Why Evil?

[Skwim]

What?

 

[truthofscripture]

LOL! BULL! We have actual commentary on this. The Rabbis' discussed it! They wrote down those debates! It did not just stop!

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Yes, there are scriptures that say specifically that they will end and be replaced. And there are others that say it was replaced with the New Covenant. And another one that says to Israel, "your house has been abandoned". Here is the one that says there will be a "new covenant": Jeremiah 31:31 “Look! The days are coming,” declares Jehovah, “when I will make with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant. 32 It will not be like the covenant that I made with their forefathers on the day I took hold of their hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, ‘my covenant that they broke, although I was their true master,’ declares Jehovah.”

Believing in what men say over what God said doesn't make sense. The created cannot be greater than the created.
Job 33:12 But you are not right in saying this, so I will answer you: God is far greater than mortal man.

 

[truthofscripture]

You got it!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Thanks.

 

[truthofscripture]

Thanks.

One of my favorites, along with Blazing Saddles and A Fish Called Wanda.

 

[Ingledsva]

Yes, there are scriptures that say specifically that they will end and be replaced. And there are others that say it was replaced with the New Covenant. And another one that says to Israel, "your house has been abandoned". Here is the one that says there will be a "new covenant": Jeremiah 31:31 “Look! The days are coming,” declares Jehovah, “when I will make with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant. 32 It will not be like the covenant that I made with their forefathers on the day I took hold of their hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, ‘my covenant that they broke, although I was their true master,’ declares Jehovah.”

Believing in what men say over what God said doesn't make sense. The created cannot be greater than the created.
Job 33:12 But you are not right in saying this, so I will answer you: God is far greater than mortal man.

What exactly is your point with that? We are talking about the Laws of Moses. The things they wrote about in the Bible.

None of that means these laws were stopped! They continued! And we have written proof - from those Rabbis discussing them.

These laws are still in Tanakh, - they just don't do them now! ISIS does!

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[truthofscripture]

What exactly is your point with that? We are talking about the Laws of Moses. The things they wrote about in the Bible.

None of that means these laws were stopped! They continued! And we have written proof - from those Rabbis discussing them.

These laws are still in Tanakh, - they just don't do them now! ISIS does!

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My point is that the Law Covenant WAS ENDED. You are going to believe Rabbis (teachers) over God?

 

[Ingledsva]

My point is that the Law Covenant WAS ENDED. You are going to believe Rabbis (teachers) over God?

LOL! Dude! You have no idea what the invisible man says, or said.

I suggest you ask the Jews if the Covenant has ended, or has passed from them!

You need to read the verses in context!


Jer 29:1 Now these are the words of the letter that Jeremiah the prophet sent from Jerusalem unto the residue of the elders which were carried away captives, and to the priests, and to the prophets, and to all the people whom Nebuchadnezzar had carried away captive from Jerusalem to Babylon;

Jer 31:4 Again I will build thee, and thou shalt be built, O virgin of Israel: thou shalt again be adorned with thy tabrets, and shalt go forth in the dances of them that make merry.

Jer 31:16 Thus saith the LORD; Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears: for thy work shall be rewarded, saith the LORD; and they shall come again from the land of the enemy.



Jer 31:17 And there is hope in thine end, saith the LORD, that thy children shall come again to their own border.

Jer 31:18 I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the LORD my God.


Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This obviously has to do with Jews, - not some future Christians! And it does NOT in any way say it changes the given laws!

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[truthofscripture]

LOL! Dude! You have no idea what the invisible man says, or said.

I suggest you ask the Jews if the Covenant has ended, or has passed from them!

You need to read the verses in context!


Jer 29:1 Now these are the words of the letter that Jeremiah the prophet sent from Jerusalem unto the residue of the elders which were carried away captives, and to the priests, and to the prophets, and to all the people whom Nebuchadnezzar had carried away captive from Jerusalem to Babylon;

Jer 31:4 Again I will build thee, and thou shalt be built, O virgin of Israel: thou shalt again be adorned with thy tabrets, and shalt go forth in the dances of them that make merry.

Jer 31:16 Thus saith the LORD; Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears: for thy work shall be rewarded, saith the LORD; and they shall come again from the land of the enemy.



Jer 31:17 And there is hope in thine end, saith the LORD, that thy children shall come again to their own border.

Jer 31:18 I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the LORD my God.


Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This obviously has to do with Jews, - not some future Christians! And it does NOT in any way say it changes the given laws!

