Why have Islamic nations been so easy to corrupt?

[Tumah]

I think that in the vast majority of cases, the nature of a person in power is that he wants to have a position of power.
How corruptible he is, will also depend on how he weighs the value of this desire for power against other values that he may or may not have.

So in general, an person of political power is already going to be more inclined to corruptibility than the average person. Even if he reigns that desire in, in favor of better values.

 

[Sees]

Well, if I'm Satan, I'm certainly not living the high life like I'm said to be.

lol your true identity was found out Frank!

 

[dust1n]

Thank you very much for reading.

My pleasure.

I did not get this, perhaps you mean those who do corruption feel satisfaction? if so, they may feel satisfaction in short term but end is not theirs, never have been.

Oh, I meant... If corruption is a sign on the end times, does that contribute to complacency of corruption?

I'm sure these aren't analogous at all, but as an example, there are subset of very traditional Christians that believe the fall is Israel is a condition preceding the Christian prophecies of apocalypse. So, some of these Christian groups see a giant war in the Middle East as a condition to bring about the end of the world, which they see as a good thing since they think they will find themselves in heaven. So, these Christians are not necessarily against the fall of Israel at all. In fact, it's an inevitable prediction. So there is incentive to be complacent about war in the Middle East. Why stop it at all, if it helps ya out in the end.

So I was wondering if there was anything like in Islam concerning corrupt officials. In a sense, if corruption is bad but inevitable, and will eventually lead to the end-times as prophesied in Islam, then is it possible that a portion of Muslims see this as inevitable as well, thus, why fight it?

If you have agreed so far, it should not be too much if I humbly request you find books and philosophies of peace for whole world by Ahmadiyya-Muslims here @ Islamic Books | Online Islamic Library - Al Islam Online [wwwDOTalislamDOTorg/books/ ], even if you are not a religious person you will find a lot of wisdom there.

Thanks indeed. Wish and pray best for you and world.

Thanks for the resources, I'll download some and put them on my Kindle for some future readings. I could always use a clear picture. Peace be on ya.

 

[dust1n]

Offhand, I can't think of one instance where the imposition or implementation of free-market capitalism and raw democracy (in the form of automatic universal suffrage) without any corresponding social safety-nets hasn't resulted in disaster.

And that's just when we (the First-World Western nations) are being at last sort-of above-board about things.

This is true. I suppose the best ya can hope for is a well established institution with disincentives well-planned to stop what we often find objectionable.

 

[dust1n]

And the US is supporting the Saudi Royal family.

Yes. And the Saudi's are supporting the US.

I find some objectionable things have resulted out of this relationship.

 

[dust1n]

This direct answer is that these nations are run by dictators who see their people as the threat, and seek help from the outside to continue oppressing their own people.

But why are the [Islamic] countries tend to be run by dictators. As a Shia- and with respect to my Sunni brothers and sisters- i see the cause to be clear. The majority of the Muslims turned back after the death of their prophet. They altered their religion. And declared that fighting their dictators is not allowed in Islam. I am not making this up. it is in their main books. you can Google search it.

I tried finding some more information about this, but wasn't having much luck. Is there sort of a specific instance or time I should be looking at?

 

[dust1n]

Imam? A US member from out in the Boomdocks (South Dakota I think...... he told me what Boomdocks means) is an elderly convert to Islam, and the very small Muslim community chose him to be the Imam because of his age. I am name-dyslexic and can't remember it. He may join this debate........ a very wise and sensible debater.

That would be great!

It's boondocks, btw. =)

I think that mostly any politics (even tyranny), and any system, with any mixture of Atheism or Theism, amongst any cultures.... can be fine.......... it's just the bloody (bad) people who bugger it all up with greed for power, mammon, status blah blah....... I just look at people.....

EDIT: The only issues I have had with Islam in Britain have been about forcing children to learn the qu'ran to Hafiz standard (gains the parents a place in heaven) and treatment of women. I was only supported over Islamic education in the UK by one RF member from Maine....... our authorities are finding and stopping educational extremism where they find it, now.

