Why Evil?

[Skwim]

I don't care at all for what anyone has to say if it doesn't make sense to me .

Hey, you asked the question, not me.

I have no reason to do such a thing. Why would I accuse an abstract notion?

If you take the Bible as god's word then saying "A simple play of words" would be just that.

 

[rusra02]

Absolute BULL to all of that.

No REAL sane God would destroy the innocent, for the sin of others!

Thirty days, after watching him run daddy and mommy through with a sword, - is not marriage, - IT IS RAPE!

Also, the word they keep translating wife, - is also just woman. You may make her your woman! RAPE! They were ordered not to marry into these other groups.

That last sentence is a hoot.

While god permitted, - later he changed it, - thus his laws do not allow it. LOLOLOLOLO!

If it was in the laws - and they did it - obviously they considered it God's law.

And by the way - polygamy - is multiple wives (or husbands.) Concubines are Bought SEX SLAVES! No choice! Thus RAPE!

*

You are entitled to your opinions and I to mine. The woman captured in war may or may not have been agreeable to the marriage, but at least she was accorded that dignity of marriage. As I mentioned, God permitted polygamy for a time but regulated it to protect women.

 

[viole]

In the beginning God created everything. Even evil. However, God never used evil. Instead he allowed the Devil to take control of evil so that there would be a story so that he would glorify himself and all people would know that he is God and he executes judgement upon sin as he judges all things. He has a right to since he created all things. Any thoughts?

Why would God need to glorify Himself?

Question. Since he is, allegedely, omnipotent, could have He been able to glorify Himself, if He really need that, even without creating evil?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

In my view, the ultimate truth of this matter is that good and evil don't exist. All dualities dissolve into the Infinite.

 

[rusra02]

Well, it may not have been murder---the illegal taking of a human life---no laws being in effect, but it was certainly paedocide (the killing of children).

Is this suppose absolve god of killing them?

The children were incorrigibly wicked?

Sorry, but making up stuff doesn't cut it. It actually makes you a liar, liar pants on fire.

Forcing women into marriage and having sex with them amounts to rape. In order to avoid rape there has to be uncoerced agreement, which we know damn well was seldom if ever the case. Rape isn't mitigated by a forced marriage.


I'd ask you to visit post 25, but figure you wouldn't bother, so I've copied/pasted the relevant parts.

In 2 Samuel 12:11-12 (CEB) it says​

11 “This is what the Lord says: I am making trouble come against you from inside your own family. Before your very eyes I will take your wives away and give them to your friend, and he will have sex with your wives in broad daylight. 12 You did what you did secretly, but I will do what I am doing before all Israel in the light of day.”
​

Think these poor wives were willing sex objects? Hardly, which would make them victims of rape.

And in Zechariah 14;1-2 (CEB) it says

The day of the Lord
14 A day is coming that belongs to the Lord,
when that which has been plundered from you will be divided among you.
2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem for the battle,
the city will be captured,
the houses will be plundered,
and the women will be raped.
Half of the city will go forth into exile,
but what is left of the people won’t be eliminated from the city.​

So, obviously rape isn't off the list at all. God does allow it. Even demands it,

I think you are seriously mistaken. And if you accuse me of lying, at least have the courtesy to specify how I lied. The 2 verses you quoted does not mean that God approves rape. The first instance was God's judgment of David for his sin with Bathsheba, and was fulfilled when Absalom committed adultery with David's concubines. God allowed the circumstances to develop that made this possible but he did not induce Absalom to commit this crime. (2 Samuel 16:20-22)
The second is a prophecy. God foresaw the crimes committed against his people by God's enemies. He was certainly not condoning rape.
And as to children receiving the same judgment as their parents, as mankind's Creator, I believe Jehovah has every right to determine who should be spared or not. (Romans 9:20,21)

 

[truthofscripture]

Absolute BULL to all of that.

No REAL sane God would destroy the innocent, for the sin of others!

Thirty days, after watching him run daddy and mommy through with a sword, - is not marriage, - IT IS RAPE!

