do being written there and sealed up for eternity.

God has always commanded His people to build temples.

The Book of Mormon testifies of Christ. The Bible testifies of Christ.

All the books of the world could not contain everything Christ has done.

 

[CaptainBritain]

You know the vine by its fruit kat, the Bible hits so many nails so very square on the head.

As to the Book of Mormon, im about thirty pages in (taking my time with it), and im tempted to say all is square with it thus far or atleast not any cause for uproar, is anyone up for a PM barrage of Q+A, im not going to be picking, its just its very hard to find out the finer points of scriptures on first reading.

 

[silvermoon383]

I'm always up for questions. I tend to be pretty silent on the open forums though, I try to not stir up trouble.

 

[Master Hartnyuo]

Probably because it was written 1500 or so years after the last biblical writings. Not that the age of a book determines how factual it is. Because clearly both have their faults.

 

[Katzpur]

You know the vine by its fruit kat, the Bible hits so many nails so very square on the head.

As to the Book of Mormon, im about thirty pages in (taking my time with it), and im tempted to say all is square with it thus far or atleast not any cause for uproar, is anyone up for a PM barrage of Q+A, im not going to be picking, its just its very hard to find out the finer points of scriptures on first reading.

Allow me. Please. Better still, I could try to round up my mentor, Deep Shadow. In my opinion, there is no more knowledgeable Latter-day Saint on the forum. Finally, one other option would be to start a thread in the LDS DIR. That way, you could ask your questions and any Latter-day Saint who felt qualified to respond could do so. That way, you'd get input from more than one person.