Why Dont Christians Accept the Book of Mormon as Valid?

[Watchmen]

The great nation is found in the writings of the BoM and it is this great nation's experience that testifies of Christ.

I see all of you continue to shift your arguments.

Very telling, it is.

 

[LittleNipper]

The great nation is found in the writings of the BoM and it is this great nation's experience that testifies of Christ.

I see all of you continue to shift your arguments.

Very telling, it is.

How does a nation which cannot be proven to have ever existed (let alone the fact that it no longer does) testify of CHRIST. Is CHRIST as unreal and fallible as the nation of bountiful?

My arguents are not limited to merely one or two points, but nearly everything concerning the book of mormon. One point leads to another leads to another. The fact that people actually believe such at the expense of what the Bible says seems very sad.

 

[zomg]

I have to say, LittleNipper, your argument is quite weak. You are up in arms about God commanded Nephi to kill ONE man yet are just fine with whole nations being annihilated.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

I have to say, LittleNipper, your argument is quite weak. You are up in arms about God commanded Nephi to kill ONE man yet are just fine with whole nations being annihilated.

Hey,

Why do you guys pick on LittleNipper? As we all know, the Mormon Faith cannot be supported by the 13 or 14 Epistles of Paul, or the rest of Scriptures. If you think my view is wrong, maybe we can start a new thread to see if the Bible alone can support the LDS Faith. My presupposition is that the Mormon claim can only be supported by the additiona three Mormon Books of Revelation. Apart from those, then the Mormon Faith cannot stand or exist. And that is why as a Christian, I reject the Book of Mormon as being from the God of the Bible. I think MadHatter was inspired when he started this interesting thread. The three revelational books of Mormonism changes historic Christianity to something completely different than the originial (IMO).

 

[zomg]

Laban wasn't just a drunk. Let's take a look in Chapter 3 of first Nephi.

11 And we cast lots—who of us should go in unto the house of Laban. And it came to pass that the lot fell upon Laman; and Laman went in unto the house of Laban, and he talked with him as he sat in his house.
12 And he desired of Laban the records which were engraven upon the plates of brass, which contained the genealogy of my father.
13 And behold, it came to pass that Laban was angry, and thrust him out from his presence; and he would not that he should have the records. Wherefore, he said unto him: Behold thou art a robber, and I will slay thee.

Exodus 20:16- Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Exodus 20:13- Thou shalt not kill

Laman books it out of there and the brothers have a discussion. Laman and Lemuel are ready to give up. Nephi says nuh-uh. He says they need to plates and lists reasons in verse 19 and 20. 1- "preserve unto our children the language of our fathers" and 2 - "preserve unto them the words which have been spoken by the mouth of all the holy prophets..."

So the brothers agree to go gather up all their wealth they had previously left behind and offer Laban a trade.

24 And it came to pass that we went in unto Laban, and desired him that he would give unto us the records which were engraven upon the plates of brass, for which we would give unto him our gold, and our silver, and all our precious things.
25 And it came to pass that when Laban saw our property, and that it was exceedingly great, he did lust after it, insomuch that he thrust us out, and sent his servants to slay us, that he might obtain our property.
26 And it came to pass that we did flee before the servants of Laban, and we were obliged to leave behind our property, and it fell into the hands of Laban.

Again with the Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:17- Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ***, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.
Exodus 20:13- Thou shalt not kill.
Exodus 20:- Thou shalt not steal.

 

[sojourner]

How do I know them any differently than they may be presently read?

Try the Hebrew and Greek versions. Plus, Jesus knew them differently that we do.

 

[LittleNipper]

I have to say, LittleNipper, your argument is quite weak. You are up in arms about God commanded Nephi to kill ONE man yet are just fine with whole nations being annihilated.

It is so much more than that. It is the why it was done and the how of it. Was dropping bombs on the poor women and little children of the beautiful cities of Germany righteous? Was dropping the A bombs on 2 cultural cities of Japan correct?

I'm going to say yes. They reaped what they sowed and those nations suffered.
At least I'm glad to say that the United States did not deceive either the Japs nor the Huns. GOD would NEVER ask anyone to be deceptive

 

[LittleNipper]

Laban wasn't just a drunk. Let's take a look in Chapter 3 of first Nephi.



Exodus 20:16- Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Exodus 20:13- Thou shalt not kill

Laman books it out of there and the brothers have a discussion. Laman and Lemuel are ready to give up. Nephi says nuh-uh. He says they need to plates and lists reasons in verse 19 and 20. 1- "preserve unto our children the language of our fathers" and 2 - "preserve unto them the words which have been spoken by the mouth of all the holy prophets..."

So the brothers agree to go gather up all their wealth they had previously left behind and offer Laban a trade.



Again with the Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:17- Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ***, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.
Exodus 20:13- Thou shalt not kill.
Exodus 20:- Thou shalt not steal.

But copies of all the text existed in the Temple and among the scribes. A "Laban" could not have had claim to any priviately owned text unavailable to the rest of Israel. The Jews speak Hebrew to this very day. There are/were no Indians anywhere in the New World who spoke/wrote in any form of Hebrew when the Spanish arrived. SO exactly what would have been a "Nephi's" point? Such excuses are/were of no spiritual value.

 

[LittleNipper]

Try the Hebrew and Greek versions. Plus, Jesus knew them differently that we do.

JESUS was raised as a JEW. HE would have known Hebrew. I'm an American who speaks English. So of course I would read English translations. But one may learn GREEK or HEBREW and read the text in the original tongue.