Also, the word they keep translating wife, - is also just woman. You may make her your woman! RAPE! They were ordered not to marry into these other groups.

That last sentence is a hoot.

While god permitted, - later he changed it, - thus his laws do not allow it. LOLOLOLOLO!

If it was in the laws - and they did it - obviously they considered it God's law.

And by the way - polygamy - is multiple wives (or husbands.) Concubines are Bought SEX SLAVES! No choice! Thus RAPE!

*

I am curious. How is running someone through with a sword rape? I thought it was killing. You also said that God commanded not to marry into other groups. He did such things to prevent Israel from being contaminated with false religion and paganism. Remember, they WERE for a time God's chosen nation, until they continuously broke the covenant with Him, and turned to paganism again, and again, and again. Anyway, how is running someone through with a sword rape?

 

[truthofscripture]

In my view, the ultimate truth of this matter is that good and evil don't exist. All dualities dissolve into the Infinite.

Is that Frank-in-stein or Fronk-en-steen? Any relation to Frode-er-rick?

 

[Ingledsva]

Spoken like someone who lives in a police state. You can't even imagine what life was like before policemen. Once upon a time, in the not so distant past, it was perfectly legal to murder your son or daughter. One could even murder their neighbor without fear of retribution from any kind of policeman or court. You have lived in this safe cocoon all your life, and can't even imagine what life was like 5000 years ago, long after the cave man.
Even as late as 200 years ago, the only justice for many in North America was Frontier Justice. Men who were outraged at the acts of others took it upon themselves to set things straight. One hundred and fifty years ago, people gave no thought to due process, but gathered mobs together with fiery propaganda, planning to wipe the Mormons from off of the earth, men, women and children. Of the 200 men that murdered Joseph and Hyrum Smith, not one was brought to justice. There was a complete breakdown of the justice system, and the Federal government did nothing to intervene.
When riots broke out over the Rodney King incident, the justice system broke down once again, and no one could rely on the police to do anything. The police wouldn't even go into the poor neighborhoods, let alone enforce the law. The only people who were safe from the looting and burning were those with their own guns. Individuals must ultimately take up the cause of justice, when there is no justice to be found. Our justice system is fragile, and very little stands between it and the complete collapse of our society.

That is very naive and not at all what happened. Before a system of laws was put into place, people had to find their own justice, and death was the penalty for almost everything. Kings ruled with blood and horror.

At the very least, they should mean that someone else does believe in such things. I'm not going to pretend that I don't believe just because there are people out there who haven't met God.

If you thought for one minute that you would have to take each and every person to court, every time you bought a loaf of bread, you would never buy bread. People bought and sold bread long before there was any kind of justice system. It is an act of faith. You wouldn't buy bread from someone, if you didn't trust them. Traditionally, taxes are paid to invisible beings - kings - men who most people have never seen. People trust or have faith that they will end up in prison if they don't pay their taxes, and if they don't have that faith (and many don't), they do end up in prison, or have their earnings garnered. If there was no penalty, people would stop paying taxes.

That sounds suspiciously like the creed of many atheists, who adopted it without ever doing a fair study of the Bible. Murder is never condoned, but killing is sometimes condoned. Sometimes it is right to kill someone. Sometimes it is right to employ slaves. I can't imagine that rape is ever condoned. Do you have a reference for that?

Dude - you are the one that is being naïve. Law did not pop into existence - with the Hebrew, from an invisible being.

Laws and so called moral codes, - are homegrown, - over time, - to fit their particular cultures. As we go global - some of those laws are changed to fit that global expansion.

I get a kick out of some of the things you listed as awful - before Moses' law.

Moses' law - gave them permission to do some of those very same AWFUL things you were claiming = They could KILL their sons and daughters. They could sell their children. Just like the atrocities committed against Mormons, - the Hebrew murdered the people of other religions!

This idea that things were awful, - then TA-DA, - magic wand, - things changed to wonderful - is ridiculous.

