Why God created people that are destined for Hell...

[Beaudreaux]

The living equivalent to resigning and walking away would be to commit suicide, i.e., giving up. Striving to be a warrior, I believe that, unless you're playing against an unfair computer(i.e., Chessmaster ), giving up is dishonorable and cowardly, and therefore not an option.

I think you're kidding a little bit here, but just in case you are not I should point out that giving up IS an option for you even though you state you would never do it. Would is different from Could.

Maybe a better way to phrase my chess example, this time assuming the player is not considering giving up or resigning,

Again, even if they are not considering it, it COULD happen.

Still using chess as an example, a good chess player can see every single possible move that an opponent can make, in theory five moves ahead, and plan his strategy accordingly. A God who is bound by time and only exists with us in the present, knows every single possible decision a person can make, far into infinity, even if the number of possible choices are infinite.

Since you are obviously a chess player (my ICC ID is IronChefPA if you ever want to play) here is a better analogy. Right now, God knows every move you will ever make in every chess game you will ever play. When it comes time to play those games, you will play them as God knows you will down to the very last move. You CANNOT make any move that God has not foreknown. Your Chess notation book has already been written and you CANNOT play a game that is not in it move for move.

 

[Beaudreaux]

So, you haven't sinned lately?

Oh, I have. BOY have I. Planning on it tonight, too. In about an hour. :disco:

 

[Beaudreaux]

When you see Him, maybe you'll ask Him about that.

Well, I don't believe I'll see Him because as an atheist, and I don't believe there is a Him to see. I look at the gaping holes, like this one, in most religions and conclude that such a God does not make sense. How can there be an all-loving God who would create people in such a way that he knows they will suffer for eternity? Why would he allow them to suffer for eternity? This is just one of the many questions that keeps me from asserting belief in God.

 

[Riverwolf]

Even if the god in question knows all possible outcomes and potential choices given in those circumstances, we (humans) still only get one choice to make. We don't get other chances to "re-choose" things. And if a god knows what that one choice will be, it is NOT free will because we won't be able to choose anything other than that choice, even if there are other potential choices and the god knows what all of those choices are. And, if you're telling me that this god doesn't think we have free will, then why (assuming abrahamic god here, but insert your god of choice) are we still held accountable for sin? And I like your use of the words: "illusion of free will'" because thats exactly what you make it sound like.

I don't know. I don't worship the Abrahamic God.

And I mean to make it sound like "illusion of free will" because I believe everything that we perceive to be illusion.

 

[Riverwolf]

I think you're kidding a little bit here, but just in case you are not I should point out that giving up IS an option for you even though you state you would never do it. Would is different from Could.

No I'm not kidding. Unless I'm facing a computer player, I don't believe in giving up. Even then, I try to figure out why I'm losing.

If someone else leaves giving up as an option, that's their decision. It's not an option in my book.

Since you are obviously a chess player (my ICC ID is IronChefPA if you ever want to play) here is a better analogy. Right now, God knows every move you will ever make in every chess game you will ever play. When it comes time to play those games, you will play them as God knows you will down to the very last move. You CANNOT make any move that God has not foreknown. Your Chess notation book has already been written and you CANNOT play a game that is not in it move for move.

Isn't that how a game of chess is supposed to be played?

(btw, I do play chess on occasion, but not all the time. to tell you the truth, I suck at it. lol but I grew up a gamer, so I like to look at things as a game if applicable)

 

[Riverwolf]

By the way, I'd like to point something out, based on what science_is_my_god reminded me: the topic at hand.

If the Abrahamic God who sends people to hell does control what we do, then he is accountable. If he knows that we will sin and continue to sin, at first it may or may not look like he's accountable for it, but the kicker in this argument... I think a brief bit in LOTR ROTK the movie explains how I feel about such a situation:

"GUARD: It is as the lord Denethor predicted! Long has he foreseen this doom!
GANDALF: Foreseen and done nothing!"

If God knows about our future sinning and does nothing about it, then he is accountable for it. I know in the mythology he sent his Son to die so that our sins could be wiped clean, but the problem is that it's been 2000 years. It is under question whether Jesus as the Christ ever even existed.

