Why Dont Christians Accept the Book of Mormon as Valid?

[Watchmen]

Thanks for your answers! What do you mean that the Lord is the Savior of all? Do you consider yourself to have been saved, and why?

Yes - I have been saved because I accepted Jesus Christ and when I did that I was born again. And because I'm saved, I do and will continue to do all that he asks of me.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

Yes - I have been saved because I accepted Jesus Christ and when I did that I was born again. And because I'm saved, I do and will continue to do all that he asks of me.

Really? Everyone is guaranteed eternal life with Heavenly Father just because they accepted Christ? They are born again based on that? So are you disagreeing with the LDS third Article of Faith and what is taught in your auxillary classes?

"WE BELIEVE that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel."
Third Article of Faith

Individual salvation is "...that which man merits through his own acts
through life and by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel."
- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 134

Immortality has been accomplished by the Savior's sacrifice. Eternal life hangs in the balance awaiting the works of men. This progress toward eternal life is a matter of achieving perfection. Living all the commandments guarantees total forgiveness of sins and assures one of exaltation through that perfection which comes by complying with the formula the Lord gave us.
- Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 208

He commands us all to receive certain ordinances:


We must be baptized and confirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ.

We must receive the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

We must receive the temple endowment.

We must be married for time and eternity.

Gospel Principles, Exaltation, Chapter 47


Just as surely as our Savior became the author of our eternal salvation, so must we through that same degree of obedience become the authors of our own exaltation.-Henry D. Moyle, General Conference, April 1950

"Have ye walked, keeping yourselves blameless before God? Could ye say, if ye were called to die at this time, within yourselves, that ye have been sufficiently humble? That your garments have been cleansed...? Behold, are ye stripped of pride? I say unto you, if ye are not ye are not prepared to meet God. Behold ye must prepare quickly; for the kingdom of heaven is soon at hand, and such an one hath not eternal life. Behold, I say, is there one among you who is not stripped of envy? I say unto you that such an one is not prepared; and I would that he should prepare quickly, for the hour is close at hand, and he knoweth not when the time shall come; for such an one is not found guiltless."(Alma 5:27-32)

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

Yes - I have been saved because I accepted Jesus Christ and when I did that I was born again. And because I'm saved, I do and will continue to do all that he asks of me.

Nobody is saved because they think they have accepted Jesus Christ. And why do you personally think that you have been born again, because you accepted Jesus Christ into your heart? I don't think anyone can accept Jesus Christ into their hearts which results in reconciliation and eternal salvation. That is a contemporary idea that is not even in the Holy Bible. How can someone accept a Holy God when we are all born into this world as enemies of God, and are called children of darkness, children of disobedience, children of wrath, and children of the devil? The real biblical question is how can a Holy God accept a wretched sinner like me and you? To repeat a modern day unbiblical christian slogan doesn't mean much from my perspective. There are thousands in the world who think they accepted Jesus Christ into their hearts and are still dead in their sins and trespasses. That idea started in the 2nd great awakening with Charles Finney. It's interesting that Joseph Smith came on the religious scene at the same time as Charles Finney. They had many things in common in rejecting core historic Christian doctrine in regards to the biblical gospel. So, please tell me your understanding of the gospel of God that is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes?

The Righteous Shall Live by Faith

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith,as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.” - Rom 1:16-17

 

[Katzpur]

Fish-Hunter,

You, Watchmen and I all know that it wouldn't have made an ounce of difference how he'd answered your question. You would have found something to criticize no matter what's he'd said or how he'd worded it. That's why discussions with you are such a total waste of time.

I believe I have Jesus Christ's promise of salvation based on the fact that I have faith in His atoning sacrifice, I repented of my sins, was baptized by immersion by one holding the proper authority and received the Gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands, also by one holding the authority to confer that gift upon me. Having entered into a covenant relationship with my Savior, I have committed to stand as a witness for Him at all times and in all places. I have made a promise to continue to the best of my ability to keep His commandments, repenting as I fall short. If I do all of these things, if I "endure to the end," I will receive His gift of salvation.

Pick my statement apart to your heart's content, but don't expect a response from me. I'm not here to play your silly games.

 

[Watchmen]

Nobody is saved because they think they have accepted Jesus Christ. And why do you personally think that you have been born again, because you accepted Jesus Christ into your heart? I don't think anyone can accept Jesus Christ into their hearts which results in reconciliation and eternal salvation. That is a contemporary idea that is not even in the Holy Bible. How can someone accept a Holy God when we are all born into this world as enemies of God, and are called children of darkness, children of disobedience, children of wrath, and children of the devil? The real biblical question is how can a Holy God accept a wretched sinner like me and you? To repeat a modern day unbiblical christian slogan doesn't mean much from my perspective. There are thousands in the world who think they accepted Jesus Christ into their hearts and are still dead in their sins and trespasses. That idea started in the 2nd great awakening with Charles Finney. It's interesting that Joseph Smith came on the religious scene at the same time as Charles Finney. They had many things in common in rejecting core historic Christian doctrine in regards to the biblical gospel. So, please tell me your understanding of the gospel of God that is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes?