I think these are both valid sentiments. I wish I had an easy, or even workable solution.

 

[dust1n]

I think that in the vast majority of cases, the nature of a person in power is that he wants to have a position of power.
How corruptible he is, will also depend on how he weighs the value of this desire for power against other values that he may or may not have.

So in general, an person of political power is already going to be more inclined to corruptibility than the average person. Even if he reigns that desire in, in favor of better values.

This is interesting to me. And definitely a very personal of putting it. Do you think, perhaps, that if the situation were reversed in a sense, and the people who are put in power are definitely qualified, but in no way were seeking the position, nor the power and the responsibility that goes with?

I'm sure that's a romantic myth somewhere, begging the hero to take leadership when he is capable of doing so, because he simply doesn't wish to have that sort of power.

 

[dust1n]

This is one of the huge number of Sunni Hadiths prohibiting them from facing their dictators.

It's from 'Sahih Muslim' one of the two most authentic Sunni books after the Quran:



Hudhayfa ibn al-Yaman reported: I asked, “O Messenger of Allah, we were living in an evil time and Allah brought us good which we live in now. Will there be evil after this good?” The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Yes.” I said, “And any good after this evil?” The Prophet said, “Yes.” I said, “And any evil after this good?” The Prophet said, “Yes.” I said, “How will it be?” The Prophet said, “Rulers after me will come who do not follow my guidance and my tradition (sunnah). Some of their men will have the hearts of devils in a human body.” I said, “O Messenger of Allah, what should I do if I live to see that time?” The Prophet said, “You should listen and obey them even if the ruler strikes your back and takes your wealth, even still listen and obey.”

Source: Sahih Muslim 1847

Grade: Sahih (authentic) according to Sunnis

قَالَ حُذَيْفَةُ بْنُ الْيَمَانِ قُلْتُ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ إِنَّا كُنَّا بِشَرٍّ فَجَاءَ اللَّهُ بِخَيْرٍ فَنَحْنُ فِيهِ فَهَلْ مِنْ وَرَاءِ هَذَا الْخَيْرِ شَرٌّ قَالَ نَعَمْ قُلْتُ هَلْ وَرَاءَ ذَلِكَ الشَّرِّ خَيْرٌ قَالَ نَعَمْ قُلْتُ فَهَلْ وَرَاءَ ذَلِكَ الْخَيْرِ شَرٌّ قَالَنَعَمْ قُلْتُ كَيْفَ قَالَ يَكُونُ بَعْدِي أَئِمَّةٌ لَا يَهْتَدُونَ بِهُدَايَ وَلَا يَسْتَنُّونَ بِسُنَّتِي وَسَيَقُومُ فِيهِمْ رِجَالٌ قُلُوبُهُمْ قُلُوبُ الشَّيَاطِينِ فِي جُثْمَانِ إِنْسٍ قَالَ قُلْتُ كَيْفَ أَصْنَعُ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ إِنْ أَدْرَكْتُ ذَلِكَ قَالَتَسْمَعُ وَتُطِيعُ لِلْأَمِيرِ وَإِنْ ضُرِبَ ظَهْرُكَ وَأُخِذَ مَالُكَ فَاسْمَعْ وَأَطِعْ

1847 صحيح مسلم كِتَاب الْإِمَارَةِ نعم فقلت هل بعد ذلك الشر من خير قال نعم وفيه دخن قلت

Thanks. That's pretty straight forward.

Although, I'm particularly confused about Sunni aversion to, I guess, spiritual-political leaders, but an authority with hadiths, considering they are written by various authors who, I guess who would be speaking on what they said the prophet said to them.

I apparently got a lot to learn.

 

[dust1n]

Corruption in the muslim world cannot be blamed on the kuffar.
The blame on the kuffar is only their support for tyrannical regimes and their much hated method of forcing democrasy on the throats of muslims.
As for corruptions, that is to be blamed on the puppet leaders and the weak governance.

