Why I think there is one right religion

[Sabour]

This is a debate forum - I'm not going to stop countering your erroneous claims. Nor, I suspect, are any of the others.




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I understand that and I have no problem. The problem is in the way conducting it.

 

[Sabour]

Really, you don't know what you are talking about. Try reading about language a bit. Investigate.

I appreciate the advice. And I like having advice always.

But I do have an idea what I am talking about. The language is the same it hasn't changed. The only fact that changed is that we know much less about it. I am better in English 10 times Arabic.

I've studied language all my life, including linguistics at university. If you really believe that Arabic hasn't changed, you just have never looked into it.

Sure there will be some additions because of scientific advances. But words meaning didn't change anytime. If a word means something, it didn't change over time. But there is a rare case which I believe you have it in your mind which I will adress.

Don't believe everything your parents and culture tell you. God can't want that.

It was self initiated not parent lead. When one is on the right path, he knows it by feeling.

I still remember before I came a practicing muslim, I was racist,moody,depressed person, and one who never smiles. I never felt at comfort and I was always objecting to everything. I was at lost.

Now I am at peace, my mind is clear. I can see clearly. I am at peace. And guess what, I am smiling all the time. I learned how to tolerate others. I know that I will be accountable for all my actions and God is watching us all the times.

Now about that which I said I would adress, I think you have in mind this verse:

4:40 Indeed, Allah does not do injustice, [even] as much as an atom's weight; while if there is a good deed, He multiplies it and gives from Himself a great rew

How can an atom be mentioned back there?

There are two explanations:

1- One opinion says that the theory of the atom dates back to 400 B.C.


2-If that was false, the word atom is translated from the word ذرةٍ.

ذرةٍ also means in Arabic "as a weight of a tiny ant" and some say it also meant "the smallest part in a Component"

So atom was fit in the describing of the ذرةٍ.

So did muslims associate the word atom to ذرةٍ do to make the Quraan say that it talked about atom? The answer is No

10:61 And, [O Muhammad], you are not [engaged] in any matter or recite any of the Qur'an and you [people] do not do any deed except that We are witness over you when you are involved in it. And not absent from your Lord is any [part] of an atom's weight within the earth or within the heaven or [anything] smaller than that or greater but that it is in a clear register.

This verse suggests that there is something smaller than the atom. At that time, all scientists thought the atom was the smallest part and there is nothing smaller. So if muslims were that smart to make the Quraan talk about the atom, they will also be smart to take this into consideration.


Furthermore, there are many books for explaining the Quraan. The most reliable books are

tafseer Al Tabbari, He died around year 900
tafseer Ibn Kathir, Ibn kathir died at around year 1370
tafseer al Kortobi, He died around 1300
Tafseer Al Jalalayn, They two who worked on it died around 1500

 

[Sabour]

Well it's 38 pages long so I'll have to look tomorrow, I'm going to bed soon.

But as there being one right religion, I don't know. At least many got some parts of what most would consider good behaviour. I don't know if one has the full package so to speak. I don't think it's an Abrahamic religion though but that's my opinion. Whatever works for you.

But I don't think you need religion to be good. Develop a lot of empathy and kindness. Think before acting. Golden rule... All of these can be done regardless of believing or not.

I meant the remaining part of the OP But if you're willing to read the whole thread than why not... Although it gets confusing at some parts cause I was answering more than one person

 

[illykitty]

I meant the remaining part of the OP But if you're willing to read the whole thread than why not... Although it gets confusing at some parts cause I was answering more than one person

Then I suppose I sort of did answer it unless I'm really misunderstanding the question... One destination, many paths, in my opinion. Although some paths might take you there quicker.

Many people have similar ethics, although very different worship, rituals and steps to achieve bliss. They use what is most useful for them, depending on their personality. Edit: Even if someone doesn't worship, at least in the most commonly defined way, isn't helping others and self sacrifice a form of worship? That person might not even believe in a god, but they could be the most saintly person. Just speculating.

