Why Dont Christians Accept the Book of Mormon as Valid?

[ἀλήθεια]

Lets not get caught up on the word or works of man.
The only truth is in the word of Jesus.
All that come to him shall have eternal life, what more can we ask for.

LDS do not teach that all Christian believers shall have eternal life. Eternal life is to live with Heavenly Father and to live the kind of life that He lives.

Doctrine and Covenants 132
25 Broad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the deaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they receive me not, neither do they abide in my law.
26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God.

27 The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall not be forgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye commit no murder wherein ye shed innocent blood, and assent unto my death, after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter into my glory, but shall be damned, saith the Lord.

Can't we all just get along?

We aren't getting along? Why is that?

 

[ἀλήθεια]

This is an answer I can't give in a couple of short sentences or in a brief quote from an LDS leader (although ἀλήθεια seems to be quite happy to try to answer all of the questions addressed to the LDS posters on the forum). Keep in mind that not all of her quotes are from canonical sources. I'm not going to bother to respond to them. I just want you and others who ask questions of us to recognize that the answers ἀλήθεια gives are not necessary the ones we would give. But as soon as any of us respond to her posts, things start to get heated.

It seems you don't like for me to share information. I use LDS sources and that upsets you? As for the information I provided on the Plan of Salvation, that is what your church teaches to the Aaronic Priesthood holders. And the information about the degrees of glory came from your scriptures. The information about what happened at Carthage Jail also came from Church History, a six-volume set available in LDS bookstores. I know that the Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price are considered canonical sources in the LDS church. I've never tried to keep that a secret.

 

[silvermoon383]

You're missing her point Alethia. The questions were addressed to us, not you, yet you answer for us. At bare minimum that's impolite. And as others have stated, just because a Mormon wrote at book it doesn't mean it authoritative. That includes out-of-date manuals.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

You're missing her point Alethia. The questions were addressed to us, not you, yet you answer for us. At bare minimum that's impolite. And as others have stated, just because a Mormon wrote at book it doesn't mean it authoritative. That includes out-of-date manuals.

This thread is in Same Faith Debates and is evidently open to Christians. I am a Christian. The LDS scriptures are authoritative. The other quotes are from LDS sources. Are you suggesting that all manuals, all books written by LDS, and all conference talks can be misleading? Is it okay to give a conference talk that will mislead LDS? Is lds.org a bad place to go for information about Mormonism?

 

[edward]

You're missing her point Alethia. The questions were addressed to us, not you, yet you answer for us. At bare minimum that's impolite. And as others have stated, just because a Mormon wrote at book it doesn't mean it authoritative. That includes out-of-date manuals.

Considering that the purpose of these forums is "Religous Education," I would think that any question submitted to the forum would be open for responses and discussions from all members of the board. If it should be private, then use the PM method or e-mail.

By "out of date manuals" do you mean that the LDS gospel has changed from the time that said manuals were published? Why are these not authorative if they were used to teach the members of your church? Why are the words of your leaders, past and present, not to be believed? I suppose that sermons given during your conferences or articles in the LDS publications would hold no weight, either. I find this rather odd, to say the least.

Edward

 

[edward]

duplicate

 

[ἀλήθεια]

How about the following Silvermoon? Is the following reliable information or is it misleading?

"These truths are absolute. Members of this Church invite all people to learn them and to qualify for eternal life. We invite all to gain faith in God the Eternal Father and in His Son, Jesus Christ, to repent, to receive the Holy Ghost, to obtain the blessings of the temple, to make and keep sacred covenants, and to endure to the end." - Elder Russell M. Nelson, Celestial Marriage, 178th Semiannual General Conference, October 2008
Celestial Marriage

 

[lockyfan]

Ok so what I am saying is that the bible is Gods Word.

One of the very last passages in the bible tells us that if anything that is added or removed from the bible, those who do this are going to be judged and have destruction at armageddon. thats what that scripture means

the book of Mormon, is added later, it was "found"so many centuries after the Book of Revelation was written that i have a hard time believing it to be the word of God Almighty.