I agree, but it really doesn't help our case in the matter when our corrupt regime is constantly pushing weapons and war in the region, and general economic meddling.

 

[DawudTalut]

My pleasure.

Peace be on you. Your are welcome.

Oh, I meant... If corruption is a sign on the end times, does that contribute to complacency of corruption?

I'm sure these aren't analogous at all, but as an example, there are subset of very traditional Christians that believe the fall is Israel is a condition preceding the Christian prophecies of apocalypse. So, some of these Christian groups see a giant war in the Middle East as a condition to bring about the end of the world, which they see as a good thing since they think they will find themselves in heaven. So, these Christians are not necessarily against the fall of Israel at all. In fact, it's an inevitable prediction. So there is incentive to be complacent about war in the Middle East. Why stop it at all, if it helps ya out in the end.

So I was wondering if there was anything like in Islam concerning corrupt officials. In a sense, if corruption is bad but inevitable, and will eventually lead to the end-times as prophesied in Islam, then is it possible that a portion of Muslims see this as inevitable as well, thus, why fight it?

1-To counter this sad-corruption there is divine plan. [No, it is not like 'why fight it'.]
2- It is to be achieved through peaceful and spiritual means, no use for force.
3- To eradicate this prophesied corruption, the promised solution [Jihad-with-prayers-and-pen-and-services] is in action figure i.e. the devotee of Holy Prophet (pbuh) was to come; and he has come (according to Ahmadiyya-Muslims, now his fifth Khalifah is in office)

Thanks for the resources, I'll download some and put them on my Kindle for some future readings. I could always use a clear picture. Peace be on ya.

Thanks for determination, if down the road, you need to meet them, there is worldwide including USA 'contact us' in alislam.org

Good wishes.

 

[DawudTalut]

My pleasure.

Peace be on you. Your are welcome.

Oh, I meant... If corruption is a sign on the end times, does that contribute to complacency of corruption?

I'm sure these aren't analogous at all, but as an example, there are subset of very traditional Christians that believe the fall is Israel is a condition preceding the Christian prophecies of apocalypse. So, some of these Christian groups see a giant war in the Middle East as a condition to bring about the end of the world, which they see as a good thing since they think they will find themselves in heaven. So, these Christians are not necessarily against the fall of Israel at all. In fact, it's an inevitable prediction. So there is incentive to be complacent about war in the Middle East. Why stop it at all, if it helps ya out in the end.

So I was wondering if there was anything like in Islam concerning corrupt officials. In a sense, if corruption is bad but inevitable, and will eventually lead to the end-times as prophesied in Islam, then is it possible that a portion of Muslims see this as inevitable as well, thus, why fight it?

1-To counter this sad-corruption there is divine plan. [No, it is not like 'why fight it'.]
2- It is to be achieved through peaceful and spiritual means, no use for force.
3- To eradicate this prophesied corruption, the promised solution [Jihad-with-prayers-and-pen-and-services] is in action figure i.e. the devotee of Holy Prophet (pbuh) was to come; and he has come (according to Ahmadiyya-Muslims, now his fifth Khalifah is in office)

Thanks for the resources, I'll download some and put them on my Kindle for some future readings. I could always use a clear picture. Peace be on ya.

Thanks for determination, if down the road, you need to meet them, there is worldwide including USA 'contact us' in alislam.org

Good wishes.

 

[dust1n]

1-To counter this sad-corruption there is divine plan. [No, it is not like 'why fight it'.]
2- It is to be achieved through peaceful and spiritual means, no use for force.
3- To eradicate this prophesied corruption, the promised solution [Jihad-with-prayers-and-pen-and-services] is in action figure i.e. the devotee of Holy Prophet (pbuh) was to come; and he has come (according to Ahmadiyya-Muslims, now his fifth Khalifah is in office)

I see, there are follow up instructions. This is great. I hope these methods are successful, and some of the oppression of the world alleviated.

 

[DawudTalut]

all of them..Aameen.

