Why Dont Christians Accept the Book of Mormon as Valid?

[Christian Pilgrim]

I put nothing in your mouth. I refuse to discuss Catholicism with you, particularly on a thread that is supposed to be about the Book of Mormon. In answer to your question with regards to Mormonism, no.

Please tell me what I posted for you to write that I have trashed Catholicism. It seems like a slanderous statement if you cannot support what you wrote about me trashing Catholicism.

Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice.

But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth.

Their wives likewise must[1] be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things. - Apostle Paul

This thread is not about Catholicism. Please feel free to trash Catholic theology elsewhere. I do not agree with your statement. Essential doctrines are clarified, not changed.

 

[sojourner]

As a Christian, I do not accept the Book of Mormon as being from God. The main reason is that I get a different gospel and a different Jesus when my source of divine revelation comes from only the Bible. When I use the Bible as the authorative source of truth, my understanding of God is driven by the Bible alone with the illumination of the Spirit of God. When I see others used additional sources of authority such as the Catholic Magestrium, or LDS authority, I personally find that the Christian doctrines change in some crucial areas. As a question back to you as a Mormon, why do you need another Testament of Jesus Christ? Do you believe that Old and New Testaments to be incomplete and untrustworthy revelation from God?

In what way are the LDS authority, the Catholic Magesterium, or any other Spirit-led, extra-Biblical source any different from your personal spirit-led experiences? Maybe you're the one that's "wrong," and not them. Or maybe everyone has some modicum of truth to their Traditions, that speaks to the Divine in a unique way...

 

[sojourner]

It teaches that there are more errors in the Bible than there are in the Book of Mormon for the simple reason that the Bible has been transcribed hundreds of times and the Book of Mormon only once.

The only problem with this is that the one translation was carried out by one person. It's always better to have a team working on the translation. In light of that, I'd have to say that the current translations we have of the Bible are truer than the translation we have of the BOM.

 

[sojourner]

when the Catholic Church or LDS Church begins to add to their particular accepted Scriptures, the essential doctrines can and do change. Would you agree with this statement?

Exactly what has the Catholic Church added?
Don't you agree that subtracting would have the same effect?
Isn't that what the Protestants did during the Reformation?
The Ethiopian canon is the largest. I don't notice you running off to join them.

 

[LittleNipper]

OK. So you're limiting God. Got it.

GOD is a SPIRIT and not a human. SPIRIT is unlimited. Having a body limits one to such. So who is limiting GOD ---- CHRISTIANS or Mormons?

 

[Watchmen]

GOD is a SPIRIT and not a human. SPIRIT is unlimited. Having a body limits one to such. So who is limiting GOD ---- CHRISTIANS or Mormons?

No - a glorified, perfect, immortal body has no limits.

Nice to see that rather than defend your claim against my argument you just make up a new claim.

 

[LittleNipper]

In what way are the LDS authority, the Catholic Magesterium, or any other Spirit-led, extra-Biblical source any different from your personal spirit-led experiences? Maybe you're the one that's "wrong," and not them. Or maybe everyone has some modicum of truth to their Traditions, that speaks to the Divine in a unique way...

Does a loving FATHER speak directly to HIS children or by way of a supposed servant? I believe GOD will speak to whomever is willing to place their faith and trust in HIM alone. We are in the age of grace. CHRIST has risen and we are not bound by the letter of the LAW because CHRIST has fulfilled the LAW for us. Pastors are shepherds who help to feed the flock. They are not above the flock, but servants to it.

The mormons do not have pastors. They have a prophet and he tells the mormons what everything means and what to believe. I believe I am above that. I am a brother of CHRIST and a SAINT. I must answer directly to my FATHER for my wrongs and not to any prophet.

I do not limit GOD capacity to protect HIS WORD nor hold it unaffected by the errors on man. GOD has provided us with the original Old Testament canon that date to the time of JESUS CHRIST. We need not fear that GOD's truth has been lost or stolen...

 

[Watchmen]

Does a loving FATHER speak directly to HIS children or by way of a supposed servant? I believe GOD will speak to whomever is willing to place their faith and trust in HIM alone. We are in the age of grace. CHRIST has risen and we are not bound by the letter of the LAW because CHRIST has fulfilled the LAW for us. Pastors are shepherds who help to feed the flock. They are not above the flock, but servants to it.