 

[LittleNipper]

The primary purposes of the book of mormon seem to be to bring the understanding of the Bible into question, to establish another belief structure, and to create confusion as to the true nature of GOD and HIS purpose for HIS creation.

 

[sojourner]

JESUS was raised as a JEW. HE would have known Hebrew. I'm an American who speaks English. So of course I would read English translations. But one may learn GREEK or HEBREW and read the text in the original tongue.

What Jesus knew doesn't help you at all. We don't know what Jesus knew. The Christianity that developed out of those first believeing communities is vastly different from the kind of religion that Jesus practiced.

The point being, we can't claim a "direct line" of knowledge or revelation clear back to Jesus. Not even those churches in the Apostolic Succession can claim that. They can come close, but we all know when close counts, don't we!

The lure of Mormonism is their claim that they "bridge that gap" through special revelation.

 

[Watchmen]

It is so much more than that. It is the why it was done and the how of it. Was dropping bombs on the poor women and little children of the beautiful cities of Germany righteous? Was dropping the A bombs on 2 cultural cities of Japan correct?

I'm going to say yes. They reaped what they sowed and those nations suffered.
At least I'm glad to say that the United States did not deceive either the Japs nor the Huns. GOD would NEVER ask anyone to be deceptive

Is it your position that God commanded the US to drop the bombs on Japan?

 

[Watchmen]

The primary purposes of the book of mormon seem to be to bring the understanding of the Bible into question, to establish another belief structure, and to create confusion as to the true nature of GOD and HIS purpose for HIS creation.

Wrong answer. Thanks for playing.

The primary purpose of the BoM is to bring people to Christ (its title page/introduction states as much).

 

[sojourner]

Hey,

Why do you guys pick on LittleNipper? As we all know, the Mormon Faith cannot be supported by the 13 or 14 Epistles of Paul, or the rest of Scriptures. If you think my view is wrong, maybe we can start a new thread to see if the Bible alone can support the LDS Faith. My presupposition is that the Mormon claim can only be supported by the additiona three Mormon Books of Revelation. Apart from those, then the Mormon Faith cannot stand or exist. And that is why as a Christian, I reject the Book of Mormon as being from the God of the Bible. I think MadHatter was inspired when he started this interesting thread. The three revelational books of Mormonism changes historic Christianity to something completely different than the originial (IMO).

You've touched on something that I think is very significant. The Mormon faith is revelatory in nature. Their additional scriptures are revelatory, and the role of their modern prophets is revelatory. That was what was special about Joseph Smith. Things were revealed to him.

That stands in juxtaposition to the fact that the preponderance of the canon scripture is not revelatory. Therefore, since Mormonism is a revealed faith, and orthodox Xy is a witnessed faith, ne'er the twain shall meet. The Mormon faith cannot stand on witnessed scripture alone, for it is a revealed faith. However, any attempts on their part to turn orthodox Xy into a revealed (as opposed to a witnessed) faith is an exercise in futility, because it just ain't that kind of animal.

The best they can do is to say that their faith has been revealed to them in a special way. But that revelation cannot supercede a faith that has always been based on witness.

 

[budhabee]

Why don't Christians accept the Book of Mormon to be true? It testifys of Christ our Savior, as the Messiah, the Great Mediator. And it's a solid Book, it has substance.

You don't believe there is any way that Christ would have appeared to his "Sheep of another fold" (mentioned in the bible) in the americas after his ressurection. Or that Both God and Christ would appear to a modern day prophet.

Yet, they believe that God, or even the "Mother Mary" would speak to 6 old women in Bosnia?

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on why you think the way you do.

Except they did not believe that black people are human. That is a major flaw. Although they are trying to get rid of that concept the best they can these days those ol cowboys in Arizona, New Mexico and Nevada, hell and Texas still somewhat believe it. Course they didn't need the Morman religion to incite that idea. White people have a cold concept. They come from cold country.

 

[Katzpur]

Except they did not believe that black people are human. That is a major flaw.

You are totally up in the night. Joseph Smith was just about as color-blind as any man alive in 19th century America. He even ran for President on an abolitionist platform. Unless you just like to look uninformed, I would suggest that you do your homework before posting any more nonsense like this post.

 

[LittleNipper]

What Jesus knew doesn't help you at all. We don't know what Jesus knew. The Christianity that developed out of those first believeing communities is vastly different from the kind of religion that Jesus practiced.

The point being, we can't claim a "direct line" of knowledge or revelation clear back to Jesus. Not even those churches in the Apostolic Succession can claim that. They can come close, but we all know when close counts, don't we!

The lure of Mormonism is their claim that they "bridge that gap" through special revelation.

JESUS didn't practice any religion. JESUS filled a relationship between GOD and man. Mormonism doen't bridge a gap, it creates a new set of rules and works for people to "feel" warm and good about themselves.

 

[LittleNipper]

Wrong answer. Thanks for playing.

The primary purpose of the BoM is to bring people to Christ (its title page/introduction states as much).

The introduction to the bom was written by other men if not Joseph Smith. The Bible already brought/brings men to CHRIST.

 

[LittleNipper]

You are totally up in the night. Joseph Smith was just about as color-blind as any man alive in 19th century America. He even ran for President on an abolitionist platform. Unless you just like to look uninformed, I would suggest that you do your homework before posting any more nonsense like this post.

To think a prophet would run for President and not see the fact that he would lose...

 

[Watchmen]

The introduction to the bom was written by other men if not Joseph Smith. The Bible already brought/brings men to CHRIST.

The BoM has brought and continues to bring people to CHRIST.