Why God created people that are destined for Hell...

[ἀλήθεια]

What has a Christian done that is better than what a follower of another religion has done?

The answer wouldn't satisfy someone who doesn't want to follow Christ. But a Christian hasn't done anything better. We are saved by what Christ has done for the sheep.

You cannot just say that those who follow Jesus get rewarded and those who don't get punished, because that is completely evil unless the ones who got it right did something better than the ones who got it wrong.

Now you are saying that God's Provision is evil. So you believe that you can determine what is right and wrong or good and evil. What if you just happen to be wrong?

You are just telling me how one gets saved, I already know this. I already know that to be saved you have to believe in Jesus, but this is absolutely disgusting.

Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. (Matthew 15:11)

Its disgusting because there is nothing better about believing in Christianity over believing in Hinduism. The Christians just think that if they happen to be right, they will get a reward for being right. Yeah well good luck getting into heaven just because your beleifs happened to be true.

If you get someone who is just as faithful as a Christian, but is a Muslim, please tell me how on earth God can reward the Christian just for being right.

How can God create a heaven and earth?

Again this talks about a belief in God, not in Christianity or Jesus. Many Christians believe that followers of all religions will go to heaven.

Which Bible are these people using?

I don't give a dam what Jesus claims, that is absolutely pointless.

I think we knew that you didn't and don't care.

Islam and Christianity are equal. If you disagree then please tell me - like I've asked plenty of times - what Christians are doing that Muslims are not.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:18)

In other words: He will judge you based on whether or not your beleifs are true, just as I said you were saying.

He sent Jesus to save those who have faith in Christ. But many will say, "I don't give a dam what Jesus claims..."

And since religious beleifs are based on faith, whether or not they are right is pure luck. So again, you have said that God rewards and punishes based on sheer luck.

How do you know it is luck? Maybe how you look at it determines your analysis of it.

God can only reward/punish us on our attempt to find truth, not on whether or not we actually found it.

Really? How do you know who tried the hardest?

 

[HoldemDB9]

The answer wouldn't satisfy someone who doesn't want to follow Christ. But a Christian hasn't done anything better. We are saved by what Christ has done for the sheep.

Ok now you've admitted it. A Christian has not done anything better or more reward worthy than a Muslim or Hindu has done. So please tell me than, how is it fair that God favours them? You have already admitted that they have done nothing better, so how on EARTH can they be favoured?

Now you are saying that God's Provision is evil. So you believe that you can determine what is right and wrong or good and evil. What if you just happen to be wrong?

Wow, so you are actually saying that a God who punishes and rewards people on sheer luck is just, righteous and loving?

Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. (Matthew 15:11)

How can God create a heaven and earth?

Please tell me how on earth this is related to the question I asked and then please answer my question.

Which Bible are these people using?

Why don't you go and ask them yourselves because most Christians on this forum believe that followers of all religions are going to heaven. And from what I've seen, its usually only the Christians who don't know much about Christianity (most Christians) who believe that only Christians are going to heaven.

I think we knew that you didn't and don't care.

Don't care about what? I didn't mean that what Jesus actually said was pointless. I said that when roli was using that quote from the Bible, it was pointless in his reply because it had nothing to do with my question.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:18)

Again, please answer my question. All you are doing is confirming that your God will punish and reward based on sheer chance. To punish and reward people because of their beleifs, the ones who had true beleifs had to have done something that was worthy of a reward. Please tell me what Christians are doing. Or like I suspect, cant you? You just have faith that Christianity is true and you think that if it is true, you will be favoured by God over an equally faithfully Muslim. Its disgusting.

He sent Jesus to save those who have faith in Christ. But many will say, "I don't give a dam what Jesus claims..."

God cannot reward people for having faith in a religion which happened to be true. They have done NOTHING, they have just chose to have faith that its true. There are hundreds of millions of Christians who have not tried very hard to find truth, they just choose to have faith in Jesus. But there are 10s of millions who have tried harder to find truth, but are not Christian. You are saying that God favours the ones who tried less - who put LESS effort in.

And like I said in my above reply, I didn't say that I don't give a dam about what Jesus claims.

How do you know it is luck? Maybe how you look at it determines your analysis of it.

I know its luck because its faith. Wow I cant believe you've even asked me this. If you only have faith that something is true, then of course whether or not it is, is just pure luck. Also, you cant seem to explain to me how being saved is anything but sheer luck.

Really? How do you know who tried the hardest?

Yes really, because like I said, whether or not your faith is true, is just chance. And I don't know who tried their hardest, but God does. But I do know that some non-Christians are trying harder than most Christian. In fact, every single non-Christian on this forum is doing a better job at searching for true beliefs than the vast vast majority of Christians who just have blind faith.