Maybe the God of this system, but not God Almighty

 

[Katzpur]

One of the very last passages in the bible tells us that if anything that is added or removed from the bible, those who do this are going to be judged and have destruction at armageddon. thats what that scripture means

"The Bible" didn't even exist at the time John received Revelation. Truth be known, neither did his gospel or three epistles. The warning applied to Revelation. Period. I never cease to be amazed at how many people don't know this.

the book of Mormon, is added later, it was "found"so many centuries after the Book of Revelation was written that i have a hard time believing it to be the word of God Almighty.

The Book of Mormon was never added to the Bible, locky. I guess you're one of those people who feels justified in telling God it's time for Him to shut up. Not a good idea.

 

[lockyfan]

it was never added no, but it is something that was found later on. Honestly i believe and follow the bible, so if the book of Mormon is not part of it, I dont listen to it. I am notr knocking your religion, just vsaying I wont listen to it.

Also if you read revelation, you would understand that yes maybe the "bible" didnt exist then, the scrolls of the Old testement did and so did the letters that later formed the new testement or most of them anyway.

Also read revelation,the beginning is for the conmgregations of the time, but the end is about the destruction of the world as we know it today and the start of Gods kingdom on the earth

 

[Watchmen]

LDS do not teach that all Christian believers shall have eternal life. Eternal life is to live with Heavenly Father and to live the kind of life that He lives.

Doctrine and Covenants 132
25 Broad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the deaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they receive me not, neither do they abide in my law.
26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God.

27 The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall not be forgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye commit no murder wherein ye shed innocent blood, and assent unto my death, after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter into my glory, but shall be damned, saith the Lord.




We aren't getting along? Why is that?

It depends on how you define "eternal life." If you mean that highest level of the Celestial Kingdom where we progress to become like God, then you're right - it's not for everyone. However, there will be many believers who are with God in Heaven - there are many mansions in the house of the Father.

 

[Watchmen]

It seems you don't like for me to share information. I use LDS sources and that upsets you? As for the information I provided on the Plan of Salvation, that is what your church teaches to the Aaronic Priesthood holders. And the information about the degrees of glory came from your scriptures. The information about what happened at Carthage Jail also came from Church History, a six-volume set available in LDS bookstores. I know that the Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price are considered canonical sources in the LDS church. I've never tried to keep that a secret.

Nothing Katzpur said is inaccurate.

1. You use non-canon sources (which you admit).

2. The answers you give are not necessarily the answers we'd give (that's important because it's usually safe to presume that those within the religion no more about it and have a better understanding than those without).

3. Whenever we interact with you things get heated.

Case in point: your response to Katzpur. She never use the word "upset" - she was just clarifying for another poster. You didn't need to respond at all, but choose to. And in your response, you played the victim and framed Katzpur's post as being "upset" when all she was doing was stating the facts for someone else. It's clear to every LDS poster here that you love to provoke.

 

[Watchmen]

This thread is in Same Faith Debates and is evidently open to Christians. I am a Christian. The LDS scriptures are authoritative. The other quotes are from LDS sources. Are you suggesting that all manuals, all books written by LDS, and all conference talks can be misleading? Is it okay to give a conference talk that will mislead LDS? Is lds.org a bad place to go for information about Mormonism?

The above is an example of provoking.

 

[Watchmen]

Considering that the purpose of these forums is "Religous Education," I would think that any question submitted to the forum would be open for responses and discussions from all members of the board. If it should be private, then use the PM method or e-mail.

By "out of date manuals" do you mean that the LDS gospel has changed from the time that said manuals were published? Why are these not authorative if they were used to teach the members of your church? Why are the words of your leaders, past and present, not to be believed? I suppose that sermons given during your conferences or articles in the LDS publications would hold no weight, either. I find this rather odd, to say the least.

Edward

As usual, things are being twisted around because of alethenia (or whatever her name is). It's not that things change, etc. It's that the LDS here have a better knowledge and understanding of the things she's quoting from. Also, the things she's quoting from aren't necessarily doctrine. It's easy for her to find some old manual and quote, but the LDS here prefer to stick with our canon.