As for our justice system being fragile - it is actually stronger than any ancient system. You could still be going before the priests, and their mumbo-jumbo, which sometime included magic drinks, and magic words, to decide innocence or guilt.

Slavery is NEVER right! When you condoned such actions, - that you KNOW are wrong, - in defense - of your religion, - it speaks volumes to the rest of us.

As to rape - they could hold slaves forever, and pass them on as an inheritance. They could assign a male to a female slave, to breed more slaves, and the resulting children where the property of the slave owner. That is RAPE!

Lev 25:45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.

Lev 25:46 And you shall take them for inheritance to your sons after you, to hold for a possession; you may enslave them forever. But on your brothers, the sons of Israel, one over another, you shall not rule over him with severity.

Exo 21:4 If his master have given him a woman, and she have born him sons or daughters; the woman and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself. (Rape Breeding of Slaves)

They could have concubines - which are bought SEX SLAVES, = RAPE!

We know they could "marry" little girls - 3 years and 1 day old! = Pedophile RAPE!

"It is even stated that “A girl aged three years and a day may be acquired in marriage by coition, and if her deceased husband’s brother cohabited with her, she becomes his.” 80 http://www.global-dialogue.com/swidlerbooks/womenjudaism.htm Josephus, Antiquities, XIX, 354

How about little boys?

(Talmud, Sanhedrin 54b — see note 7): Our Rabbis taught: In the case of a male child, a young one is not regarded as on a par with an old one; but a young beast is treated as an old one [i.e, bestiality was punished regardless of the age of the beast]. What is meant by this? — Rab said: Pederasty with a child below nine years of age is not deemed as pederasty with a child above that. Samuel said: Pederasty with a child below three years is not treated as with a child above that...

They even kidnapped and RAPED their own women, from a Sacred site - Shiloh, - after they committed genocide against one of their own tribes, - murdering the majority of the females! = RAPE!

Jdg 21:20 Therefore they commanded the children of Benjamin, saying, Go and lie in wait in the vineyards;

Jdg 21:21 And see, and, behold, if the daughters of Shiloh come out to dance in dances, then come ye out of the vineyards, and seize you every man his woman of the daughters of Shiloh, and run/flee to the land of Benjamin. (RAPE)

If they spied a hot captive, and wanted her, they could take her home, let her scream for her dead family for a whopping 30 days, and then go in and take her = RAPE!

Deut 21:10 When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives,

Deut 21:13 and shall remove the clothing of her captivity from her, and shall live in your house, and shall morn for her father and her mother a month of days. And afterward shall go into her as master, making her your woman. (slavery, rape)

They were allowed to rape a woman once after the battle, - even the priests! = RAPE! We have writings discussing such.

"In the Talmud Bavli 12 we see in Kiddushin 21b the general agreement that a soldier is allowed one act of intercourse with a captive, but not on the battlefield. Another opinion is also mentioned by the jews: "..it seems to Rabbenu Tam 13 that a first cohabitation is permitted in war.."

Maimonides (1195a: 5:8:4): "A priest is permitted to have relations with a captive woman once, for permission to have relations with a captive woman is a concession to man's evil impulse; but he is not permitted to marry her, because she is a proselyte."

Maimonides (1195a: 5:8:2,3): "A soldier in the invading army may, if overpowered by passion, cohabit with a captive woman - [but] he is forbidden to cohabit with her a second time before he marries her - Coition with her is permitted only at the time when she is taken captive - he must not force her in the open field of battle - that is, he shall take her to a private place and cohabit with her."

Do you really think this Patriarchal crap - is superior - and from God?????

*

 

[truthofscripture]

Dude - you are the one that is being naïve. Law did not pop into existence - with the Hebrew, from an invisible being.

Laws and so called moral codes, - are homegrown, - over time, - to fit their particular cultures. As we go global - some of those laws are changed to fit that global expansion.

I get a kick out of some of the things you listed as awful - before Moses' law.

Moses' law - gave them permission to do some of those very same AWFUL things you were claiming = They could KILL their sons and daughters. They could sell their children. Just like the atrocities committed against Mormons, - the Hebrew murdered the people of other religions!

