Why Dont Christians Accept the Book of Mormon as Valid?

[sojourner]

When it really boils down to is that most Christians do not accept the Book of Mormon as scripture for the simple reason that it exists. They may not have a clue what the Book of Mormon teaches and may not be able to find anything in it with which to disagree, but they simply cannot conceive of the idea that the Bible does not contain all of God's word. The fact that the Book of Mormon purports to be another sacred record is, for whatever reason, offensive to them.

I don't "buy" the BOM as valid for a couple of reason. One, it has not been canonized. The same reason why I don't buy Thomas as valid. Two, it is not part of the same anthropological record as the canon scriptures. It comes from a different tradition. Also why I don't buy the Koran as valid (even though Muslims do). These things might be "God's Word," but they're not scripture.

It might contain truth (lots of non-canonical writings do), but it's nothing necessary. It's corrollary.

I still would be really interested to know what that "plan of salvation" is that is so different from what is presented in the canonical scripture, that made so many people accept the "true" gospel and join the LDS. It must be significant.

 

[Katzpur]

I don't believe that I am "twisting" anything. I am merely pointing out that this particular passage can be interpreted another way. Of course the LDS would not accept that interpretation. I wouldn't expect them to.

Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to differ on this, then. But I think that most people who asked the question, "Is this not the truth?" would see it the way I do.

Are these stipulations listed anywhere in you doctrine? I'm not disputing your criterion, only wondering why these weren't mentioned when I was challenged to pray about that book.

They're right in the book. You quoted part of the passage in your post.

No, I do believe that Jesus Christ is the savior and creator of the universe (not to mention many, many other things). Yes, I DO believe that because the Holy Ghost/Spirit personally revealed it to me.

What I do NOT believe is the Joseph Smith story about that book or his story about the 1st vision. If I do not and cannot believe those two things, how and why would I be expected believe anything that he said ABOUT those things?

You wouldn't be.

If God has revealed to me that the LDS church is not true, why would I be expected to pray about it again. Why would I contradict God? That would be foolishness and personally destructive.

I'm sorry. If your original intent was sincere, then you've fulfilled your obligation.

 

[Katzpur]

I still would be really interested to know what that "plan of salvation" is that is so different from what is presented in the canonical scripture, that made so many people accept the "true" gospel and join the LDS. It must be significant.

I'll get back to you on this. It's just more comprehensive (way more comprehensive) than the traditional version, and I would probably be temped to go into more detail than you're interested in knowing. I'll probably even start a new thread.

 

[Katzpur]

Katzpur & ἀλήθεια

Thanks, wow that is crazy. Talk about wrong place wrong time.
Now I can tell the guy that told me more of the story.
I like history, that that was good info.

By the way, if you are interested in an exceptionally good history of Joseph Smith himself, you might want to read "Rough Stone Rolling" by Richard Bushman. What you read will be factual. He doesn't white-wash anything. And it's definitely more reliable than some of the 1830's era periodicals that have been suggested.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Katspur, what I think is the question here is this, can a Christian be admitted to heaven without the BoM? (According to the LDS)

 

[sojourner]

I'll get back to you on this. It's just more comprehensive (way more comprehensive) than the traditional version, and I would probably be temped to go into more detail than you're interested in knowing. I'll probably even start a new thread.

That would be great. I'm really not trying to be provocative. I really am interested to know the "nuts-and-bolts differences between how you and I perceive the gospel, and how the BOM is uniquely cogent to your position. Thanks for taking the time to consider. You might PM me if you start a new thread, so I know where it is.

 

[lockyfan]

Well I know that not all christians go to heaven according to the bible as the bible speaks of 144000 going to heaven to rule as kings and priests and the rest live in a paradise on earth forever

Psalms 37:10-11 And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more; And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be. 11 But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.

Revelation 14:1-4 And I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. And I heard a sound out of heaven as the sound of many waters and as the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was as of singers who accompany themselves on the harp playing on their harps. And they are singing as if a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth. These are the ones that did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins. These are the ones that keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb, and no falsehood was found in their mouths; they are without blemish.

 

[herushura]

Well I know that not all christians go to heaven according to the bible as the bible speaks of 144000 going to heaven to rule as kings and priests and the rest live in a paradise on earth forever

Psalms 37:10-11 And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more; And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be. 11 But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.

Revelation 14:1-4 And I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. And I heard a sound out of heaven as the sound of many waters and as the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was as of singers who accompany themselves on the harp playing on their harps. And they are singing as if a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth. These are the ones that did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins. These are the ones that keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb, and no falsehood was found in their mouths; they are without blemish.

Interesting piece of Astro-theology, whenever i see numbers like 144,216,666,12,4,432,72,36 it obvious its astrology.

