Why have Christians forgotten the fourth Commandment?

[Scuba Pete]

Then what does god judge you by?

YOUR HEART!!!
​

Luke 16:14The Pharisees, who loved money, heard all this and were sneering at Jesus. 15He said to them, "You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of men, but God knows your hearts. What is highly valued among men is detestable in God's sight. NIV

Romans 8: 26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will. NIV

 

[Aqualung]

YOUR HEART!!!
​

Luke 16:14The Pharisees, who loved money, heard all this and were sneering at Jesus. 15He said to them, "You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of men, but God knows your hearts. What is highly valued among men is detestable in God's sight. NIV

Romans 8: 26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will. NIV

That says what he judges, not what criteria he uses for judgement.

 

[Scuba Pete]

That says what he judges, not what criteria he uses for judgement.

You lost me here. He knows our hearts.

 

[Aqualung]

You lost me here. He knows our hearts.

Yes, but what does he use to determine if our hearts (which he knows) are good or bad? Is it some platonic idea where there is some "heart" in space that is the perfect form a heart, and all God does is judge how close our "hearts" come to that perfect form? Or what sort of criteria does he use to judge these hearts?

 

[d.n.irvin]

Dude... you are headed down the path of legalism.

legalism? where? I tell you to rest on the True Sabbath not the fake one

Thanks, but no thanks. I don't care how you twist the scriptures,

End-time Christians have got to study the Bible a little more in detail especially Bible Prophecy, I never twist scripture I just study and compare all of them

but II Corinthians 3 is WAY CLEAR.
Legalism will not get you into heaven: Grace will.

No matter how you compare scripture the Bible never states that "Grace supersedes "Obedience!" -Example." Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord" -Does that mean he was absolved from obedience - nay,

Revelation the Last book of the Bible, identifies the saints of God as those who are Keeping the Commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus. Revelation also, points out that Satan's fury against the Church who keeps Gods Commandments.

And the Dragon[symbolic for Satan] was enraged with the woman[symbolic for the Church], and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Rev. 12:17

What commandments are these true, end-time Christians keeping?

The Apostle James clearly defines God's standard of judgment as His Ten commandment Law-

" If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself, you do well; but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever shall keep the whole law, yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For he who said, Do not commit adultery, also said, 'Do not murder. Now if you do not commit adultery, but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty" James 2-8-12

The "law of Liberty"is this - Christ sets us free from sin and empowers us to walk in obedience to God. He does for us what we can not do for ourselves, causing us to be all that he has called us to be !

James counsel in the New testament agrees with Solomons counsel in the Old testament. Their agreement testifies that God's purpose for his Ten Commandment Law is as constant as God Himself--

" Let us hear the conclusion in the whole matter: Fear God and keep His Commandments, for this is man's all. For God will bring every work into judgment, including every secret thing, whether good or evil." Eccl 12: 13-14

BEING OBEDIENT TO GOD CAN NEVER BE LEGALISM!

 

[d.n.irvin]

God has specifically and positively forbidden men to change His law by deletions or additions. To tamper with God's holy law in any way is one of the most fearful and dangerous things a person can do.

"Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish aught from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God."Deuteronomy 4:2. "Every word of God is pure. ... Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar." Proverbs 30:5, 6.

[ Jesus said "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:18-19

So who changed the Sabbath?

 

[Scuba Pete]

Yeah... let's have a look at James in a modern translation, and not stop at comma:

James 2:8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing right. 9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11 For he who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder." If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker. 12 Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment! NIV

The law that gives freedom is NOT the OT Law, but the covenent of Grace. Why do you despise Grace so much? Why are you so bent on being a legalist and imposing laws where none are meant to be imposed? You can keep your judgment, and I will stick to mercy.

 

[d.n.irvin]

There has been no change or loss of the Sabbath since God made it in Genesis. The origin of the week is found in the creation story. There is no scientific or astronomical reason for measuring time in cycles of seven days. It is an arbitrary arrangement of God and has been miraculously preserved for one reason - because the holy Sabbath day points to the creative power of the only true God. It is a sign of His sovereignty over the world and over human life; a sign of creation and redemption.

Who changed the Seventh - Day Sabbath of the Bible? Most people go to church[ worship God] on Sunday[unholy and unbiblical] Why?