This idea that things were awful, - then TA-DA, - magic wand, - things changed to wonderful - is ridiculous.

As for our justice system being fragile - it is actually stronger than any ancient system. You could still be going before the priests, and their mumbo-jumbo, which sometime included magic drinks, and magic words, to decide innocence or guilt.

Slavery is NEVER right! When you condoned such actions, - that you KNOW are wrong, - in defense - of your religion, - it speaks volumes to the rest of us.

As to rape - they could hold slaves forever, and pass them on as an inheritance. They could assign a male to a female slave, to breed more slaves, and the resulting children where the property of the slave owner. That is RAPE!

Lev 25:45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.

Lev 25:46 And you shall take them for inheritance to your sons after you, to hold for a possession; you may enslave them forever. But on your brothers, the sons of Israel, one over another, you shall not rule over him with severity.

Exo 21:4 If his master have given him a woman, and she have born him sons or daughters; the woman and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself. (Rape Breeding of Slaves)

They could have concubines - which are bought SEX SLAVES, = RAPE!

We know they could "marry" little girls - 3 years and 1 day old! = Pedophile RAPE!

"It is even stated that “A girl aged three years and a day may be acquired in marriage by coition, and if her deceased husband’s brother cohabited with her, she becomes his.” 80 http://www.global-dialogue.com/swidlerbooks/womenjudaism.htm Josephus, Antiquities, XIX, 354

How about little boys?

(Talmud, Sanhedrin 54b — see note 7): Our Rabbis taught: In the case of a male child, a young one is not regarded as on a par with an old one; but a young beast is treated as an old one [i.e, bestiality was punished regardless of the age of the beast]. What is meant by this? — Rab said: Pederasty with a child below nine years of age is not deemed as pederasty with a child above that. Samuel said: Pederasty with a child below three years is not treated as with a child above that...

They even kidnapped and RAPED their own women, from a Sacred site - Shiloh, - after they committed genocide against one of their own tribes, - murdering the majority of the females! = RAPE!

Jdg 21:20 Therefore they commanded the children of Benjamin, saying, Go and lie in wait in the vineyards;

Jdg 21:21 And see, and, behold, if the daughters of Shiloh come out to dance in dances, then come ye out of the vineyards, and seize you every man his woman of the daughters of Shiloh, and run/flee to the land of Benjamin. (RAPE)

If they spied a hot captive, and wanted her, they could take her home, let her scream for her dead family for a whopping 30 days, and then go in and take her = RAPE!

Deut 21:10 When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives,

Deut 21:13 and shall remove the clothing of her captivity from her, and shall live in your house, and shall morn for her father and her mother a month of days. And afterward shall go into her as master, making her your woman. (slavery, rape)

They were allowed to rape a woman once after the battle, - even the priests! = RAPE! We have writings discussing such.

"In the Talmud Bavli 12 we see in Kiddushin 21b the general agreement that a soldier is allowed one act of intercourse with a captive, but not on the battlefield. Another opinion is also mentioned by the jews: "..it seems to Rabbenu Tam 13 that a first cohabitation is permitted in war.."

Maimonides (1195a: 5:8:4): "A priest is permitted to have relations with a captive woman once, for permission to have relations with a captive woman is a concession to man's evil impulse; but he is not permitted to marry her, because she is a proselyte."

Maimonides (1195a: 5:8:2,3): "A soldier in the invading army may, if overpowered by passion, cohabit with a captive woman - [but] he is forbidden to cohabit with her a second time before he marries her - Coition with her is permitted only at the time when she is taken captive - he must not force her in the open field of battle - that is, he shall take her to a private place and cohabit with her."

Do you really think this Patriarchal crap - is superior - and from God?????

*

Somebody seems obsessed with the word "rape".

 

[Ingledsva]

I am curious. How is running someone through with a sword rape? I thought it was killing. You also said that God commanded not to marry into other groups. He did such things to prevent Israel from being contaminated with false religion and paganism. Remember, they WERE for a time God's chosen nation, until they continuously broke the covenant with Him, and turned to paganism again, and again, and again. Anyway, how is running someone through with a sword rape?