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Man? Invisible? Yes, we can't see Him, but He's not an invisible man. Yes, I do know what He said, He had it written down for us. Ever her of the inspired word of God? scriptures, Bible? The scriptures do say what they say, and they're ALL true, or they're ALL FALSE. Can't pick and choose. If Jews choose to pick and choose, that's their business. But that's not approved of according to Jehovah Himself. He did mention punishments for doing things like that. And, my name is not DUDE. I am not a teenager. I will thank you for not being jejune.

 

[ether-ore]

Well, you can redefine any word you wish to fit whatever concept you wish; HOWEVER, it's seldom productive. Few are willing to discuss issues wherein you insist they adhere to definitions outside the norm. Of course, to say that evil is not a created thing goes against god's claim in Isaiah that he did just that. And to assume evil isn't created means it never "came into being" but must have existed for ever. Then consider: for whatever reason god's goodness is absent or rejected functions as the reason for evil: the reason is its cause, and it created evil. If it wasn't for this reason evil would not have appeared.

Then there's this silliness from your link:

This is really playing fast and loose with the English: pretending that the lack of something is not a "thing." Of course it's a thing. Just because we may not have a word for this particular instance of lack doesn't mean it isn't a thing. Simply call a "lack or privation of a good thing that God made, "comesquat" and one can more easily see that lack or privation of a good thing that God made is indeed a thing. Just as the lack of clouds is a clear sky, or the lack of happiness is sadness are things.

Absolutely, because good can stand in contrast to a number of other things; badness, woe, trouble, and wrong, to name a few.

Only if evil is defined as a "lack or privation of a good thing that God made, because the good here has been specifically defined. But the question arises: so what? This has nothing to do with the argument made by the author of the article. He still stepped into a bucket of wrong when he said: "The problem with this argument is its second premise, that evil is something. For evil is not a thing; it is a lack or privation of a good thing that God made."

1) God is the creator of everything that exists.
2) Evil exists.
3) Therefore, God is the creator of evil.

Is not only a valid syllogism but a sound one as well. Evil does exist.

​

I challenge the first premise. My theology does not teach that God created everything. There are several things that are co-eternal with God: matter, energy, life, spirit, intelligence (specifically our own) and law (which God Himself abides). Because I believe that my own essential identity, my intelligence always existed and was not created by God, I therefore am a free agent and if I choose to go contrary to God's eternal laws, then I have just created evil. I did it... not God. And yes, I go against what it says in Isaiah because I happen to believe that there is a translation or a contextual error there. You mentioned logic. For me, it goes against logic to suppose that God would create evil. He does indeed allow it during mortality. Mortality is a quarantined condition; a probationary state where mistakes can be made so that we can learn from them. As long as we repent, our mistakes will not count against us. In the eternal scheme of things and in terms of our own progression, it makes no sense that God should have created evil. God is not the creator of evil; we are.

 

[Ingledsva]

Man? Invisible? Yes, we can't see Him, but He's not an invisible man. Yes, I do know what He said, He had it written down for us. Ever her of the inspired word of God? scriptures, Bible? The scriptures do say what they say, and they're ALL true, or they're ALL FALSE. Can't pick and choose. If Jews choose to pick and choose, that's their business. But that's not approved of according to Jehovah Himself. He did mention punishments for doing things like that. And, my name is not DUDE. I am not a teenager. I will thank you for not being jejune.

Uhmmmm! I just showed the verses you claim make a difference in those laws, - and proved you are wrong.

Also - not a thing in those verses say the Laws are void.

You take them out of context, - and then call the Jews wrong.

LOL! Back to the drawing board for you. We'll wait while you try again.

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[Skwim]

I challenge the first premise. My theology does not teach that God created everything.

Fine. Then there's little to discuss here.

You mentioned logic. For me, it goes against logic to suppose that God would create evil.

And in as much as you don't believe god created anything, of course it would go against your logic.

 

[truthofscripture]

Uhmmmm! I just showed the verses you claim make a difference in those laws, - and proved you are wrong.

Also - not a thing in those verses say the Laws are void.

You take them out of context, - and then call the Jews wrong.

LOL! Back to the drawing board for you. We'll wait while you try again.

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Uhmmmm! I just showed the verses you claim make a difference in those laws, - and proved you are wrong.

Also - not a thing in those verses say the Laws are void.

You take them out of context, - and then call the Jews wrong.

LOL! Back to the drawing board for you. We'll wait while you try again.