 

[doppelganger]

Who changed the Seventh - Day Sabbath of the Bible? Most people go to church[ worship God] on Sunday[unholy and unbiblical] Why?

Because that's when Sunday services are usually scheduled.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Yes, but what does he use to determine if our hearts (which he knows) are good or bad? Is it some platonic idea where there is some "heart" in space that is the perfect form a heart, and all God does is judge how close our "hearts" come to that perfect form? Or what sort of criteria does he use to judge these hearts?

The Spirit will do that for us.

Galatians 4:6 Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father." 7 So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir.8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. 9 But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? 10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you. NIV

II Corinthians 1:21 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. NIV

 

[Scuba Pete]

God has specifically and positively forbidden men to change His law by deletions or additions. To tamper with God's holy law in any way is one of the most fearful and dangerous things a person can do.


So who changed the Sabbath?

God... why do you want to argue with God? Let's look at one verse you quoted:

Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. NIV

Jesus fulfilled the entire law. He didn't abolish it, but rather he accomplished it. It's like the mortgage on my house. It's only binding while I owe money on it. Once it's paid off, I am no longer obligated to live up to it. I can't abolish it, but I sure can fulfill it. Jesus paid a debt I could not pay.

Hebrews 8:7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said:
"The time is coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them, declares the Lord.
10 his is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11 No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,'
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more."[c] 13 By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear. NIV

But, as I have indicated before: you can live in the past UNDER the law, but don't expect to be saved by Grace.

 

[d.n.irvin]

Yeah... let's have a look at James in a modern translation, and not stop at comma:

James 2:8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing right. 9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11 For he who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder." If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker. 12 Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment! NIV

Now tie that in with keeping the Seventh -Day Sabbath

The law that gives freedom is NOT the OT Law, but the covenent of Grace.

Freedom from what?

Why do you despise Grace so much?

I don't despise anything -you misunderstand

Why are you so bent on being a legalist and imposing laws where none are meant to be imposed?

You really mean why do I do what God says, or asks. I have not imposed anything -Read your Bible and ask for Gods guidance to understanding in respect to what you read. Understand this though: Christians follow Christ and His teachings -Christians worship God by going to church -the discrepancy in the end-times is over the Day you go to Church[worship] -You say Sunday, the first day of the week is the Day God approved for Worship -But the Bible says that Saturday the seventh day of the week, is the day out of six God has Approved for worship -Who is right God or Man?

Where is the legalism? You can keep your judgment, and I will stick to mercy.

What judgment? I have no judgment? are you following the posts? You only need to be concerned with what the Bible has to say - that goes for anyone, judge my words against the Harmony of Scripture -not the Doctrines of men

The question you should be asking is who changed the Sabbath? and why? These are the real questions. Why has most of the Christian world adopted a false day of worship EVEN WHEN BIBLE PROPHECY WARNS IT WOULD TAKE PLACE. Why don't more Christians understand the Prophecies of Daniel and Revelation? What do todays Christians think the real issues are?

 

[Scuba Pete]

What do todays Christians think the real issues are?

The same as it was when Jesus was among us: learning to love your neighbor.

Complete this sentence:

"They will know you are my disciples by____________________"

If you put down "following the Sabbath", you need to rethink your Christianity. Stop majoring in the minors and see what's really important.

 

[Aqualung]

The Spirit will do that for us.

You still are not answering my question. It doesn't matter WHO or WHAT. It matters WHAT CRITERIA. So far, you have answered who (the spirit) and what (the heart), but have not answered what criteria.

 

[d.n.irvin]

God... why do you want to argue with God? Let's look at one verse you quoted:

Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. NIV

Jesus fulfilled the entire law. He didn't abolish it, but rather he accomplished it. It's like the mortgage on my house. It's only binding while I owe money on it. Once it's paid off, I am no longer obligated to live up to it. I can't abolish it, but I sure can fulfill it. Jesus paid a debt I could not pay.

Hebrews 8:7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said:
"The time is coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them, declares the Lord.
10 his is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11 No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,'
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more."[c] 13 By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear. NIV

Again you understanding of the usage of the word "law" comes into play- I showed you the Bibles mention of the Law of God and the Book of the Covenant

But, as I have indicated before: you can live in the past UNDER the law, but don't expect to be saved by Grace.