I hope this answers it, unless I misunderstood... Then it would need to be explained to me, what you meant.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Sure there will be some additions because of scientific advances. But words meaning didn't change anytime. If a word means something, it didn't change over time.

I hope that you get an opportunity to study language before you leave college... and the history of Arabic in particular.

 

[Sabour]

I hope that you get an opportunity to study language before you leave college... and the history of Arabic in particular.

This can't be done at the current time. I have already started considering what's next to learn after I finish college. Besides working ofcourse.

 

[Sabour]

Then I suppose I sort of did answer it unless I'm really misunderstanding the question... One destination, many paths, in my opinion. Although some paths might take you there quicker.

Many people have similar ethics, although very different worship, rituals and steps to achieve bliss. They use what is most useful for them, depending on their personality. Edit: Even if someone doesn't worship, at least in the most commonly defined way, isn't helping others and self sacrifice a form of worship? That person might not even believe in a god, but they could be the most saintly person. Just speculating.

I hope this answers it, unless I misunderstood... Then it would need to be explained to me, what you meant.

My main question was do you believe that God told us the way we are supposed to live our life? In other words do you believe there is one true religion ?

 

[illykitty]

My main question was do you believe that God told us the way we are supposed to live our life? In other words do you believe there is one true religion ?

Okay then I have answered... Perhaps not what you'd like to hear. I didn't answer in yes or no because I feel the questions are more complicated than that.

 

[Sabour]

Okay then I have answered... Perhaps not what you'd like to hear. I didn't answer in yes or no because I feel the questions are more complicated than that.

Sorry didn't notice.


Anyways does that mean that you are open for discussion or this is where you will stand about the subject ?

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

Druidism?

Perhaps

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

"My main question was do you believe that God told us the way we are supposed to live our life? In other words do you believe there is one true religion ?"

What if an individual can live their life as they are supposed to without instructruction ,promise or fear of God .Such an individual would be a greater asset to heaven ? Allah would reject such an individual based on belief .
The way we are supposed to ? How are we supposed to . The requirement is ? .
My friend the requirement can only ever be : Respect the creation no more no less.
Physical worship or prayer is not a requirement , God/Allah would be one and the same should it exist.
Life itself you think the trade off is fair ? The creation is an efficient machine ?
Allah/God has the right to create without our consent ? Humans are the most precious commodity in the known universe ? The ability to feel an ouch ? , you know where i was before mortality,was not a bad place .
4.5 billion years of suffering and taking without consent and you worship it ? wow hoping to witness an eternity of suffering and taking without consent ? Willing to turn a blind eye to all of this on the promise of a personal gain in the name of belief.
My friend i put it to you that none of the religions are the right one .

 

[Sabour]

"My main question was do you believe that God told us the way we are supposed to live our life? In other words do you believe there is one true religion ?"

Yes.

What if an individual can live their life as they are supposed to without instructruction ,promise or fear of God .Such an individual would be a greater asset to heaven ? Allah would reject such an individual based on belief .
The way we are supposed to ? How are we supposed to . The requirement is ? .

It doesn't cross my mind that God sent us to live in this earth without a reason.

Let's imagine that there is a way of life that God gave to us.

The reason you have Promise and Fear is that every one gets motivated by a different way. There are promises and sometimes fear.

It is not just about belief, it is about belief and reasoning. If God wanted things to work by belief, than he would have replaced our mind with more faith.

Faith and reasoning move in one direction.

How can you find the true religion? It must be that religion which answers all your questions, LOGICALLY.

My friend the requirement can only ever be : Respect the creation no more no less.
Physical worship or prayer is not a requirement , God/Allah would be one and the same should it exist.
Life itself you think the trade off is fair ? The creation is an efficient machine ?

Nope its not about the creation only. I guess your basic question is why would one worship? God doesn't need it.