Now it seems that religious people have all kinds of experiences to promote their faith, but the problem is that no one outside of the faith has had these experiences, so God is not making himself known to those who really ought to need his guidance. Jesus himself said that it's the sick who need the doctor, not the ones who are well. So why does God not make himself somewhat known to those who are in need of his guidance so that they can believe in his Son?

Or, rather, does he make himself known in a way that unbelievers could understand? Therefore even someone who does not officially belong to any of the Abrahamic faiths knows God, without knowing he knows God.


Now... all of these arguments are dependent on God sending people to hell or admitting them to heaven.

But I don't think that's how it works at all, because it contradicts Jesus's message. I think the way it works is that we go to hell on our own, or heaven on our own. No God sending us anywhere.

Therefore we are fully accountable. God is just a bystander, maybe throwing us a hand now and then, but nonparticipant for the most part.



EDIT: My arguments before this post have been my own beliefs, which take God out of the picture altogether.

 

[HoldemDB9]

I believe that only sinners go to hell.

So who is a sinner and who is not? I thought basically everyone on the planet was a sinner, so do you believe that they are all going to Hell? Do you believe that you are going to Hell? Are you a sinner?

I would also appreciate it if you actually answered my questions.

 

[mohammed_beiruti]

Then what is their role then? If they are being created, in the knowledge that they will go to hell anyways, then why are they being created?

Then what is their role then?
then why are they being created?

thier role is to worship(obey) Allah.

Qura'an ch.51

[56] I have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve Me.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Oh, I have. BOY have I. Planning on it tonight, too. In about an hour. :disco:

You're going to hell then.

 

[Falvlun]

I posted this in another thread, yet I would like to post it here because I think my logic would be given analysis.

God does not create people to go to Hell, God created people with free will and the choice to form a relationship with Him if they do choose to do so. It is analogous to the way in which one would tape a football game and watch it over again. You know what the players are going to do yet you do not control their actions. God is omniscient. But just because he knows what you are going to do does not mean he made you do it.

Disregarding whether free-will exists or not, the problem with the whole thing is that it's not fair. Everyone's not born on a level playing field to become a Christian. Do you really think Abdul, born in Afghanistan, has the same chance at becoming a Christian as Tommy, born in Indiana? The majority of it all comes down to luck of the draw, whether you are born into an environment conducive to you becoming a Christian or not

 

[Sententia]

How can there be an all-loving God who would create people in such a way that he knows they will suffer for eternity?

Just to see the look on the faces of those who find out at the last second. He snaps a picture, posts it his blog and flicker and then he moves on.

 

[roli]

So who is a sinner and who is not? I thought basically everyone on the planet was a sinner, so do you believe that they are all going to Hell? Do you believe that you are going to Hell? Are you a sinner?

I would also appreciate it if you actually answered my questions.

According to scripture, not Roli's opinion
Hell was prepared not for man,but satan and his angels, man will go to that place because they did not choose to receive the means in which God chose to reconcile man to himself.
Hell will be an eternal absence from God's presence with which there will be pain,suffering,lonliness,regret,fear,worrry,doubt hopelesness and a point of no return.
But this is already present in this world, that is in a world that has refused to believe and obey.

God originally created man with his nature,spirit and characteristics within the man. He was given eternal life and life in the presence and company of God
He was given to enjoy every blessing of being one with God and partaking in the fellowship and pleasures of what God had provided for him, including and most importantly,"everlasting life" ,but man would only remain in that position in conformity to the law of God.

But, like everything, it was conditional on one premise, "obedience", which therein lies the choice or free will of the recipient, but as the story goes, man made the wrong choice, which ultimately led to the spirit of God departing sinful disobedient man, because His Holy presence could no longer exists in an unholy vessel and there led to the downfall of all man, everywhere.
God wants people to," want to love and follow him" not be coerced into loving him.
Man can only do that when they are forgiven, restored ,reconciled, redeemed to God and God has been trying to restore man since that dreadful day he made the wrong choice.

Man was cast out of the presence of a Holy God and eternal life, not because God choose to cast him out,but the consequences of violation of God's word was death, meaning physical and spiritual separation from God,the 2 can no longer
coexist, just as light and darkness, or righteousness and unrighteousness....
It's because of a law called the "law of sin and death"the sould that sins dies.