*

You did not prove a thing. Subsequent scriptures, words of GOD said that there would be a new covenant, and further subsequent scriptures, that the Jews disregard, say their house has been abandoned and that there is a NEW COVENANT are disregarded. Further subsequent scriptures, saying God's new chosen nation is SPIRITUAL ISRAEL are disregarded by the Jewish nation. You have proven nothing except that you are getting too emotional to have a discussion. Please, calm down and take a breath and stop attacking. Making a point doesn't have to be nasty. You reject God's words. Your problem. You accept God's words, not your problem. The choice is yours. There is no "drawing board" and there's no LOL. I am not a teenager. Please don't use such childish terminology. I don't really want to debate with someone who can't do so on an adult level. Please keep that in mind in your posts. I am not here to be insulted or attacked.

I think the problem here is a failure to realize that Israel BROKE the covenant (contract) with Jehovah, so He replaced it via Jesus' New Covenant. The scriptures say what they say. Arguing and being rude cannot change that. Neither can complaining. Only God can change it, and He isn't biting.

 

[Caligula]

Hey, you asked the question, not me.

Would you, please, point to what you consider to be my question and your answer? No need to quote; a summary of my question and your answer would suffice.

Posts summary, from where I stand:

I said that "God creating evil" makes no sense to me;
You said that no matter if that makes or not sense to me, God or the Bible make this assertion and you offered Bible quotes to support your claim;
I said I don't care at all who or what makes such an assertion as long as it seems to be illogical;
You said that I was the one that asked the question, not you.

What in the World are we debating here?

If you take the Bible as god's word then saying "A simple play of words" would be just that.

I'm an atheist. I don't take the Bible as any god's word.

 

[Skwim]

Would you, please, point to what you consider to be my question and your answer? No need to quote; a summary of my question and your answer would suffice.

Posts summary, from where I stand:

I said that "God creating evil" makes no sense to me;
You said that no matter if that makes or not sense to me, God or the Bible make this assertion and you offered Bible quotes to support your claim;
I said I don't care at all who or what makes such an assertion as long as it seems to be illogical;
You said that I was the one that asked the question, not you.

What in the World are we debating here?



I'm an atheist. I don't take the Bible as any god's word.

My mistake. I got you mixed up with rusra02.

 

[ether-ore]

Fine. Then there's little to discuss here.

And in as much as you don't believe god created anything, of course it would go against your logic.

I never said that God didn't create "anything". I said "everything". God organized (created) quite a lot, such as the heavens and the earth. He provided us with the opportunity to gain physical bodies and a plethora of other things as well.

 

[Skwim]

I never said that God didn't create "anything". I said "everything". God organized (created) quite a lot, such as the heavens and the earth. He provided us with the opportunity to gain physical bodies and a plethora of other things as well.

You're right, you didn't say anything, just not everything. My bad.

 

[truthofscripture]

I never said that God didn't create "anything". I said "everything". God organized (created) quite a lot, such as the heavens and the earth. He provided us with the opportunity to gain physical bodies and a plethora of other things as well.

May I ask, what you mean by "the opportunity to gain physical bodies"?

 

[Ingledsva]

You did not prove a thing. Subsequent scriptures, words of GOD said that there would be a new covenant, and further subsequent scriptures, that the Jews disregard, say their house has been abandoned and that there is a NEW COVENANT are disregarded. Further subsequent scriptures, saying God's new chosen nation is SPIRITUAL ISRAEL are disregarded by the Jewish nation. You have proven nothing except that you are getting too emotional to have a discussion. Please, calm down and take a breath and stop attacking. Making a point doesn't have to be nasty. You reject God's words. Your problem. You accept God's words, not your problem. The choice is yours. There is no "drawing board" and there's no LOL. I am not a teenager. Please don't use such childish terminology. I don't really want to debate with someone who can't do so on an adult level. Please keep that in mind in your posts. I am not here to be insulted or attacked.

I think the problem here is a failure to realize that Israel BROKE the covenant (contract) with Jehovah, so He replaced it via Jesus' New Covenant. The scriptures say what they say. Arguing and being rude cannot change that. Neither can complaining. Only God can change it, and He isn't biting.

My turn to say it does not say that. Your add on Christian ideas are just bunk to Jewish Tanakh texts. Tanakh says the Jewish people will always be his people.

You read out of context. It is moaning and wailing - and taking them back as usual - to fulfill the ALWAYS HIS PEOPLE!

I mean good grief - LOL - like they are going to write a text that says God dumped them! LOL!

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[ether-ore]

May I ask, what you mean by "the opportunity to gain physical bodies"?

We didn't have one before coming into mortality and we could not have gained one without the assistance of God. We were God's spirit children before coming here.