Why I think there is one right religion

[outhouse]

How is that faith when we see the number of the muslims in the world ?

The religious have faith. It is theology.

Theology does not require evidence.

Most religions were born of mythology, and the abrahamic deity is no exception by any historical standard.

 

[Sunstone]

What we normally call “random” is not truly random, but only appears so. The randomness is a reflection of our ignorance about the thing being observed, rather than something inherent to it.

For example: If you know everything about a craps table, and everything about the dice being thrown, and everything about the air around the table, then you will be able to predict the outcome.

"Randomness" as the term is typically used in physics, please. You can google it if you don't know what that means.

 

[outhouse]

Your religion is good for you. wonderful. keep at it.


But it is not for everyone. There is no one right religion.

 

[Sabour]

It is good. Language is a barrier that doesn't lend itself for easy communication, regardless of skill.

By the way, it's "message", not "massage." I'd like a massage right now, but that's another topic...

I also get confused bwtween then and than ... I always take a chance with one of them , and it always turn out to be wrong

 

[Sabour]

"Randomness" as the term is typically used in physics, please. You can google it if you don't know what that means.

That is what I did. And the sentence I said was from the first result
https://www.google.com.cy/?gws_rd=cr&ei=0yRcU4mpEubJ4ASv0YE4#q=randomness+in+physics&spell=1

 

[Ouroboros]

I also get confused bwtween then and than ... I always take a chance with one of them , and it always turn out to be wrong

Even ardent natives of the English language make that mistake.

Then is more of a temporal (time) thing. First I ate the ice cream, then I ate the cookie.

Than is more of a comparison. I have a bigger ice cream than you.

English is not my first language, and I constantly screw up on things too.

 

[Sabour]

Your religion is good for you. wonderful. keep at it.


But it is not for everyone. There is no one right religion.

Well thank you. What made you say that it is good for me? And do think at a certain point I would become an atheist ? I was told that almost all atheist were strong believers

 

[Sabour]

Even ardent natives of the English language make that mistake.

Then is more of a temporal (time) thing. First I ate the ice cream, then I ate the cookie.

Than is more of a comparison. I have a bigger ice cream than you.

I was provided that information 1000 times. How many times I made use of it ? 0000

 

[Ouroboros]

I was provided that information 1000 times. How many times I made use of it ? 0000

Hehe. Totally understand.

 

[Sunstone]

That is what I did. And the sentence I said was from the first result
https://www.google.com.cy/?gws_rd=cr&ei=0yRcU4mpEubJ4ASv0YE4#q=randomness+in+physics&spell=1

OK, I give up. I'll spell it out for you. Basically, in physics and some other fields, you can think of randomness as referring to situations where the outcome is uncertain.

And now that you have that, you can consult the physics of biology to find out how order can arise through "random" combinations of matter and energy.

 

[outhouse]

Well thank you. What made you say that it is good for me?

because you so happy about it you want to share.

And do think at a certain point I would become an atheist ?

It is possible, but I have no idea. Nor am I here to change your belief.

I was told that almost all atheist were strong believers

No

I just study religion historically.

 

[Sir Doom]

Am not sure I got the massage. Can you explain by examples ?

I thought my English was good :help::help::help:

Consider you have a canvas and some red paint. You fling the paint on the canvas and see big red blotch, and a lot of little blotches. None of these blotches is the same size, there is no uniformity whatsoever in the placement of these blotches, and there is no shape to which they are all conforming. Chaos, yes?

But, consider the paint is all the same color. Its all the same consistency. Its all there for the same reason (you put it there). The canvas itself is all uniform in color and even consists of very precisely laid out threads in nice neat little rows. Order.

It doesn't make a difference which example you use. This is ALWAYS the case. There is ALWAYS order and ALWAYS chaos. Because order and chaos are matters of perception and only exist in our mind.

Thus, the fact that the universe is 'orderly' does not imply that it came from intelligence at all, and only implies that intelligence is observing it (us).