It works like any other law, in that within the law are 2 positions,the consequences of violation of set laws, or the benefts of conforming to set laws.

Man was holy, righteous, just and pure, "in His presence", but in their disobedience they became,unholy,unrighteous,wicked,condemned and ultimately separated from God's Holy nature, because they cant coexist.

Holiness does not exist in unholiness, as light can't exist in darkness.
Unholiness is an absence of Holiness, darkness is an absence of light, lies are the absence of truth and death the absence of life.
Man's unholiness is his present sinful state and is not something God cursed him with,but something that exists in it's own right, apart from the Holiness of God.

But God made a way and has always made a way for all mankind to return to that place of communion and fellowship with him and ultimately the goal was to keep them from perishing.

But the carnal mind is enmity against God and it can't do the things it wants,so it does the things it's carnal flesh desires, which ultimately bring pleasure and comfort,but will also bring eternal death or "hell"

.....thus it will be man's choice...

 

[HoldemDB9]

According to scripture, not Roli's opinion
Hell was prepared not for man,but satan and his angels, man will go to that place because they did not choose to receive the means in which God chose to reconcile man to himself.
Hell will be an eternal absence from God's presence with which there will be pain,suffering,lonliness,regret,fear,worrry,doubt hopelesness and a point of no return.
But this is already present in this world, that is in a world that has refused to believe and obey.

God originally created man with his nature,spirit and characteristics within the man. He was given eternal life and life in the presence and company of God
He was given to enjoy every blessing of being one with God and partaking in the fellowship and pleasures of what God had provided for him, including and most importantly,"everlasting life" ,but man would only remain in that position in conformity to the law of God.

But, like everything, it was conditional on one premise, "obedience", which therein lies the choice or free will of the recipient, but as the story goes, man made the wrong choice, which ultimately led to the spirit of God departing sinful disobedient man, because His Holy presence could no longer exists in an unholy vessel and there led to the downfall of all man, everywhere.
God wants people to," want to love and follow him" not be coerced into loving him.
Man can only do that when they are forgiven, restored ,reconciled, redeemed to God and God has been trying to restore man since that dreadful day he made the wrong choice.

Man was cast out of the presence of a Holy God and eternal life, not because God choose to cast him out,but the consequences of violation of God's word was death, meaning physical and spiritual separation from God,the 2 can no longer
coexist, just as light and darkness, or righteousness and unrighteousness....
It's because of a law called the "law of sin and death"the sould that sins dies.

It works like any other law, in that within the law are 2 positions,the consequences of violation of set laws, or the benefts of conforming to set laws.

Man was holy, righteous, just and pure, "in His presence", but in their disobedience they became,unholy,unrighteous,wicked,condemned and ultimately separated from God's Holy nature, because they cant coexist.

Holiness does not exist in unholiness, as light can't exist in darkness.
Unholiness is an absence of Holiness, darkness is an absence of light, lies are the absence of truth and death the absence of life.
Man's unholiness is his present sinful state and is not something God cursed him with,but something that exists in it's own right, apart from the Holiness of God.

But God made a way and has always made a way for all mankind to return to that place of communion and fellowship with him and ultimately the goal was to keep them from perishing.

But the carnal mind is enmity against God and it can't do the things it wants,so it does the things it's carnal flesh desires, which ultimately bring pleasure and comfort,but will also bring eternal death or "hell"

.....thus it will be man's choice...

Ok I understand, but my problem with Christianity is how one gets saved. ἀλήθεια said that all sinners go to Hell. We are all sinners, so do we all go to Hell?

God cannot allow people who believe in the true religion to be saved like most Christians will say, because whether or not our religion is true is nothing but sheer chance. God could save us for being good people or on how hard we tried to find truth. But he cannot just save those who chose to have faith in Christianity, just because Christianity happened to be true.

Assuming Christianity is true, a Christian has done NOTHING more reward worthy or "right" than a Muslim has done, so how can they be rewarded? What about a person who tried harder to find truth, but did not become a Christian? And if you can find just ONE thing that a Christian has done that is worthy of a reward (regarding beleifs) then you are saying that it is just a coincidence that almost everyone born in Saudi Arabia are not doing that "thing".