The Lamb standing on Mount Zion, is Aries the Lamb, its dictates the finished Age of Aries

 

[Watchmen]

Katspur, what I think is the question here is this, can a Christian be admitted to heaven without the BoM? (According to the LDS)

I'm not the Kat, but I would answer "yes."

 

[lockyfan]

Interesting piece of Astro-theology, whenever i see numbers like 144,216,666,12,4,432,72,36 it obvious its astrology.

The Lamb standing on Mount Zion, is Aries the Lamb, its dictates the finished Age of Aries

No its from revelation. I got it from the bible. which is the same place ilearnt that astrology is not something I would prsonally get into, because it is one of satans devices.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Katspur, what I think is the question here is this, can a Christian be admitted to heaven without the BoM? (According to the LDS)

I'm not the Kat, but I would answer "yes."

Then why would a Christian need to accept the BoM? Or the teachings of the LDS?

 

[herushura]

No its from revelation. I got it from the bible. which is the same place ilearnt that astrology is not something I would prsonally get into, because it is one of satans devices.

satan is a god that personifes harvest and fish, he hold a tridant to symbolize this
satanism = astrology

 

[herushura]

infact Satan is a god, that has much older origin then yahwah himself, the bible i which demonizes him because his zodiac rule has entered the underword * scorpio * it was virgo the house of bread and fish

 

[tumbleweed41]

The question here is why don't Christians accept the BoM, not the nature of Satan. Or astrology.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

I know i am going right back to the beginning, but i believe that the bible is the word of God and when it says at
Rev 22:18-19
I am bearing witness to everyone that hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll; and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life and out of the holy city, things which are written about in this scroll.

So while i have heard things about how the book of Mormon was found, I dont believe it is from God himself because of what this scripture is saying

Do you believe there was a book called the Bible when John was writing on those scrolls, or could his words refer to the book of Revelation?

 

[ἀλήθεια]

can a Christian be admitted to heaven without the BoM? (According to the LDS)

Which LDS heaven are you talking about? The one where the highest God(s) dwell is the Celestial Kingdom. That is reserved for those who have met the requirements for eternal life:

In addition to receiving the required ordinances, the Lord commands all of us to--


Love and worship God.

Love our neighbor.

Repent of our wrongdoings.

Live the law of chastity.

Pay honest tithes and offerings.

Be honest in our dealings with others and with the Lord.

Speak the truth always.

Obey the Word of Wisdom.

Search out our kindred dead and perform the saving ordinances of the gospel for them.

Keep the Sabbath day holy.

Attend our Church meetings as regularly as possible so we can renew our baptismal covenants by partaking of the sacrament.

Love our family members and strengthen them in the ways of the Lord.

Have family and individual prayers every day.

Honor our parents.

Teach the gospel to others by word and example.

Study the scriptures.

Listen to and obey the inspired words of the prophets of the Lord.

Finally, each of us needs to receive the Holy Ghost and learn to follow his direction in our individual lives.
Gospel Principles, Exaltation, Chapter 47
Gospel Principles

If you haven't been baptized into the LDS church, you can't receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost by someone who has proper(LDS) authority.

"If you keep my commandments and endure to the end you shall have eternal life, which gift is the greatest of all the gifts of God" (D&C 14:7)

Be sure to read Doctrine and Covenants Section 76:

Doctrine and Covenants 76

 

[herushura]

No its from revelation. I got it from the bible. which is the same place ilearnt that astrology is not something I would prsonally get into, because it is one of satans devices.

Astrology is infact a Satan device, the word satan comes from the same root as "harvest/sowing/grain". The Ancient used Astrology as a Tool to tell them the Time of harvest. same reason why stonehenge, pyramids, temple of solomon and even the the giant time clock in vatican where built

 

[ἀλήθεια]

That would be great. I'm really not trying to be provocative. I really am interested to know the "nuts-and-bolts differences between how you and I perceive the gospel, and how the BOM is uniquely cogent to your position. Thanks for taking the time to consider. You might PM me if you start a new thread, so I know where it is.

“Lesson 2: The Plan of Salvation,” Aaronic Priesthood Manual 3, 4
Each young man will better understand the plan of salvation, which Heavenly Father has instituted for the glory and exaltation of man.

LDS.org - Aaronic Priesthood Chapter Detail - The Plan of Salvation

 

[ἀλήθεια]

satan is a god that personifes harvest and fish, he hold a tridant to symbolize this
satanism = astrology

This thread is in Same Faith Debates.

 

[herushura]

“Lesson 2: The Plan of Salvation,” Aaronic Priesthood Manual 3, 4
Each young man will better understand the plan of salvation, which Heavenly Father has instituted for the glory and exaltation of man.

LDS.org - Aaronic Priesthood Chapter Detail - The Plan of Salvation

Why would people need Salvation, whats to be saved from

Do all LDS live in fear