I question, what Universal Laws of Mathematics teach that when we Simplify an equation we Subtract from it? Example:

-[FONT=&quot]For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.[/FONT]

The key phrase in this passage is "all the law"- if ALL of the Law[Ten Commandments] is fulfilled in one word LOVE- then nothing has been taken away from the Law -the fourth Commandment- Remember the Sabbath day to keep it Holy is included in " ALL the law"

 

[d.n.irvin]

GOD does not change!

Luke 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Psalms 89:34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

Psalms 111:7, 8 All his commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever.

Malachi 3:6 For I am the Lord, I change not.


***The Law sends us to Jesus, to know wrong is to seek a Saviour from wrong.

John 3:4 Sin is the transgression of the law.

Romans 3:20 By the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 7:7 I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Jesus kept the Law

John 15:10 I have kept my Father's commandments

**All have sinned

Romans 3:23 For All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God


**If God's law could be changed, it would not have been necessary for Jesus to die on the cross
Romans 6:23 The wages of sin is death.

Matthew 19:17 If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God.
**How do we keep the commandments?

Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Romans 8:3, 4 God sending his own Son ... condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us.

Philippians 1:6 He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ

**The Old Covenant

Deuteronomy 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Hebrews 8:8-9 For finding fault with them, he saith, ... I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

The fault with the old covenant was with the people, not with God or His law.
Psalms 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

**New Covenant based on Old Covenant

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make ... saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts.

**The two covenants were agreements between God and His people. The old covenant failed because it was based upon the faulty promises and works of the people.
Exodus 24:7 All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient.
The new covenant succeeds because it is God's law written in the heart and is based upon Jesus' promises and His miracle-working power.
Hebrews 8:10 I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts.
A person's entire nature is changed, so he finds doing God's will a pleasure. Notice that the new covenant is based on the same law, but it is written in a different place (the heart) and based on better promises (God's).

Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin (break God's law), because we are not under the law, but under grace? God Forbid

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law


**All are saved by the miracle-working grace of God. But those who are saved, or transformed, by the grace of Jesus will want to obey His law as an expression of their love and thanksgiving to Him.
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Romans 13:10 Therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

**Love for God motivates me to keep is law

Matthew 22:37-39 Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

1 John 2:3, 4 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

** Satan hates commandment keepers

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon [devil] was wroth with the woman [the church], and went to make war with the remnant of her seed [faithful during the end time], which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


1 John 5:3 This is the love of God, that we keep his commandments


Friends God is comming for a church that keeps All His Commandments. Let the Bible interpret itself. Believe it for what it is, the Holy Word of God. Our minds our small, thats why Jesus says just be obedient. Trust in Him. Inconvience and reproach are sure. But Christ gives us the victory.

 

[d.n.irvin]

The same as it was when Jesus was among us: learning to love your neighbor.

Complete this sentence:

"They will know you are my disciples by____________________"

If you put down "following the Sabbath", you need to rethink your Christianity. Stop majoring in the minors and see what's really important.

The point is, and what your not getting out of what I am saying is this; -What does Bible Prophecy in Daniel and Revelation say about the change of the Seventh Day Sabbath in regards to the end-time events, Not me Not you What does the Bible say -You can't discredit the Bible -Nor can you be mad at me because I study

 

[d.n.irvin]

Because that's when Sunday services are usually scheduled.

Are you Christian? and if so, Do you think it is better to obey God - or obey men? What does Bible Prophecy have to say about the change of the Seventh Day Sabbath? Why do most Christians blindly follow the teachings and commandments of men - rather than follow the Christ's admonishion of good old fashion -personal Bible study and prayer?

 

[doppelganger]

Are you Christian?

Depends on who you ask. :rainbow1:

Do you think it is better to obey God - or obey men?

I think it is better to think and act on the assumption that one is one's own moral agent rather than blame it on "obeying" either "God" or "men."

What does Bible Prophecy have to say about the change of the Seventh Day Sabbath?

That some people would be really upset about it?

Why do most Christians blindly follow the teachings and commandments of men - rather than follow the Christ's admonishion of good old fashion -personal Bible study and prayer?

I don't know. You'd have to ask "most Christians."

 

[Scuba Pete]

God doesn't change, but WE DO.

Do you deny we have a New Covenant?