Yes that is right. God is already the Greatest. Whether you say that 1000 times or you don't say it at all, it won't make any difference to God. It benefits you. Because the human psychology says that when you talk good about someone, you are more likely to be influenced by him and his ideas.
Similarly, when you worship God, you are more likely to follow the commandments and you will start feeling peace with yourself. Because this is how you are actually born
" Dr Justin Barrett, a senior researcher at the University of Oxford's Centre for Anthropology and Mind, claims that young people have a predisposition to believe in a supreme being because they assume that everything in the world was created with a purpose.
He says that young children have faith even when they have not been taught about it by family or at school, and argues that even those raised alone on a desert island would come to believe in God.
"The preponderance of scientific evidence for the past 10 years or so has shown that a lot more seems to be built into the natural development of children's minds than we once thought, including a predisposition to see the natural world as designed and purposeful and that some kind of intelligent being is behind that purpose," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
"If we threw a handful on an island and they raised themselves I think they would believe in God."
In a lecture to be given at the University of Cambridge's Faraday Institute on Tuesday, Dr Barrett will cite psychological experiments carried out on children that he says show they instinctively believe that almost everything has been designed with a specific purpose."

Allah/God has the right to create without our consent ?

A scholar in Islam said that God asked us before we were born if we wanted to be angels or humans. Angels don't disobey God because that is how they were created. While humans have freewill. However Angels don't go to heaven while humans can. That's why we chose to be human.

I didn't look at the facts in the Quraan or in the Hadith to prove or disprove this, but it might be true.

Personally I don't look to have an answer towards these kinds of question. Because God created us and I don't question why or "there was a better option" because God is the all knowing.

This is the part were I say I have to believe and I don't look towards reasons. Please note that I don't do this all the time. I only do this when it is about Why God did that.

Humans are the most precious commodity in the known universe ? The ability to feel an ouch ? , you know where i was before mortality,was not a bad place .

It is God that made us the most precious commodity.

17:70 And We have certainly honored the children of Adam and carried them on the land and sea and provided for them of the good things and preferred them over much of what We have created, with [definite] preference.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

How can you find the true religion? It must be that religion which answers all your questions, LOGICALLY.

That's true. And only my religion does that.

 

[cocokorina]

I have talked with a lot of non muslims. None of which ever said that Quraan is not the same 1400 years ago.

Look clearly you think I am crazy. SO do me and yourself a favor and stop commenting.

If you have any question I will be more than happy to answer. But questions. Questions put in a proper way.

I hope you understand

Let's say quran is unchanged. But why so many different interpretation of it? Taliban use the same quran yet many Muslims disagree with them. Having unchanged quran is no miracle, a miracle would have been if all Muslims had same or atleast similar interpretation . One quran yet so many sects? One sect calls the other sect non muslim based on certain differences. In Pakistani, Ahmadi Muslims for example are not even considered Muslims! My point is quran failed to even produce one version of religion. I would expect t better from divine scripture

 

[Sabour]

That's true. And only my religion does that.

Well from one saying that a religion must answer everything logically then I too believe my religion does that

 

[Sabour]

Let's say quran is unchanged. But why so many different interpretation of it? Taliban use the same quran yet many Muslims disagree with them. Having unchanged quran is no miracle, a miracle would have been if all Muslims had same or atleast similar interpretation . One quran yet so many sects? One sect calls the other sect non muslim based on certain differences. In Pakistani, Ahmadi Muslims for example are not even considered Muslims! My point is quran failed to even produce one version of religion. I would expect t better from divine scripture

In a logical sense, if you want a miracle of making the same interpretation for all the Quraan, that means all people that will be born muslims will be fed the truth directly, while the non muslims born have to search for the truth and struggle to find it would that be just ? Why making the miracle of having the same interpretation for muslims and leave the non muslims without a miracle?

Besides, look at the bible. Every Christian is a unique case. Everyone has different set of beliefs. But they all believe in the bible.