I think you need to re-read that.

They could drag a captive female home - let her scream for her murdered family for a whopping 30 days - then SC*EW her! That is RAPE - not marriage! The command to not marry these foreign women proves this is RAPE - not marriage!

Deut 21:10 When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives,

Deut 21:13 and shall remove the clothing of her captivity from her, and shall live in your house, and shall morn for her father and her mother a month of days. And afterward shall go into her as master, making her your woman. (slavery, rape)

*

 

[Ingledsva]

Somebody seems obsessed with the word "rape".

LOL! RAPE IS RAPE!

Should I be calling forced sex - tickling?

*

 

[truthofscripture]

I think you need to re-read that.

They could drag a captive female home - let her scream for her murdered family for a whopping 30 days - then SC*EW her! That is RAPE - not marriage! The command to not marry these foreign women proves this is RAPE - not marriage!

Deut 21:10 When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives,

Deut 21:13 and shall remove the clothing of her captivity from her, and shall live in your house, and shall morn for her father and her mother a month of days. And afterward shall go into her as master, making her your woman. (slavery, rape)

*

You don't seem to realize that to begin with, the Law Covenant was a temporary measure to bring Israel to the point where the Messiah came. Secondly, Israel was in such a sad state, what Jehovah told Israel in that Law was FAR BETTER than what was happening previously. And since the covenant was ended, no such things were allowed. Israel, a "stiff necked people", as God called them, was no longer Jehovah's chosen nation. His chosen nation henceforth is "spiritual Israel", comprised of people of all nations and tongues.

 

[truthofscripture]

LOL! RAPE IS RAPE!

Should I be calling forced sex - tickling?

*

Once again, what is with this obsession with rape anyway? You haven't explained that.

 

[Ingledsva]

You are entitled to your opinions and I to mine. The woman captured in war may or may not have been agreeable to the marriage, but at least she was accorded that dignity of marriage. As I mentioned, God permitted polygamy for a time but regulated it to protect women.

Absolute BULL - to allow you to live with your choice of God!

You make excuses - and call RAPE - marriage!

Thirty days after war, and captivity, - a women is not marrying, - she is being raped.

You folks kill me! LOL! Put yourself in her sandals.

YOU have been in a war. YOUR people have lost, and been slaughtered. YOU have watched them slaughter YOUR brothers and sisters, mom and dad, grandparents, all YOUR friends -

then one of the murderers takes YOU captive - lets YOU scream and wail for your dead - for a whopping 30 days -

And YOU SAY - to hell with the murder of my family - wipe the blood off your feet - and SC*EW me - I want to be your wife???????

LOLOLOLOLOLOLO!!!!!!! What a crock of BULL!!!

*

 

[truthofscripture]

Absolute BULL - to allow you to live with your choice of God!

You make excuses - and call RAPE - marriage!

Thirty days after war, and captivity, - a women is not marrying, - she is being raped.

You folks kill me! LOL! Put yourself in her sandals.

You have been in a war. Your people have lost, and been slaughtered. You have watched them slaughter your brothers and sisters, mom and dad, grandparents, all your friends -

then one of the murderers takes you captive - lets you scream and wail for your dead - for a whopping 30 days -

And you say - to hell with the murder of my family - wipe the blood off your feet - and SC*EW me - I want to be your wife???????

LOLOLOLOLOLOLO!!!!!!! What a crock of BULL!!!

*

There isn't a "choice of God", as there is only one God the Almighty. None of the other "Gods" are real. They are statues, animals, idols, etc. One is either on God's side, or one is on the other side according to the scriptures. Luke 11:23 Whoever is not on my side is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. Ephesians 4:4 One body there is, and one spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus
Deut. 4:39 Know, therefore, on this day, and take it to heart that Jehovah is the true God in the heavens above and on the earth beneath. There is no other.