This is my biggest problem with Christianity and whenever I bring it up, I get no answers. I know not all Christians don't think like this, but the vast majority of them do. I wonder what God will think of how they are portraying him to be.

 

[roli]

Ok I understand, but my problem with Christianity is how one gets saved. ἀλήθεια said that all sinners go to Hell. We are all sinners, so do we all go to Hell?

God's method of saving men has always been a problem with mankind
First off, God must call you . Jesus died for all mankind,but we don't choose him, initially,
Jhn 15:16Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Jhn 6:65And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Jhn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Eph 2:8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:Not of works, lest any man should boast.

How does God draw us to himself, via the "Holy Spirit"

God cannot allow people who believe in the true religion to be saved like most Christians will say, because whether or not our religion is true is nothing but sheer chance.

What are you trying to say here ????

God could save us for being good people or on how hard we tried to find truth. But he cannot just save those who chose to have faith in Christianity, just because Christianity happened to be true.

If God saved us on our own merrit, Jesus came in vain!!!
It's not faith in christianity that saves anyone.
He chooses those who have faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ alone, for there is no other name under heaven in which we must be saved

Assuming Christianity is true, a Christian has done NOTHING more reward worthy or "right" than a Muslim has done, so how can they be rewarded?

The question of "whosoever will" is an open ended question to all people, upon conditions of course.
The "whosoever" that believes,which means trust, have confidence in and rely on, the death, burial and resurrection of Christ is the one who receives the Holy Spirit as a witness and gaurantee of what is to come.
He is the assurance ,confirmation that we are saved and that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior and the Holy Spirit gives us the power and ability to overcome sin and live life pleasing to God.
As a child of God and heir we have access to the father's throne and obtain forgiveness when we sin.
We as Christians may still sin as long as we are in this body of flesh,but the spirit of God within us convicts us and leads us to repentance, our nature's have changed because Christ lives in us ,so what we once did in the past regarding sinful pleasures,is now difficult to do with a clear conscience because the Holy Spirit resides within,it's trusting in the shed blood of the cross of Christ that gives us access to the father and forgiveness

What about a person who tried harder to find truth, but did not become a Christian?

God ways the heart,but also says no man can come to the father except through Jesus.
Paul also says men will be without excuse on judgement day
Rom 1:19 declares that God has manifest himself to everyone of us through creation and he also reinterates it again and says, he showed himself to us.
Rom 2;15 Claims the law of God is already imbeded upon our hearts via our "conscience" which bares witness of this.

And if you can find just ONE thing that a Christian has done that is worthy of a reward (regarding beleifs) then you are saying that it is just a coincidence that almost everyone born in Saudi Arabia are not doing that "thing".

Man has sinned and Christ was that payment for that sin.
No other substitute was found in this world to satisfy the demands of the law.
Man broke the law of God, the law required payment,justice,Jesus was that perfect payment , the sinless sacrifice if you believe and receive him,he confirms the truth via his Holy Spirit

This is my biggest problem with Christianity and whenever I bring it up, I get no answers. I know not all Christians don't think like this, but the vast majority of them do. I wonder what God will think of how they are portraying him to be

I don't know if your really looking for answers or if your venting,either way I layed it out a little for you to digest.

 

[HoldemDB9]

God's method of saving men has always been a problem with mankind
First off, God must call you . Jesus died for all mankind,but we don't choose him, initially,
Jhn 15:16Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Jhn 6:65And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Jhn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Eph 2:8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:Not of works, lest any man should boast.

How does God draw us to himself, via the "Holy Spirit"

So we don't choose Jesus? Jesus chooses us? Ive heard of this before but most Christians don't believe this. So who does Jesus choose? How is it fair that he chooses some over others? What have Christians done - that deserves to be rewarded with eternal life - that all non-Christians have not done?

What are you trying to say here ????

I'm saying exactly what I said. Logic, rationality and evidence will not lead you to the true religion. You have to have faith. Since your beliefs are based on faith, whether or not they are actually true is just sheer chance. Islam and Christianity are 100% equal. You can not say one has a higher chance of being true than the other.