 

[Sabour]

OK, I give up. I'll spell it out for you. Basically, in physics and some other fields, you can think of randomness as referring to situations where the outcome is uncertain.

And now that you have that, you can consult the physics of biology to find out how order can arise through "random" combinations of matter and energy.

Well that definition changed nothing in my arguement, thats the way I see it. We are not certain because we are ignorant about how some variables are changing. But if we studied everthing influencing, we would become certain. Anyways if I am missing something please link me so that I would read more about the subject. Because that is all that I found

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Why ?

I don't know. You'll have to ask God. I'm only telling you what He told me. I think it's because God knows how humans tend to worship words. Sometimes they even come to think that words are 'infallible', which is sure to confuse them.

God doesn't like his creations to be confused.

It is better to worship God than to worship words.

It would be confusing only when people want it to be

Oh, no. The problem is that each scripture-believer interprets the holy words in his own way. But he thinks he's not really interpreting. He thinks that he's just reading God's plain and obvious meaning.

But this is delusion. Words don't mean things. Only people can mean things.

Let us talk about the first three. Because they are prophets who were given miracles.

Really, you're just not listening to me. Haven't I told you that any prophet who claims to do miracles is an untrue prophet? God doesn't do magic. So any prophet who claimed to do Godly magic is confused and mistaken about his own prophethood.

It's why I can't take seriously any of the "prophets" whom I listed.

Let us take the prohpet Muhammad peace be upon him. Can you refute the 99 arrtibutes given in the Quraan about God?

Huh? How could I refute Muhammad's personal opinion about the nature of God? You can't even refute the two attributes of God which I have given you so far:

1) God does not send down actual words to mankind.

2) God does not do miracles, either directly or through his prophets.

Can you refute either of these attributes which I offer about God?

Why is the reason?

If you ask God with a pure and honest heart, He will tell you.

Prove it with a miracle

If I did that, it would prove that I am an untrue prophet. God doesn't do miracles... remember?

Okay. In that sense can you just list me the reasons why you don't believe that scriptures are required ?

Scriptures are prohibited. It's not that we don't need them. We need not to have them.

People begin to worship words and they lose sight of the God Search. That's not good.

 

[Sabour]

because you so happy about it you want to share.

I am happy about it. But the reason I am sharing it because it is part of my duty as a muslim. It is mentioned in the Quraan.

Sahih International
And let there be [arising] from you a nation inviting to [all that is] good, enjoining what is right and forbidding what is wrong, and those will be the successful.

However there is no compulsion in religion
There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

By multiple choice you are referring to the different scriptures ?

Different scriptures, different options in just about any decision, different philosophies, different walks of life, different perspectives on right and wrong, different culture....

 

[Ingledsva]

Plate tectonics is wrong?


ING - Good grief! Go back and read what I actually said. No! Plate tectonics is not wrong, - your idea about mountains pegging is wrong. The plates are always moving.



No, most of your refutes don't make any sense. You said that some are not miracles for that they were already known. OKay that may be true for some of them. But at least they are not scientific errors. There are still many scientific miracles.

NO! The Qur'an verses that you quoted as being scientific and having specific meanings, were actually wrong, and did not have the meanings you attributed to them!


*

 

[zenzero]

Friend One-answer,

Why I think there is one right religion

Guess you are a man of One Answer; you give no choice.
Take it or leave it!

Well suppose wanted to take it, how and what does your God do to lure me to his fold?

Love & rgds

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Let us start by your question who created God.

If someone created God, then he is not God,for God doesn't need anyone to create him because he is the creator.

God doesn't need something to create the universe from. He just says be, and it is. But God makes order for everything so that we can reason, study, and deduce how things go around.

We can't know all the answers to our questions for God only shows us what we have to know in order to pass the test of this life.