You still have not at all explained how achieving salvation is anything but sheer luck. You still have not told me how a Christian can be favoured by God over a Muslim. I've brought this up plenty of times and it seems the only way out is to agree that all God believers go to Heaven or that Christians are searching for truth harder or more honesty than non-Christians.

Why don't you look at it from another perspective for a second, since it looks like you would never dare go against the Bible. Imagine that Islam is true, would you feel that God is being completely fair by punishing you JUST because your beleifs (the beliefs that you honestly thought were true and that you lived by) were false? How would you feel if God was going to reward every single Muslim who didn't try as hard as you to find truth with eternal life, but he was not going to reward you. You tried harder, you were just as faithful, but your faith was wrong and therefore you will be punished. This is how you are saying your God is.

This whole idea that God will reward those with true beleifs based on faith makes absolutely no sense at all, but it is needed to keep most religions going. Do you think that God will favour a young earth creationist over a normal person, just because their beliefs happened to be true?

 

[McBell]

Why don't you look at it from another perspective for a second, since it looks like you would never dare go against the Bible. Imagine that Islam is true, would you feel that God is being completely fair by punishing you JUST because your beleifs (the beliefs that you honestly thought were true and that you lived by) were false? How would you feel if God was going to reward every single Muslim who didn't try as hard as you to find truth with eternal life, but he was not going to reward you. You tried harder, you were just as faithful, but your faith was wrong and therefore you will be punished. This is how you are saying your God is.

Good luck getting a straight answer

 

[Riverwolf]

How can God create a heaven and earth?

Dude, creating the earth is not impressive at all.

Which Bible are these people using?

Same one you're using. They're just using other things as well, because God is not in the Bible.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:18)

"And behold! God will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden."(Qur'an 5:116)

 

[Riverwolf]

Ok now you've admitted it. A Christian has not done anything better or more reward worthy than a Muslim or Hindu has done. So please tell me than, how is it fair that God favours them? You have already admitted that they have done nothing better, so how on EARTH can they be favoured?

Allow me to explain what I think is going on, based on finally reading Paul's letters.

God doesn't "allow" people into heaven. What's going on is that Christ is extending his hand to people, offering them a chance in heaven if only they'd take his hand. "I'll save you from this living hell and the eternal death hereafter, but you have to willingly take my hand. The choice is yours, not mine." (not a Biblical quote; those are my words trying to solidify what's going on)

 

[challupa]

Exactly.

To me, God = Tao = Do = Dharma... WAY. Heck, Christ himself says he is the "WAY".

MoonWater last night came up with a theory that on Jesus's travels (there are legends that say he traveled all over the place) he stopped by India and China and heard of Buddha and his teachings. He then adopted Buddhist philosophy with his native Judaic religion and began to teach. It is a fact that Jesus's philosophy is nearly identical with that of Buddha.

At core, all religions are compatable. It's the tiny mythological details that causes the dissention, or at least turning a personal religion into a political tool, like what happened to Christianity.

That is so interesting you think that. There is actually some writings about a scroll in a monastary in Tibet that tells of Yeshua, a young woman named Miriam, Thomas, John the Baptist and Joseph of Arimathea that travelled to India, and Tibet and learned from the masters of that time. So when MW hypothesizes that he did this, there are actually those who say they have been shown this scroll and talked to monks who know alot about Jesus and compare him to Buddha. So if this is not just a farce, you could be very right. He was also said to have attended the Mystery Schools of Alexandria, in Egypt. Interesting huh!

 

[logician]

Allow me to explain what I think is going on, based on finally reading Paul's letters.

God doesn't "allow" people into heaven. What's going on is that Christ is extending his hand to people, offering them a chance in heaven if only they'd take his hand. "I'll save you from this living hell and the eternal death hereafter, but you have to willingly take my hand. The choice is yours, not mine." (not a Biblical quote; those are my words trying to solidify what's going on)

Except there are billions of peeople who for a number of reasons either have not heard of this supposed Jesus, or were brought up in many different religious and non-religious traditions. Where does that leave them?

 

[challupa]

except there are billions of peeople who for a number of reasons either have not heard of this supposed jesus, or were brought up in many different religious and non-religious traditions. Where does that leave them?