So God cannot punish and reward based on whether or not our beliefs are true, but most Christians say this is exactly what God is doing.

If God saved us on our own merrit, Jesus came in vain!!!
It's not faith in christianity that saves anyone.
He chooses those who have faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ alone, for there is no other name under heaven in which we must be saved

So, like most Christians, you are telling me that God saves people who's religious beliefs are true. Ive already explained how being right about religious beliefs is nothing but sheer chance, because those beliefs are based on faith. So you are saying that God punishes and rewards based on sheer luck. Now those who God does choose, what have they done that is worthy of any sort of reward. You cannot just say that those were the people who were right. You have to tell me what Christians have done that is more worthy of a reward than what Muslims have done.

The question of "whosoever will" is an open ended question to all people, upon conditions of course.
The "whosoever" that believes,which means trust, have confidence in and rely on, the death, burial and resurrection of Christ is the one who receives the Holy Spirit as a witness and gaurantee of what is to come.
He is the assurance ,confirmation that we are saved and that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior and the Holy Spirit gives us the power and ability to overcome sin and live life pleasing to God.
As a child of God and heir we have access to the father's throne and obtain forgiveness when we sin.
We as Christians may still sin as long as we are in this body of flesh,but the spirit of God within us convicts us and leads us to repentance, our nature's have changed because Christ lives in us ,so what we once did in the past regarding sinful pleasures,is now difficult to do with a clear conscience because the Holy Spirit resides within,it's trusting in the shed blood of the cross of Christ that gives us access to the father and forgiveness

See my above reply. You have said again that God chooses those who have chose to have faith in the religion which just happened to be true. They have done nothing better than a Muslim or a Hindu, its just that they happened to be right - its just that they happened to get lucky.

Please tell me why God would reward those who choose to have faith in Christianity over those who choose to have faith in another religion?

God ways the heart,but also says no man can come to the father except through Jesus.
Paul also says men will be without excuse on judgement day
Rom 1:19 declares that God has manifest himself to everyone of us through creation and he also reinterates it again and says, he showed himself to us.
Rom 2;15 Claims the law of God is already imbeded upon our hearts via our "conscience" which bares witness of this.

And it is absolutely evil for God to only reward those who are Christian. Read my above replies and you will see why this is evil. Unless of course, you can just tell me ONE thing that a Christian has done, that will cause God to favour them over a Muslim. Just ONE thing.

Also, you did not really answer my question. Please tell me how a loving, fair God can favour a Christian over a non-Christian who tried harder. Please answer this.

Man has sinned and Christ was that payment for that sin.
No other substitute was found in this world to satisfy the demands of the law.
Man broke the law of God, the law required payment,justice,Jesus was that perfect payment , the sinless sacrifice if you believe and receive him,he confirms the truth via his Holy Spirit

You have completely dodged my question. You are just explaining to me how one gets saved, I already know this. The thing is, they way you are saying people get saved is completely vile and I know many Christians will agree with me. You cant just say that those who choose Christianity get rewarded, but those who choose Islam get punished, that is not fair - the Christan has to have done something better. And being right is not doing something better, because like Ive said, being right about religious beliefs is NOTHING but sheer chance.

So like I originally asked, Please just give me one thing that a Christian has done that is worthy of a reward? If you cannot find anything, then I don't see how your religion makes any sense at all.

I don't know if your really looking for answers or if your venting,either way I layed it out a little for you to digest.

Oh I'm looking for answers, I'm desperately looking for answers. I guess I am venting a little, but that's because every time I bring this up the Christians never reply in the thread again. You did lay it out for me, but unfortunately like most Christians, you are saying that God rewards and punishes based on sheer luck.

Christians have answered me on this. But the only way out is to say that all Christians are trying harder or more truer to find truth, which is absolutely hilarious. And like I said, even if yo can give me one thing that a Christian is doing better than a non-Christian, you will have to come up with an explanation as to why everyone in Saudi Arabia is not doing it. Coincidence?

 

[roli]

So we don't choose Jesus? Jesus chooses us? Ive heard of this before but most Christians don't believe this.

That's the problem right there ,many people professing christian status are'nt Christians at all,but that will come out on that day of the Lord,
Mat 7:22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So who does Jesus choose? How is it fair that he chooses some over others? What have Christians done - that deserves to be rewarded with eternal life - that all non-Christians have not done?