The mormons do not have pastors. They have a prophet and he tells the mormons what everything means and what to believe. I believe I am above that. I am a brother of CHRIST and a SAINT. I must answer directly to my FATHER for my wrongs and not to any prophet.

I do not limit GOD capacity to protect HIS WORD nor hold it unaffected by the errors on man. GOD has provided us with the original Old Testament canon that date to the time of JESUS CHRIST. We need not fear that GOD's truth has been lost or stolen...

To the part in bold. You continue to show your ignorance YET AGAIN!!!!!

Nice to see you have a superiority complex too!!!

I'm on my way out the door - will post more later to show your ignorance.

 

[Katzpur]

Does a loving FATHER speak directly to HIS children or by way of a supposed servant?

Both.

[/quote]I believe GOD will speak to whomever is willing to place their faith and trust in HIM alone.[/quote]Me too.

We are in the age of grace. CHRIST has risen and we are not bound by the letter of the LAW because CHRIST has fulfilled the LAW for us. Pastors are shepherds who help to feed the flock. They are not above the flock, but servants to it.

Agreed.

The mormons do not have pastors.

Of course they do.

They have a prophet and he tells the mormons what everything means and what to believe.

And then he tells them to follow the promptings of the Spirit, who will confirm the truth of his words to them.

I believe I am above that.

Clearly.

I am a brother of CHRIST and a SAINT.

I am a sister of Christ and a Saint.

I must answer directly to my FATHER for my wrongs and not to any prophet.

I have never answered to a prophet for my wrongs.

I do not limit GOD capacity to protect HIS WORD nor hold it unaffected by the errors on man.

I don't either. It's by living prophets that He is does so.

GOD has provided us with the original Old Testament canon that date to the time of JESUS CHRIST. We need not fear that GOD's truth has been lost or stolen...

You're wrong about that. Sorry.

 

[LittleNipper]

No - a glorified, perfect, immortal body has no limits.

Nice to see that rather than defend your claim against my argument you just make up a new claim.

Sorry, but it is limited to time and space. JESUS himself said that HE needed to retrun to the FATHER so that the COMFORTOR could come. HE was going to prepare a place for HIS chosen.

 

[LittleNipper]

To the part in bold. You continue to show your ignorance YET AGAIN!!!!!

Nice to see you have a superiority complex too!!!

I'm on my way out the door - will post more later to show your ignorance.

So you do not listen to your prophet? You are allowed to ignore what your prophet states and still be a "mormon" in good standing within that organization. The answer is either yes or no.

My works are but filthy rags ---- how do your works measure up to that?

 

[LittleNipper]

Both.

I believe GOD will speak to whomever is willing to place their faith and trust in HIM alone.[/quote]Me too.

Agreed.

Of course they do.

And then he tells them to follow the promptings of the Spirit, who will confirm the truth of his words to them.

Clearly.

I am a sister of Christ and a Saint.

I have never answered to a prophet for my wrongs.

I don't either. It's by living prophets that He is does so.

You're wrong about that. Sorry.[/quote]


So you have a paid pastor/minister? The Dead Sea Scrolls
Sorry, you are wrong. The Dead Sea Scrolls date to about 150 BCE. JESUS himself read from the Jerusalem canon of the OLD TESTAMENT not much younger...

 

[sojourner]

Does a loving FATHER speak directly to HIS children or by way of a supposed servant? I believe GOD will speak to whomever is willing to place their faith and trust in HIM alone. We are in the age of grace. CHRIST has risen and we are not bound by the letter of the LAW because CHRIST has fulfilled the LAW for us. Pastors are shepherds who help to feed the flock. They are not above the flock, but servants to it.

The mormons do not have pastors. They have a prophet and he tells the mormons what everything means and what to believe. I believe I am above that. I am a brother of CHRIST and a SAINT. I must answer directly to my FATHER for my wrongs and not to any prophet.

I do not limit GOD capacity to protect HIS WORD nor hold it unaffected by the errors on man. GOD has provided us with the original Old Testament canon that date to the time of JESUS CHRIST. We need not fear that GOD's truth has been lost or stolen...