The Righteous Shall Live by Faith

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith,as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.” - Rom 1:16-17

I know I'm saved and I know I do His will.

Now - if you want to bash Mormons, start another thread. You derailing threads to spout your hate is getting tiresome.

 

[The-G-man]

Nobody is saved because they think they have accepted Jesus Christ. And why do you personally think that you have been born again, because you accepted Jesus Christ into your heart? I don't think anyone can accept Jesus Christ into their hearts which results in reconciliation and eternal salvation. That is a contemporary idea that is not even in the Holy Bible. How can someone accept a Holy God when we are all born into this world as enemies of God, and are called children of darkness, children of disobedience, children of wrath, and children of the devil? The real biblical question is how can a Holy God accept a wretched sinner like me and you? To repeat a modern day unbiblical christian slogan doesn't mean much from my perspective. There are thousands in the world who think they accepted Jesus Christ into their hearts and are still dead in their sins and trespasses. That idea started in the 2nd great awakening with Charles Finney. It's interesting that Joseph Smith came on the religious scene at the same time as Charles Finney. They had many things in common in rejecting core historic Christian doctrine in regards to the biblical gospel. So, please tell me your understanding of the gospel of God that is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes?

The Righteous Shall Live by Faith

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith,as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.” - Rom 1:16-17

Your disregard for all life is aweful, you believe we are all terrible sinners and in whatever way God let's us die or kills us, that it is too good for us, because we are 'children of the devil', you sound like a fundie, only they come out with this anti-human stuff.
But i agree with another point you made, I very much doubt you will get into heaven by just accepting Jesus alone, despite of what sort of life you lead. That makes it sound like you can do what you like as long as you believe in Jesus.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

I believe I have Jesus Christ's promise of salvation based on the fact that I have faith in His atoning sacrifice, I repented of my sins, was baptized by immersion by one holding the proper authority and received the Gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands, also by one holding the authority to confer that gift upon me. Having entered into a covenant relationship with my Savior, I have committed to stand as a witness for Him at all times and in all places. I have made a promise to continue to the best of my ability to keep His commandments, repenting as I fall short. If I do all of these things, if I "endure to the end," I will receive His gift of salvation.

Why do you have to wait for salvation if Watchmen already has it?

Yes - I have been saved because I accepted Jesus Christ and when I did that I was born again. And because I'm saved, I do and will continue to do all that he asks of me.

Pick my statement apart to your heart's content, but don't expect a response from me. I'm not here to play your silly games.

I saw no silly games being played by Christian Pilgrim.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

Your disregard for all life is aweful, you believe we are all terrible sinners and in whatever way God let's us die or kills us, that it is too good for us, because we are 'children of the devil', you sound like a fundie, only they come out with this anti-human stuff.
But i agree with another point you made, I very much doubt you will get into heaven by just accepting Jesus alone, despite of what sort of life you lead. That makes it sound like you can do what you like as long as you believe in Jesus.

You sound like you're anti-fundie.

A person has to be changed. A person must be born again. Someone who has been born again doesn't just go on serving Satan. The devils also believe and they tremble.

 

[themadhair]

You sound like you're anti-fundie.

Is that a bad thing?

 

[ἀλήθεια]

Is that a bad thing?

It all depends on how you look at it and who you are looking at it.

"For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another." (Titus 3:3)

 

[themadhair]

It all depends on how you look at it and who you are looking at it.

"For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another." (Titus 3:3)

Malice, envy, hateful and hating? Come on.

 

[Watchmen]

Really? Everyone is guaranteed eternal life with Heavenly Father just because they accepted Christ? They are born again based on that? So are you disagreeing with the LDS third Article of Faith and what is taught in your auxillary classes?

"WE BELIEVE that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel."
Third Article of Faith

Individual salvation is "...that which man merits through his own acts
through life and by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel."
- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 134

Immortality has been accomplished by the Savior's sacrifice. Eternal life hangs in the balance awaiting the works of men. This progress toward eternal life is a matter of achieving perfection. Living all the commandments guarantees total forgiveness of sins and assures one of exaltation through that perfection which comes by complying with the formula the Lord gave us.
- Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 208

He commands us all to receive certain ordinances:


We must be baptized and confirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ.