I have said this several times, he chooses those that choose his son.
"no man comes to God except through Jesus Christ, not Joe Smith, The pope, Muhumad, Budda, Confusious, Hinduism,
Yes,God is not a respector of people and that is why he has made the invitation open ended to all people, from all religions all ,races etc.

I'm saying exactly what I said. Logic, rationality and evidence will not lead you to the true religion. You have to have faith. Since your beliefs are based on faith, whether or not they are actually true is just sheer chance.

Hbr 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Islam and Christianity are 100% equal. You can not say one has a higher chance of being true than the other.

Equal....I think not my friend...there may be some truths that are synonomous with Christianity, but Jesus claims to be .."the Truth" "The Way ,The Life"

So God cannot punish and reward based on whether or not our beliefs are true, but most Christians say this is exactly what God is doing.

...no he will judge based on if you have been justified, redeemed by trusting in the sacrifice of His Son, he is your means to stand righteous before God.



....I'll be back after work

So, like most Christians, you are telling me that God saves people who's religious beliefs are true. Ive already explained how being right about religious beliefs is nothing but sheer chance, because those beliefs are based on faith. So you are saying that God punishes and rewards based on sheer luck. Now those who God does choose, what have they done that is worthy of any sort of reward. You cannot just say that those were the people who were right. You have to tell me what Christians have done that is more worthy of a reward than what Muslims have done.



See my above reply. You have said again that God chooses those who have chose to have faith in the religion which just happened to be true. They have done nothing better than a Muslim or a Hindu, its just that they happened to be right - its just that they happened to get lucky.

Please tell me why God would reward those who choose to have faith in Christianity over those who choose to have faith in another religion?



And it is absolutely evil for God to only reward those who are Christian. Read my above replies and you will see why this is evil. Unless of course, you can just tell me ONE thing that a Christian has done, that will cause God to favour them over a Muslim. Just ONE thing.

Also, you did not really answer my question. Please tell me how a loving, fair God can favour a Christian over a non-Christian who tried harder. Please answer this.





You have completely dodged my question. You are just explaining to me how one gets saved, I already know this. The thing is, they way you are saying people get saved is completely vile and I know many Christians will agree with me. You cant just say that those who choose Christianity get rewarded, but those who choose Islam get punished, that is not fair - the Christan has to have done something better. And being right is not doing something better, because like Ive said, being right about religious beliefs is NOTHING but sheer chance.

So like I originally asked, Please just give me one thing that a Christian has done that is worthy of a reward? If you cannot find anything, then I don't see how your religion makes any sense at all.



Oh I'm looking for answers, I'm desperately looking for answers. I guess I am venting a little, but that's because every time I bring this up the Christians never reply in the thread again. You did lay it out for me, but unfortunately like most Christians, you are saying that God rewards and punishes based on sheer luck.

Christians have answered me on this. But the only way out is to say that all Christians are trying harder or more truer to find truth, which is absolutely hilarious. And like I said, even if yo can give me one thing that a Christian is doing better than a non-Christian, you will have to come up with an explanation as to why everyone in Saudi Arabia is not doing it. Coincidence

 

[HoldemDB9]

I have said this several times, he chooses those that choose his son.
"no man comes to God except through Jesus Christ, not Joe Smith, The pope, Muhumad, Budda, Confusious, Hinduism,
Yes,God is not a respector of people and that is why he has made the invitation open ended to all people, from all religions all ,races etc.

You have not told me several times. In fact, you have not told me once. What has a Christian done that is better than what a follower of another religion has done? You cannot just say that those who follow Jesus get rewarded and those who don't get punished, because that is completely evil unless the ones who got it right did something better than the ones who got it wrong. You are just telling me how one gets saved, I already know this. I already know that to be saved you have to believe in Jesus, but this is absolutely disgusting. Its disgusting because there is nothing better about believing in Christianity over believing in Hinduism. The Christians just think that if they happen to be right, they will get a reward for being right. Yeah well good luck getting into heaven just because your beleifs happened to be true.

