Why God created people that are destined for Hell...

[Riverwolf]

Simply hearing about Jesus doesn't make a person have faith!

That's beside the point.

Paul was completely wrong when he said that "the Law of God was written in all men's hearts, so they are without excuse".

 

[Riverwolf]

What I find interesting is that people who do not believe in God, worry about where he is going to send them.

I've noticed that, too.

 

[McBell]

Christians aren't swayed by men's opinions.

You got to be kidding me..
Do you honestly believe that?

The ONLY way you can support this line of nonsense is to play the "No True Scotsman" card.

 

[YmirGF]

I posted this in another thread, yet I would like to post it here because I think my logic would be given analysis.

Are you willing to accept the ramifications of that analysis though? Now there's a question.

God does not create people to go to Hell, God created people with free will and the choice to form a relationship with Him if they do choose to do so.

So far, so good.

It is analogous to the way in which one would tape a football game and watch it over again. You know what the players are going to do yet you do not control their actions.

I understand the viewpoint you are taking, but feel that the analogy falls flat due to the unpredictable nature of probabilities. For a god to percieve all potential probabilities of a single being would, perhaps, be a task worthy of a god. However, to perceive all potential probabilities of ALL beings who have ever existed, exist now and will ever exist is a tad extreme, imho. I would suggest that such a scenario is even outside of the capabilities of a so-called "god".

God is omniscient. But just because he knows what you are going to do does not mean he made you do it.

I also question the idea that god is, in fact, omniscient as that would render "creation" down to a relatively pointless excercise. What is the point of creating all things just to watch them like a video, such as you have suggested? To me, there is no point worthy of consideration.

As far as Hell goes, I do not see how it can be part of a reality created by a loving god. I don't see how the two can co-exist.

 

[challupa]

So What!!! That's all you can say is So What? We are talking about life and death issues here, heaven or hell and you say So What. So what if those who weren't fortunate enough to hear about Jesus go to hell? [/quote]


Only sinners go to hell. Not one person goes to hell who doesn't deserve it.




You obviously don't love the Christian's God so you devote your time to trying to prove that He isn't merciful. But you can't prove anything about God. Christians aren't swayed by men's opinions. The whole world is filled with wickedness.

You're making quite a few assumptions here. I don't see a world filled with wickedness. Rather I see a world filled with people doing the best they know how given the circumstances of their experiences. You see that's the thing, I do think God is merciful. We just have different ideas of what merciful is I guess (you and I that is, not God and I). I also don't agree with you that people are sinners so in my books, no one deserves hell.

 

[challupa]

The why are you telling us the following:

"An all loving all merciful, all knowing god would never create only one way to come to know him. He isn't that petty or small!"

Because that is what I think. And if you really looked hard you would see the contradiction in what you believe. How could an all loving, all merciful, all knowing god ever create only one way to know him? Why would he be that petty or small if he is all those things? There, now it's not a statement, its a question.

 

[challupa]

Maybe your right, we don't fully understand God or his ways, but what I have personally found out about God, in and through Christ and hsi word has given me ample assurance in what he has revealed to me about himself.

I understand the world wants diversity across the table regarding religions, particularly Christianity and we certainly have that in our world today.
But what your introducing here is the "equality" of all religions,much like "universalism" virtually synonymous with a tossed salad.
Which by the way is a very noble,neutral, politically correct, and typically liberal position to take, but God is very clear in not sharing his glory with another or being brought down to man's level where they can recreate him to fit in their box.
That would be called"idolatry" I presume.

You've made an interesting point here, some of which I agree. I an curious though, are you saying there are other gods and that your God does not like to share his glory?

 

[roli]

Because that is what I think. And if you really looked hard you would see the contradiction in what you believe. How could an all loving, all merciful, all knowing god ever create only one way to know him? Why would he be that petty or small if he is all those things? There, now it's not a statement, its a question.

Why is it you think he's petty and small???

Maybe you could rephrase that question, God uses many means to bring people to the truth of who he is, but that truth is only found in Christ.
The Holy Spirit is the one who leads men to Christ.
But God knows that men would not accept his way, but introduce their own alternate methods that may tend to justify and gratify their carnal practices.
Why....Jhn 7:7The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

People need to understand that without the shedding of blood there is no forgivenesss of sins.Blood was the means in which God would redeem men,but not just any man's blood,it had to be pure and holy.
Jesus Christ was that perfect,sinless sacrifice that would atone the sins of men when it was spilled, but, through his death he also defeated death and brought life and immortality by his resurrection to those who receive him.
.......but
Jhn 3:19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

 

[roli]

You've made an interesting point here, some of which I agree. I an curious though, are you saying there are other gods and that your God does not like to share his glory?

Absolutely ,there are other gods in this world, God speaks of graven images,sun gods,greek gods, as a matter of fact Paul speaks of the things that men struggle with and it's not flesh and blood but spiritual entities in Eph6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].

 

[ἀλήθεια]

That's beside the point.