SOL? That's why it can't be true that there is only one way.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

Why don't you look at it from another perspective for a second, since it looks like you would never dare go against the Bible. Imagine that Islam is true, would you feel that God is being completely fair by punishing you JUST because your beleifs (the beliefs that you honestly thought were true and that you lived by) were false? How would you feel if God was going to reward every single Muslim who didn't try as hard as you to find truth with eternal life, but he was not going to reward you. You tried harder, you were just as faithful, but your faith was wrong and therefore you will be punished. This is how you are saying your God is.

Sorry, but you and I can never determine who tried harder. It isn't possible. I can't even claim to have tried harder.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

Except there are billions of peeople who for a number of reasons either have not heard of this supposed Jesus, or were brought up in many different religious and non-religious traditions. Where does that leave them?

Simply hearing about Jesus doesn't make a person have faith!

 

[challupa]

Simply hearing about Jesus doesn't make a person have faith!

Maybe not, but that isn't what he's saying. He's asking about those who never get to hear about Jesus. What happens to them? What you are saying makes no sense. An all loving all merciful, all knowing god would never create only one way to come to know him. He isn't that petty or small!

 

[ἀλήθεια]

Maybe not, but that isn't what he's saying. He's asking about those who never get to hear about Jesus. What happens to them? What you are saying makes no sense.

Of course, it doesn't. Lots of things don't make sense. So what?

An all loving all merciful, all knowing god would never create only one way to come to know him. He isn't that petty or small!

When did you meet God?

 

[challupa]

Of course, it doesn't. Lots of things don't make sense. So what?

So What!!! That's all you can say is So What? We are talking about life and death issues here, heaven or hell and you say So What. So what if those who weren't fortunate enough to hear about Jesus go to hell? Is that what you are saying? How merciful or loving is that?



When did you meet God?

I meet him daily, how bout you?

 

[ἀλήθεια]

I meet him daily, how bout you?

Good for you! So if He has authorized you to speak for Him, you can tell everyone what they should believe about Him.

 

[challupa]

Good for you! So if He has authorized you to speak for Him, you can tell everyone what they should believe about Him.

Absolutely not! It is a personal thing always and each one of us has our own way of figuring things out. I am not an interpreter for anyone but myself.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

So What!!! That's all you can say is So What? We are talking about life and death issues here, heaven or hell and you say So What. So what if those who weren't fortunate enough to hear about Jesus go to hell? [/quote]


Only sinners go to hell. Not one person goes to hell who doesn't deserve it.

Is that what you are saying? How merciful or loving is that?

You obviously don't love the Christian's God so you devote your time to trying to prove that He isn't merciful. But you can't prove anything about God. Christians aren't swayed by men's opinions. The whole world is filled with wickedness.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

Absolutely not! It is a personal thing always and each one of us has our own way of figuring things out. I am not an interpreter for anyone but myself.

The why are you telling us the following:

"An all loving all merciful, all knowing god would never create only one way to come to know him. He isn't that petty or small!"

 

[roli]

You have not told me several times. In fact, you have not told me once. What has a Christian done that is better than what a follower of another religion has done?

A Christian has.....Trusted in and believed on and received (key word) the Lord Jesus Christ as savior and king.
If one does'nt have Jesus, they don't have the Father,because Jesus claims to be the only way to the father.
1Jo 2:23Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].
Jhn 3:36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
1Jo 4:15Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
Jesus is not truth because I say so, or christianity says so, but because the Holy Spirit reveals Jesus as the truth to the individual believer,the spirit of truth confirms ,assures to us that we are saved, that Jesus the son and is alive and that the Father loves and forgives us.
I can't explain it in terms you or any other will comprehend in the rational mind or for that matter ackowledge,it is experientially manifested, only when the Holy Spirit comes upon a believer .
Jhn 15:23He that hateth me hateth my Father also.

Man can do nothing to earn God's favor ,all their good deeds,practicing of religious protocol, rituals,traditions and all other religious associations will be burned up at the judgement seat of God.
According to God's word, he will reward or punish based on what one does with His...Son, all man's good deeds are filthy and unacceptable in God's sight

You cannot just say that those who follow Jesus get rewarded and those who don't get punished, because that is completely evil unless the ones who got it right did something better than the ones who got it wrong.

You don't understand the severity of our sin before a Holy God
We all got it wrong, the only difference with Christians is that they trusted Jesus as savior and he came to dwell in them and confirm the truth of His word.
I don't know what God will do to others on judgement day, all I know is what his word says concerning this subject:
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

I'm sorry you have a hard time with this ,but that has been the problem down through the ages..man accepting Jesus by faith as the only means to salvation.
It's not what any other religion teaches or practices but it is what the law and prophets pointed towards and what Jesus himself confirmed in his life,death and burial through the spirit in which he left for the believer.