 

[Watchmen]

How about the following Silvermoon? Is the following reliable information or is it misleading?

"These truths are absolute. Members of this Church invite all people to learn them and to qualify for eternal life. We invite all to gain faith in God the Eternal Father and in His Son, Jesus Christ, to repent, to receive the Holy Ghost, to obtain the blessings of the temple, to make and keep sacred covenants, and to endure to the end." - Elder Russell M. Nelson, Celestial Marriage, 178th Semiannual General Conference, October 2008
Celestial Marriage

Reliable.

Now lets see where you go with it.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

Non-LDS, there are times when LDS are too busy or just not paying attention to your questions. There are times when they have given incomplete answers or misleading ones.

What is eternal life according to LDS teachings?
Eternal Life


Eternal life is the phrase used in scripture to define the quality of life that our Eternal Father lives. The Lord declared, "This is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man" (Moses 1:39). Immortality is to live forever as a resurrected being. Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, everyone will receive this gift. Eternal life, or exaltation, is to live in God's presence and to continue as families (see D&C 131:1–4). Like immortality, this gift is made possible through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. However, to inherit eternal life requires our "obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel" (Articles of Faith 1:3).
LDS.org - Topic Definition

How can a person be saved according to LDS teachings?

1. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

2. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

3. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
The Articles of Faith

Baptism is one of the essential ordinances and only LDS baptism is acceptable. Only baptized LDS can receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands.

What is the Gospel according to LDS teachings?

The gospel is our Heavenly Father's plan of happiness. The central doctrine of the gospel is the Atonement of Jesus Christ. The Prophet Joseph Smith said, "The first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost" (Articles of Faith 1:4).
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&index=7&sourceId=dc5e2f2324d98010VgnVCM1000004d82620a

 

[ἀλήθεια]

The Gift of the Holy Ghost is the constant companionship that LDS can have by remaining worthy. Non-LDS can be influenced by the Holy Ghost but cannot have His constant companionship.

 

[zomg]

it was never added no, but it is something that was found later on. Honestly i believe and follow the bible, so if the book of Mormon is not part of it, I dont listen to it. I am notr knocking your religion, just vsaying I wont listen to it.

Also if you read revelation, you would understand that yes maybe the "bible" didnt exist then, the scrolls of the Old testement did and so did the letters that later formed the new testement or most of them anyway.

Also read revelation,the beginning is for the conmgregations of the time, but the end is about the destruction of the world as we know it today and the start of Gods kingdom on the earth

wut?
You already knew Revelation wasn't the last book written? Then Katzpur blows that argument out of the window and you shrug it off. Sigh.

More word from God pwnz :yes:

 

[edward]

Nothing Katzpur said is inaccurate.

1. You use non-canon sources (which you admit).

Is this bad???

2. The answers you give are not necessarily the answers we'd give (that's important because it's usually safe to presume that those within the religion no more about it and have a better understanding than those without).

This IS important because no LDS person is an offical spokesperson for their church. Therefore, one may get several answers from different LDS members. That is not different than a non-member quoting from LDS sources.

3. Whenever we interact with you things get heated.

Who's fault is that?

Case in point: your response to Katzpur. She never use the word "upset" - she was just clarifying for another poster.

No, she used the word "heated."
Edward

 

[McBell]

it was never added no, but it is something that was found later on. Honestly i believe and follow the bible, so if the book of Mormon is not part of it, I dont listen to it. I am notr knocking your religion, just vsaying I wont listen to it.

That is fine with me.

Also if you read revelation, you would understand that yes maybe the "bible" didnt exist then, the scrolls of the Old testement did and so did the letters that later formed the new testement or most of them anyway.

Also, if you actually read what is written you will see that the verse you cling to in Revelation would only apply to the scroll on which it is written, NOT the whole Bible, nor even the scriptures not contained in the Bible.

Also read revelation,the beginning is for the conmgregations of the time, but the end is about the destruction of the world as we know it today and the start of Gods kingdom on the earth

Says you.
Personally, I will trust people who have a better understanding of the Bible and the Scriptures from which the Bible rose from over you.
No offense.