Paul was completely wrong when he said that "the Law of God was written in all men's hearts, so they are without excuse".

How could Paul be wrong about that if he never said that?

 

[challupa]

Why is it you think he's petty and small???

Maybe you could rephrase that question, God uses many means to bring people to the truth of who he is, but that truth is only found in Christ.
The Holy Spirit is the one who leads men to Christ.
But God knows that men would not accept his way, but introduce their own alternate methods that may tend to justify and gratify their carnal practices.
Why....Jhn 7:7The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

People need to understand that without the shedding of blood there is no forgivenesss of sins.Blood was the means in which God would redeem men,but not just any man's blood,it had to be pure and holy.
Jesus Christ was that perfect,sinless sacrifice that would atone the sins of men when it was spilled, but, through his death he also defeated death and brought life and immortality by his resurrection to those who receive him.
.......but
Jhn 3:19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

I guess I see god as all inclusive and not caring how you come to know him as much as your desire to know him. I also wonder why you feel other ways of worshiping god are because they want to have their carnal pleasures. There are many religions that are quite rigid about what is right in the world like Christianity. Islam for example is not about carnal pleasures so they cannot be said to refuse to come to Christianity because of wanting to pursue carnal pleasures. I don't agree about bloodletting being the way to salvation and purification. However I suppose that is just me. It seems rather barbaric to me I guess. I guess you think I am against the Christian God, and I guess I am more against the way he is protrayed and interpreted. I personally cannot bring myself to believe in what I see as negative messages about God in religions.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

You got to be kidding me..
Do you honestly believe that?

Yes, I believe that.

 

[challupa]

Absolutely ,there are other gods in this world, God speaks of graven images,sun gods,greek gods, as a matter of fact Paul speaks of the things that men struggle with and it's not flesh and blood but spiritual entities in Eph6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].

So you believe these gods are real gods and they complete with the Christian god for souls? Or are they just make believe gods that people only think are real with the only real God being the Christian God?

 

[ἀλήθεια]

I guess I see god as all inclusive and not caring how you come to know him as much as your desire to know him.

There are many people who hold to that view.

I personally cannot bring myself to believe in what I see as negative messages about God in religions.

All people see things differently. Does that make all things true?

 

[ἀλήθεια]

Because that is what I think. And if you really looked hard you would see the contradiction in what you believe. How could an all loving, all merciful, all knowing god ever create only one way to know him? Why would he be that petty or small if he is all those things? There, now it's not a statement, its a question.

God's ways are not man's ways. You don't believe peope sin, so there is no reason for God to punish anyone.

Do you believe that God can get angry and also be all-loving? What is your definition of all-loving?

 

[challupa]

There are many people who hold to that view.
Yes


All people see things differently. Does that make all things true?

I do believe it doesn't matter how we worship god or even share the same definition of what god is. So I guess in a sense I believe that each way has "some" truth to it. I think what matters most is not so much the truth but the effort or desire to do what you think is right and not harm anyone else in your efforts.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

So I guess in a sense I believe that each way has "some" truth to it.

Okay, I'll grant that's possible, but I can't verify it.

I think what matters most is not so much the truth but the effort or desire to do what you think is right and not harm anyone else in your efforts.

So since you don't know who has tried hardest, why are you so annoyed that some of us are Christians? You don't know how hard we've tried.

 

[challupa]

God's ways are not man's ways. You don't believe peope sin, so there is no reason for God to punish anyone.

Do you believe that God can get angry and also be all-loving? What is your definition of all-loving?

I would like to turn that first phrase around a bit and say that man's ways are not god's ways. I see many interpretations of god to be exactly the way we act as humans. I am beginning to believe we make god in "our" image and give him many of the human emotions such as anger, jealousy and in need of something. I don't see why an all powerful being needs anything. So I guess in a way I answered your second question too. I don't see god as anything but all loving and never angry but infinitely patient. I see anger as a human emotion as I already said.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

I would like to turn that first phrase around a bit and say that man's ways are not god's ways. I see many interpretations of god to be exactly the way we act as humans. I am beginning to believe we make god in "our" image and give him many of the human emotions such as anger, jealousy and in need of something. I don't see why an all powerful being needs anything. So I guess in a way I answered your second question too. I don't see god as anything but all loving and never angry but infinitely patient. I see anger as a human emotion as I already said.

Then we disagree about God. I believe the Bible to be His word.

 

[challupa]

Okay, I'll grant that's possible, but I can't verify it.




So since you don't know who has tried hardest, why are you so annoyed that some of us are Christians? You don't know how hard we've tried.

I don't believe I am annoyed that some people are Christians. If I said that anywhere I apologize. I see every religion as trying hard to do what is right and I am sure you are no exception. I do struggle with hearing things that do not include people: you will not go to heaven unless you believe in Jesus for example. I think that is exclusive and divides humanity. But I don't see people who believe that as bad. I really would like to see people drop the notion of punishment at the hands of God, but that is something I do not have control over, nor should I.