I didn't mean to ignore the question but I thought that you got the answer when I told you about chapter 112
Say, "He is Allah , [who is] One,
Allah , the Eternal Refuge.
He neither begets nor is born,
Nor is there to Him any equivalent."

So God is not created. If God was created, this would not make him God.

Then why cannot the universe have this attribute? Why does the universe "need" to be created? Why would the mulitverse (if it exists)?

Natural laws don't just come. They require intelligence.

Why do you think so? Do you have evidence that a natural law was created by an intelligent force? All evidence shows that it is inherent.

1-The argument is that although we know how to make a boat, we can't accept the fact that it can be made without a man taking the time to go with the process of making it. So even though the process is there (natural laws, or big bang theory), men are the ones who are making the process (creator). Processes can't be done alone.

False. We know that the process of making a boat requires "X" where "X" is man made. We know evolution for example requires "X" where "X" is natural selection. We would have been equally confused and surprised if dogs started growing on trees.

We don't know what the process of creating the universe would have taken.

2- Regardless if evolution were right or wrong, evolution fails to say how life began on earth. It just assumes a starting point to the process. It doesn't start from 0, it starts from 1. Now where did 1 come from?

Evolution doesn't actually touch on this at all. Its not a fault in the theory it simply is not something it covers. It also doesn't cover electrical engineering.

But another scientific theory that has gained a lot of evidence has been a-biogensis.

3-I like your example. Processes,laws,physics and science because as we established, all these are controlled by someone. The process of making a boat is known, but it takes a man to come and make it.

Yet you miss the point. How about rain then? I think I mentioned that earlier. The water cycle isn't controlled by anyone but moves like clockwork in a perfect cycle that functions because of natural events.

About that, I don't want to repeat myself.

But evolution and multiverse theories don't solve the problem. For example evolution states that men came from apes so God didn't create men. But where did apes come from and who created them.

The multiverse (or meta-universe) is the hypothetical set of infinite or finite possible universes. Even this theory doesn't say that universe is infinite.

I don't think anyone can have a full answer to how the universe was created. Because no matter how much you learn, you will always have the question who created that and from where it came. Even if all the information was presented to you, you will still come to the point where something existed from nothing.

If you were presented with all the information in the world, and still say that God doesn't exist, you will still be in a problem.

God doesn't need "something" to create what he wants to create, because he creates whatever he wants from "nothing". He just says be, and it is. He is one, he doesn't require a creator, he's the only one in control.

This definition comes from the necessity of logic.

Not being able to know or not knowing doesn't logically follow to god. It logically follows to nothing. We don't assume to know exactly how it happened. Is it possible god made it? We don't know. But to assume that god is a logical necessity is nothing more than an argument from ignorance.

You don't know. You have taken a totally unknown and ill defined

Let us first solve the problem of existence of God. Agree ?

We more than likely will never "solve" that problem. And the point of the thread was for you to convince us that there was in fact but one god and one religion and subsequently you thought there was ample evidence to suggest that the god in question was in fact Allah and his religion was Islam.

 

[Sabour]

Then why cannot the universe have this attribute? Why does the universe "need" to be created? Why would the mulitverse (if it exists)?

Because our universe had a start point. why would our universe have a start point and other universe not? You will hit me with the multiverse theory again so we will be going over and over again.

Why do you think so? Do you have evidence that a natural law was created by an intelligent force? All evidence shows that it is inherent.

Through the example I gave about the rocks.

False. We know that the process of making a boat requires "X" where "X" is man made. We know evolution for example requires "X" where "X" is natural selection. We would have been equally confused and surprised if dogs started growing on trees.

When I was talking about the process I meant the motion of universe and how everything is having its course.

We don't know what the process of creating the universe would have taken.

I think we will never know that.

Evolution doesn't actually touch on this at all. Its not a fault in the theory it simply is not something it covers. It also doesn't cover electrical engineering.

But another scientific theory that has gained a lot of evidence has been a-biogensis.