 

[Tumah]

This is interesting to me. And definitely a very personal of putting it. Do you think, perhaps, that if the situation were reversed in a sense, and the people who are put in power are definitely qualified, but in no way were seeking the position, nor the power and the responsibility that goes with?

I'm sure that's a romantic myth somewhere, begging the hero to take leadership when he is capable of doing so, because he simply doesn't wish to have that sort of power.

I think the world would be a very different place if that were to happen in politics. The question is how that would affect democracy. If the people in power are not doing it for personal gain, they also may not be so easily swayed by popular opinion if they believe they know better. In a way, democracy probably plays off a person's natural desire to be in power as it means that the only way to retain one's power is through listening to the public.

 

[Shad]

So I was wondering if there was anything like in Islam concerning corrupt officials. In a sense, if corruption is bad but inevitable, and will eventually lead to the end-times as prophesied in Islam, then is it possible that a portion of Muslims see this as inevitable as well, thus, why fight it?

There is. It is IS's primary focus and the lens they view Islam through. They are an apocalyptic group.

 

[Sunstone]

There cant be such a thing as "corrupted real Muslim", no real Muslim would be corrupted. Also you dont have to be a Muslim, no person with a bit honor would betrays his/her nation or country.

You have a charmingly childlike view of the world.

 

[thau]

Hello. I just wanted some varied opinions from all you crazy kids out there.

Whether it be UK, or America, Russia, Saudi Arabia... why are so many countries so easily corrupted by the Western influences that are often being claim to be fought?

I noticed this issue where the West is identified as the cause of some problem in the ME (which has, no doubt, happened in various ways and times), but there seems to be a bit a disagreement about how much "West" is influencing even given region.

So then my question is, why has it been so easy for Islamic nations to be manipulated from outside forces.

I'm just curious as to what all the possible answer might be. Thanks.

Too much Islamic ideologies or cells use those kinds of charges as an excuse for their violence and hatred. Such as the settlements in the West Bank is the whole reason they hate Israel so much. That is beyond absurd, and history will bear that out.

Same with the West having capital interests in that backwards land back in the early 20th century. Get over yourselves Muslims. You have the oil and the riches to make things right for your people but you cannot even get along with your own kind. If someone believes a little different about Allah, Muhammed or the Koran than you do, that is reason enough for you to go to war. As history has shown.

Now some are suggesting the West is the real reason Islamic leadership and clerics act so violently or irrationally? I doubt it. There is only one God and one Word. If they go against that Word and demand their "heavenly message" is the only truth, then there is something mystical going on here. It can be termed as a clash between truth and lies, between good and evil to some degree. As the Word in the Bible says --- we war not against flesh and blood but against the evil spirits in the air. (paraphrase). For me there is no mystery why some forces are so malevolent.

 

[Shia Islam]

Al-Wahab is one of 99 names of Allah swt. I advise you not to use that.

In Arabic, when associating to a compound-word one part of the word is used. For example, if someone is from Aldar-AlBaidaa, he is referred to as AlBaidawi.

So Wahhabi means AbulWaahabi...the reference is to Abd Al Wahhab, not to Al wahhab.

And remember that their is an ancient Sunni scholar called AL Wahidi.

Finally the one who is claiming that something is Haram needs to bring a proof from within the religion to support his claim.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

In Arabic, when associating to a compound-word one part of the word is used. For example, if someone is from Aldar-AlBaidaa, he is referred to as AlBaidawi.

So Wahhabi means AbulWaahabi...the reference is to Abd Al Wahhab, not to Al wahhab.

And remember that their is an ancient Sunni scholar called AL Wahidi.

Finally the one who is claiming that something is Haram needs to bring a proof from within the religion to support his claim.

Still, it is advised by all ulama not to say wahabi, and this is term used by enemies of islam.
Because wahabi comes Al-Wahab, and they say whatever evil is advocated by Al-Wahab and his followers. So this is really conspiracy by the kuffar.