If you get someone who is just as faithful as a Christian, but is a Muslim, please tell me how on earth God can reward the Christian just for being right.

Hbr 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Again this talks about a belief in God, not in Christianity or Jesus. Many Christians believe that followers of all religions will go to heaven.

Equal....I think not my friend...there may be some truths that are synonomous with Christianity, but Jesus claims to be .."the Truth" "The Way ,The Life"

I don't give a dam what Jesus claims, that is absolutely pointless. Islam and Christianity are equal. If you disagree then please tell me - like I've asked plenty of times - what Christians are doing that Muslims are not.

...no he will judge based on if you have been justified, redeemed by trusting in the sacrifice of His Son, he is your means to stand righteous before God.

In other words: He will judge you based on whether or not your beleifs are true, just as I said you were saying. And since religious beleifs are based on faith, whether or not they are right is pure luck. So again, you have said that God rewards and punishes based on sheer luck.

God can only reward/punish us on our attempt to find truth, not on whether or not we actually found it.

 

[challupa]

Roli, why are you so determined to make God something so small, vain, vindictive and petty? That's the definition of a human maybe, but not a God! Maybe it's time to redefine what God is and expand on knowledge that is thousands of years old. Maybe it's time to acknowledge that we don't really know all of what God is that maybe all religions haven't got it entirely right and all of them have it paritally right. We need to allow for new concepts of God so we can all live in harmony and quit fighting over the things that old concepts say are true. Jesus is equivalent to Buddha and Mohammed and on an on... So each one of the founders of the many religions are the truth and the way as they knew it. But none of them are the total truth. That is my opinion and if we would just admit that there are many things we don't know about God, maybe we could quit fighting over who is right and get down to the business of healing humanity by bringing harmony to the world.

 

[idea]

I posted this in another thread, yet I would like to post it here because I think my logic would be given analysis.

God does not create people to go to Hell, God created people with free will and the choice to form a relationship with Him if they do choose to do so. It is analogous to the way in which one would tape a football game and watch it over again. You know what the players are going to do yet you do not control their actions. God is omniscient. But just because he knows what you are going to do does not mean he made you do it.

I have posted this before, I will post again..

I don't think God created any of it.

Who created it? No one did, there was never a time of nothingness... Laws of thermo, conservation of mass / energy - you don't get something from nothing. We could not have "eternal life" if we were not "eternal" now could we? "eternal" means no beginning and no end...
Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
aiōnios
1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be

Hebrew Word Studies
The English word "create" is an abstract word and a foriegn concept to the Hebrews. .

ie - the word "create" should not be in the Bible. All the "creates" should be form, mold, organize, transform...


And He will not go against anyone's agency in the transforming process...


in a beginning "God himself, finding he was in the midst of spirits and glory, because he was more intelligent, saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have a privilege to advance like himself"
LDS.org - Ensign Article - The King Follett Sermon

IOW - God is cleaning up a mess He did not make...

 

[Riverwolf]

Roli, why are you so determined to make God something so small, vain, vindictive and petty? That's the definition of a human maybe, but not a God! Maybe it's time to redefine what God is and expand on knowledge that is thousands of years old. Maybe it's time to acknowledge that we don't really know all of what God is that maybe all religions haven't got it entirely right and all of them have it paritally right. We need to allow for new concepts of God so we can all live in harmony and quit fighting over the things that old concepts say are true. Jesus is equivalent to Buddha and Mohammed and on an on... So each one of the founders of the many religions are the truth and the way as they knew it. But none of them are the total truth. That is my opinion and if we would just admit that there are many things we don't know about God, maybe we could quit fighting over who is right and get down to the business of healing humanity by bringing harmony to the world.

Exactly.

To me, God = Tao = Do = Dharma... WAY. Heck, Christ himself says he is the "WAY".

MoonWater last night came up with a theory that on Jesus's travels (there are legends that say he traveled all over the place) he stopped by India and China and heard of Buddha and his teachings. He then adopted Buddhist philosophy with his native Judaic religion and began to teach. It is a fact that Jesus's philosophy is nearly identical with that of Buddha.

At core, all religions are compatable. It's the tiny mythological details that causes the dissention, or at least turning a personal religion into a political tool, like what happened to Christianity.