If I write this sentence: You should be good with each other. You all should love each other.

It is clear what I mean, no? Still you will find ten people make me say that I meant by "love" "sexual relations". Why ? Because this is their desire. Imagine what they made me say in one sentence, now imagine what they can make me say when I write a book.

Difference in interpretations can be for different reasons.

Some may do it on purpose because they love corruption.
Some make it out of ignorance.
Some choose to focus on one point.

Remember that we are all under the test. Being born to a muslim family doesn't mean that you will automatically have everything correct and will have a free ticket to paradise. This would be unjust to those born in a non muslim family.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Well from one saying that a religion must answer everything logically then I too believe my religion does that

So my religion is the one right religion, and your religion is also the one right religion?

 

[cocokorina]

In a logical sense, if you want a miracle of making the same interpretation for all the Quraan, that means all people that will be born muslims will be fed the truth directly, while the non muslims born have to search for the truth and struggle to find it would that be just ? Why making the miracle of having the same interpretation for muslims and leave the non muslims without a miracle?

Besides, look at the bible. Every Christian is a unique case. Everyone has different set of beliefs. But they all believe in the bible.

If I write this sentence: You should be good with each other. You all should love each other.

It is clear what I mean, no? Still you will find ten people make me say that I meant by "love" "sexual relations". Why ? Because this is their desire. Imagine what they made me say in one sentence, now imagine what they can make me say when I write a book.

Difference in interpretations can be for different reasons.

Some may do it on purpose because they love corruption.
Some make it out of ignorance.
Some choose to focus on one point.

Remember that we are all under the test. Being born to a muslim family doesn't mean that you will automatically have everything correct and will have a free ticket to paradise. This would be unjust to those born in a non muslim family.

so if you agree that humans are prone to alter the interpretation and see things differently, there can never be one islam? Shortly after prophet Mohammad's death , Shias and Sunnis became 2 sects. Even within Sunnis and Shias there's different groups. If Muslims aren't even able to agree on so many things, how can u expect all humanity to understand and accept islam? How can one religion fit all when you yourself just admitted that people are prone to making their own interpretation out of ignorance or lack of understanding? How can one religion be the truth when humans think so differently from each other

 

[Sabour]

so if you agree that humans are prone to alter the interpretation and see things differently, there can never be one islam? Shortly after prophet Mohammad's death , Shias and Sunnis became 2 sects. Even within Sunnis and Shias there's different groups. If Muslims aren't even able to agree on so many things, how can u expect all humanity to understand and accept islam? How can one religion fit all when you yourself just admitted that people are prone to making their own interpretation out of ignorance or lack of understanding? How can one religion be the truth when humans think so differently from each other

That is why the Quraan is kept unchanged. Quraan is the word of God revealed to our prophet Muhammad peace be up on him.

You want to know who are right? Compare the actions to that of what Quraan tells us. You can easily find who is actually on the right side and who is not.

Different groups have minor differences in the aspects of "where to put the hand while praying" or " difference in opinions if a certain act is Sunna or not". They are minor things which doesn't mean that anyone of them is non muslim.

Yeah I said Islam fits all. I didn't say that everyone who is labelled "muslim" is a Muslim. It is not about labels.

The ignorance and lack of understanding is because of their own hands. Quraan clearly says in a verse that if you don't know as the people of knowledge who studied Islam( if you don't know the verse tell me so I can find it for you). So a lack of understanding or ignorance doesn't mean the fault is in the Quraan.

For your last question, it is easy. Sometime you know that driving in a high speed is dangerous... But you do it for fun.

 

[cocokorina]

Also you mentioned muslim will not goto heaven just because they are muslim. True. But will a good atheist, Hindu, Christian, or a Jew who do not believe in Mohammad being a prophet even after hearing about islam go to hell? Also, is it true that muslim will eventually goto heaven after doing their time in hell but the non-believers will remain in hell for eternity ?