God speaks to us in lots of ways. I suspect God may speak through church leaders, just as God does to individuals in those churches.

No, we are not bound by the letter of the Law. Are you saying, then, that Mormons can believe what they wish about Christ, because we are not bound to the Law? Are you saying that homosexual marriage is OK, because we are not bound to the Law?
church leaders speak to us about "the sense of the community" -- those things that is good for us to hold in common.
Pastors are servants of the flock, but they are also leaders of the flock.

The OT canon does not date to the time of Christ. The canon, as we now have it dates from the 400's.

No, we do not need to fear that Truth has been lost.

 

[sojourner]

The Dead Sea Scrolls date to about 150 BCE. JESUS himself read from the Jerusalem canon of the OLD TESTAMENT not much younger...

First of all, Jesus would not have referred to the scriptures as either "old testament" or "canon."
The scriptures, themselves existed, but they were neither considered "old" or "canon."
Secondly, I don't know of any canon that originated in Jerusalem.

 

[LittleNipper]

God speaks to us in lots of ways. I suspect God may speak through church leaders, just as God does to individuals in those churches.

No, we are not bound by the letter of the Law. Are you saying, then, that Mormons can believe what they wish about Christ, because we are not bound to the Law? Are you saying that homosexual marriage is OK, because we are not bound to the Law?
church leaders speak to us about "the sense of the community" -- those things that is good for us to hold in common.
Pastors are servants of the flock, but they are also leaders of the flock.

The OT canon does not date to the time of Christ. The canon, as we now have it dates from the 400's.

No, we do not need to fear that Truth has been lost.

Homosexual marriage will simply not be blessed. Christians are to behave out of love for what CHRIST has accomplished and not out of fear of loss of salvation. We never have to fear that truth will be lost. GOD is truth and those that worship HIM do so in spirit and in truth.

The Testament that JESUS fulfilled was already very established by the time JESUS was born and HE personally read, supported, and made references to that testament. Nothing was lost from OLD TESTAMENT up to that time.

 

[Watchmen]

So you do not listen to your prophet? You are allowed to ignore what your prophet states and still be a "mormon" in good standing within that organization. The answer is either yes or no.

My works are but filthy rags ---- how do your works measure up to that?

We are counseled to pray about the words of the prophet and the Spirit reveals to us whether those words are from God or not.

Example: the leaders of the church sent a letter asking us to support Prop 8. I disagreed and voted no. I am still a member in good standing.

 

[LittleNipper]

We are counseled to pray about the words of the prophet and the Spirit reveals to us whether those words are from God or not.

Example: the leaders of the church sent a letter asking us to support Prop 8. I disagreed and voted no. I am still a member in good standing.

And how did your Mormon church react when you told them how you would vote?
See, the Bible and not my thoughts or feelings is the standard I follow.

 

[LittleNipper]

First of all, Jesus would not have referred to the scriptures as either "old testament" or "canon."
The scriptures, themselves existed, but they were neither considered "old" or "canon."
Secondly, I don't know of any canon that originated in Jerusalem.

All the books of the Old Testament existed and were in common use as temple text by the time JESUS was reading them and explaining in that temple at age 12.

 

[Watchmen]

And how did your Mormon church react when you told them how you would vote?

The Mormon Church had no reaction. What reaction did you expect?

See, the Bible and not my thoughts or feelings is the standard I follow.

I too follow the Bible. I also follow the Spirit.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

I too follow the Bible. I also follow the Spirit.

Do you follow God the Holy Spirit, or another Spirit?

Acts 5

Ananias and Sapphira
5:1 But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property, 2 and with his wife's knowledge he kept back for himself some of the proceeds and brought only a part of it and laid it at the apostles' feet. 3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land? 4 While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.” 5 When Ananias heard these words, he fell down and breathed his last. And great fear came upon all who heard of it. 6 The young men rose and wrapped him up and carried him out and buried him.
7 After an interval of about three hours his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 And Peter said to her, “Tell me whether you [1] sold the land for so much.” And she said, “Yes, for so much.” 9 But Peter said to her, “How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.” 10 Immediately she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. When the young men came in they found her dead, and they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11 And great fear came upon the whole church and upon all who heard of these things.