Yet you miss the point. How about rain then? I think I mentioned that earlier. The water cycle isn't controlled by anyone but moves like clockwork in a perfect cycle that functions because of natural events.

30:48 It is Allah who sends the winds, and they stir the clouds and spread them in the sky however He wills, and He makes them fragments so you see the rain emerge from within them. And when He causes it to fall upon whom He wills of His servants, immediately they rejoice

FIRST STAGE: "It is Allah Who sends the winds..."

Countless air bubbles formed by the foaming of the oceans continuously burst and cause water particles to be ejected towards the sky. These particles, which are rich in salt, are then carried away by winds and rise upward in the atmosphere. These particles, which are called aerosols, function as water traps, and form cloud drops by collecting around the water vapour themselves, which rises from the seas as tiny droplets.

SECOND STAGE: ".... which stir up clouds which He spreads about the sky however He wills. He forms them into dark clumps..."

The clouds are formed from water vapour that condenses around the salt crystals or dust particles in the air. Because the water droplets in these clouds are very small (with a diameter between 0.01 and 0.02 mm), the clouds are suspended in the air, and spread across the sky. Thus, the sky is covered in clouds.


The above illustration shows the water droplets being released into the air. This is the first stage in the formation of rain. After that, the water droplets in the newly formed clouds will be suspended in the air and then condense to form rain. All of these stages are related in the Qur'an.



THIRD STAGE: "…and you see the rain come pouring out from the middle of them"

The water particles that surround salt crystals and dust particles thicken and form raindrops, so, drops that become heavier than the air leave the clouds and start to fall to the ground as rain.

As already discussed, every stage in the formation of rain is related in the verses of the Qur'an. Furthermore, these stages are explained in exactly the right sequence. Just as with many other natural phenomena on the Earth, Allah gave the most correct explanation of this phenomenon, and made it known in the Qur'an centuries before it was discovered.
In another verse, the following information is given about the formation of rain:

Have you not seen how Allah drives along the clouds, then joins them together, then makes them into a stack, and then you see the rain come out of it? And He sends down from the sky mountain masses [of clouds] with cold hail in them, striking with it anyone He wills and averting it from anyone He wills. The brightness of His lightning almost blinds the sight. (Qur'an, 24:43)

Scientists studying cloud types came across surprising results with regards to the formation of rain clouds. Rain clouds are formed and shaped according to definite systems and stages. The stages of formation of one kind of rain cloud, cumulonimbus, are these:
1. STAGE, Being driven along: Clouds are carried along, that is, they are driven along, by the wind.


(A) Isolated small pieces of clouds (cumulonimbus clouds)
(B) When the small clouds join together, updrafts within the larger cloud increase. As a result, the cloud is stacked up.
2. STAGE, Joining: Then, small clouds (cumulonimbus clouds) driven along by the wind join together, forming a larger cloud.55

3. STAGE, Stacking: When the small clouds join together, updrafts within the larger cloud increase. The updrafts near the centre of the cloud are stronger than those near the edges. These updrafts cause the cloud body to grow vertically, so the cloud is stacked up. This vertical growth causes the cloud body to stretch into cooler regions of the atmosphere, where drops of water and hail formulate and begin to grow larger and larger. When these drops of water and hail become too heavy for the updrafts to support them, they begin to fall from the cloud as rain, hail, etc.56

We must remember that meteorologists have only recently come to know these details about cloud formation, structure and function, by using advanced equipment like planes, satellites, computers etc. It is evident that Allah has provided us information that could not have been known 1,400 years ago.

We more than likely will never "solve" that problem. And the point of the thread was for you to convince us that there was in fact but one god and one religion and subsequently you thought there was ample evidence to suggest that the god in question was in fact Allah and his religion was Islam.

Okay so what do you think about the verses that I referred before as scientific signs or miracles. If God is the creator, Quraan is the word of God and Islam is the true religion, than Quraan should have no errors and these scientific signs must be true