We must receive the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

We must receive the temple endowment.

We must be married for time and eternity.

Gospel Principles, Exaltation, Chapter 47


Just as surely as our Savior became the author of our eternal salvation, so must we through that same degree of obedience become the authors of our own exaltation.-Henry D. Moyle, General Conference, April 1950

"Have ye walked, keeping yourselves blameless before God? Could ye say, if ye were called to die at this time, within yourselves, that ye have been sufficiently humble? That your garments have been cleansed...? Behold, are ye stripped of pride? I say unto you, if ye are not ye are not prepared to meet God. Behold ye must prepare quickly; for the kingdom of heaven is soon at hand, and such an one hath not eternal life. Behold, I say, is there one among you who is not stripped of envy? I say unto you that such an one is not prepared; and I would that he should prepare quickly, for the hour is close at hand, and he knoweth not when the time shall come; for such an one is not found guiltless."(Alma 5:27-32)

I also said I do His will.

Anyway - this isn't the thread for this. Take your hate elsewhere or be reported.

 

[Watchmen]

I saw no silly games being played by Christian Pilgrim.

Then you're not paying attention.

 

[smitten508]

I know many LDS's that are genuinely good people. The religion is an excellent one to live by. I just wouldn't DIE by the religions core beliefs... I read the book of Mormon, and it is fairly entertaining. A good read. However, when the "original" copies of the golden plates were 'lost' it shows me that there is something amiss in its authenticity. The holy scripture of orthodox Christianity is found and dated sometimes 2000 yrs. This is why I do not accept the Mormon scripture as a testiment to Christianity, humanity or legitimacy...

 

[Watchmen]

I know many LDS's that are genuinely good people. The religion is an excellent one to live by. I just wouldn't DIE by the religions core beliefs... I read the book of Mormon, and it is fairly entertaining. A good read. However, when the "original" copies of the golden plates were 'lost' it shows me that there is something amiss in its authenticity. The holy scripture of orthodox Christianity is found and dated sometimes 2000 yrs. This is why I do not accept the Mormon scripture as a testiment to Christianity, humanity or legitimacy...

Great answer and welcome to the forums!

 

[Katzpur]

Why do you have to wait for salvation if Watchmen already has it?

Watchmen and I agree, I'm sure. He just worded his answer differently than I did. We LDS understand the concept of salvation from a number of different perspectives. He focused on one and I focused on another. And you focused on trying to make one or the other of us look either dishonest or stupid.

I saw no silly games being played by Christian Pilgrim.

No, I'm sure you didn't. Birds of a feather you know...

 

[Katzpur]

I know many LDS's that are genuinely good people. The religion is an excellent one to live by.

Thank you. I feel the same about Catholicism. My son will be marrying a Catholic girl in about 5 weeks and I absolutely adore her.

However, when the "original" copies of the golden plates were 'lost' it shows me that there is something amiss in its authenticity.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. Are you talking about the plates themselves? If so, they weren't lost. They were returned to the angel who directed Joseph Smith to them. A number of different individuals saw and handled them, though, so the fact that they actually did exist can in no way be disputed by the fact that we no longer have them. By the way, how do you feel about the authenticity of the tablets on which the Ten Commandments were written?

Welcome to the forum, by the way. I hope you enjoy yourself here.

 

[themadhair]

My son will be marrying a Catholic girl in about 5 weeks and I absolutely adore her.

What religion will the kids be raised as? I’m genuinely asking because different faith marriages in Ireland usually had the catholics win out on that one. Was wondering what the situation was there and between those two faiths.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

I know I'm saved and I know I do His will.

Now - if you want to bash Mormons, start another thread. You derailing threads to spout your hate is getting tiresome.

Please post anything that I wrote to validate your statement that I have bashed Mormon Christians. It seems some of you continue to attack my character without valid reasoning. Just please quote my in context and contents to support such apparent attack on my character. You wrote that I am a Mormon basher. Katz posted that I have bashed the Catholic Faith. Okay, that type of attack needs to be supported by what I wrote, otherwise you are both guilty of slander, which is clearly a sin against God. This should be an esasy thing to document because everything that I stated is posted somewhere.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

Your disregard for all life is aweful, you believe we are all terrible sinners and in whatever way God let's us die or kills us, that it is too good for us, because we are 'children of the devil', you sound like a fundie, only they come out with this anti-human stuff.
But i agree with another point you made, I very much doubt you will get into heaven by just accepting Jesus alone, despite of what sort of life you lead. That makes it sound like you can do what you like as long as you believe in Jesus.

I just try to get my understanding from biblical revelation. If I posted anything that is contrary to biblical revelation, please let me know and I will re-examine what I posted.