If you think your way is the way, that's your prerogative ,so don't shoot the messenger.

You are just telling me how one gets saved, I already know this
I already know that to be saved you have to believe in Jesus, but this is absolutely disgusting.

Fine with me, believe in what you want!!!

Its disgusting because there is nothing better about believing in Christianity over believing in Hinduism.

It may be that to you, maybe because you don't fully grasp the concept of the word believe, for it is that that you have eternal life.
I can't explain it,because it's an expereince and a joy and peace and assurrance that supercedes the rational mind. It's liberating when Christ reveals himself to you when you trust him,believe him and receive him.

The Christians just think that if they happen to be right, they will get a reward for being right.

Your wrong,it's not that I believe it and therefore it is right, but it's right because he reveals and confirms himself to be the truth.

Yeah well good luck getting into heaven just because your beleifs happened to be true.

If this christian life was just about guess work, I would probably still be confused frsutrated and empty and taking the same position as you are.
1Jo 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
1Cr 2:12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Rom 8:16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children
of God:
2Cr 5:5Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
2Cr 1:22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

..the spirit is the secret and the thing that separates Christianity from every other religion

If you get someone who is just as faithful as a Christian, but is a Muslim, please tell me how on earth God can reward the Christian just for being right.

man can not do anything to be justified before God, there has to be a payment for one's sins and that was made in Christ Jesus. Believe it or not these are his conditions.

Again this talks about a belief in God, not in Christianity or Jesus. Many Christians believe that followers of all religions will go to heaven.

I don't know who your listening to or what your defintion of Christian is, but that's not what Jesus taught or the law and the prophets spoke of.

I don't give a dam what Jesus claims, that is absolutely pointless.

Well there you have it...!

Islam and Christianity are equal.

Maybe in the sense that they are both religions and that they are both practiced through a set of protocols,writings and teachings, and there in lies the difference.

If you disagree then please tell me - like I've asked plenty of times - what Christians are doing that Muslims are not.

I personally disagree and I have told you that they are trusting in Jesus for their redemption.

God can only reward/punish us on our attempt to find truth, not on whether or not we actually found it.

At this point, I'll leave that up to you and God to decide.
But our bible tells us many times:
Jhn 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Jhn 3:36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Here it goes again, none of us deserve rewards , but only punishment

There is none righteous, all have sinned

That's what the word of God and Jesus tell us, "repent or perish"

 

[roli]

Roli, why are you so determined to make God something so small, vain, vindictive and petty?

I don't make him to be anything, it's he that reveals himself through his word, his son and his spirit

That's the definition of a human maybe, but not a God! Maybe it's time to redefine what God is and expand on knowledge that is thousands of years old. Maybe it's time to acknowledge that we don't really know all of what God is that maybe all religions haven't got it entirely right and all of them have it paritally right. We need to allow for new concepts of God so we can all live in harmony and quit fighting over the things that old concepts say are true.

Maybe your right, we don't fully understand God or his ways, but what I have personally found out about God, in and through Christ and hsi word has given me ample assurance in what he has revealed to me about himself.

I understand the world wants diversity across the table regarding religions, particularly Christianity and we certainly have that in our world today.
But what your introducing here is the "equality" of all religions,much like "universalism" virtually synonymous with a tossed salad.
Which by the way is a very noble,neutral, politically correct, and typically liberal position to take, but God is very clear in not sharing his glory with another or being brought down to man's level where they can recreate him to fit in their box.
That would be called"idolatry" I presume.

Jesus is equivalent to Buddha and Mohammed and on an on... So each one of the founders of the many religions are the truth and the way as they knew it.

That's not true and until you have an encounter with the truth of who he really is,be careful not to put words into his mouth.
Speaking for yourself, all other religions may have truth as they know it to be,but to know Jesus ,who claims to be the "epitome" of truth,....well ,that is another thing entirely.

But none of them are the total truth.

That certainly is your opinion, but I beg to differ,at least in how he has revealed himself to me and countless others who have experienced his presence.
Something to be had!!!

That is my opinion and if we would just admit that there are many things we don't know about God, maybe we could quit fighting over who is right and get down to the business of healing humanity by bringing harmony to the world.

There are many things we don't know about God,... then there are many things we can know about him and that only happens through the spirit, not intellect.
Jesus claimed to bring harmony,

via the fruit of the spirit

, love ,joy, peace,patience,kindness,gentleness,faithfulness and self control

..but man's methods of bringing harmony to the world and God's method's are dimetrically opposed.

 

[Reverend Rick]

What I find interesting is that people who do not believe in God, worry about where he is going to send them.