 

[Ingledsva]

Once again, what is with this obsession with rape anyway? You haven't explained that.

Wearing BLINDERS are Ye?

I have provided many Tanakh RAPE verses.

Thus the word RAPE! DAH!

How many times do I have to post the same text before it sinks in?

Deut 21:10 When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives,

Deut 21:13 and shall remove the clothing of her captivity from her, and shall live in your house, and shall morn for her father and her mother a month of days. And afterward shall go into her as master, making her your woman. (slavery, rape)

*

 

[Ingledsva]

There isn't a "choice of God", as there is only one God the Almighty. None of the other "Gods" are real. They are statues, animals, idols, etc. One is either on God's side, or one is on the other side according to the scriptures. Luke 11:23 Whoever is not on my side is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. Ephesians 4:4 One body there is, and one spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus
Deut. 4:39 Know, therefore, on this day, and take it to heart that Jehovah is the true God in the heavens above and on the earth beneath. There is no other.

And what does that crap have to do with your God's laws allowing RAPE, SLAVERY, and MURDER?

*

 

[Ingledsva]

You don't seem to realize that to begin with, the Law Covenant was a temporary measure to bring Israel to the point where the Messiah came. Secondly, Israel was in such a sad state, what Jehovah told Israel in that Law was FAR BETTER than what was happening previously. And since the covenant was ended, no such things were allowed. Israel, a "stiff necked people", as God called them, was no longer Jehovah's chosen nation. His chosen nation henceforth is "spiritual Israel", comprised of people of all nations and tongues.

LOL! BULL! We have actual commentary on this. The Rabbis' discussed it! They wrote down those debates! It did not just stop!

*

 

[Skwim]

I think you are seriously mistaken. And if you accuse me of lying, at least have the courtesy to specify how I lied.

YOU asked a question: When did Jehovah ever "commit mass murder of the innocents?

And I answered: Well, it may not have been murder---the illegal taking of a human life---no laws being in effect, but it was certainly paedocide (the killing of children).

YOU then said: God holds parents responsible for the lives of their children.

And I asked: Is this suppose absolve god of killing them?
​

So where am I mistaken? God did take the life of children when he sent the world wide flood,and when he destroyed Sodom. And exactly what do you perceive as a possible accusation of lying?

The 2 verses you quoted does not mean that God approves rape. The first instance was God's judgment of David for his sin with Bathsheba, and was fulfilled when Absalom committed adultery with David's concubines. God allowed the circumstances to develop that made this possible but he did not induce Absalom to commit this crime. (2 Samuel 16:20-22).

2 Samuel 12:11-12 (CEB)
11 “This is what the Lord says: I am making trouble come against you from inside your own family. Before your very eyes I will take your wives away and give them to your friend, and he will have sex with your wives in broad daylight. 12 You did what you did secretly, but I will do what I am doing before all Israel in the light of day.”

Lord says: I will take your wives away and give them to your friend, and he will have sex with your wives in broad daylight.
​

Think these poor wives were willing sex objects? Hardly, which would make them victims of rape.

Sure looks like approval to me; If you told me you took your gun and gave it to your friend so he could kill his wife why wouldn't I think you approved of homicide? Would you do such a thing if you disapproved of it?

The second is a prophecy. God foresaw the crimes committed against his people by God's enemies. He was certainly not condoning rape.

Sure he is. He foresees the day when he puts into operation an event wherein women will be raped. If he didn't approve of such rape he would see that it never takes place. After all, with god all things are possible and Zechariah 14;1-2 would read:

The day of the Lord
14 A day is coming that belongs to the Lord,
when that which has been plundered from you will be divided among you.
2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem for the battle,
the city will be captured,
the houses will be plundered,
and the women will NOT be raped.
Half of the city will go forth into exile,
but what is left of the people won’t be eliminated from the city.

Sorry, but god does approve of rape no matter how disgusting it may sound to you, or how it sticks in your theological craw.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Is that Frank-in-stein or Fronk-en-steen? Any relation to Frode-er-rick?

What?