why is being gay forbidden ?

[Job]

BULL! As we have explained over and over, - there is no condemning of homosexuals in the Bible. The verses you folks keep quoting are actually about Sacred Sex - which is idolatry - and thus worthy of death.*

Your trying to argue that that specific verse in the Old Testament is just about a "man sleeping next to another man without being married" means they should be executed? And if they would be married its okay?

 

[Ingledsva]

Gosh golly ding dang do, it's always such a joy to read a debate where people talk about whether or not you are worthy of being executed. As an actual debate. And using scripture as evidence.

Just warms the heart, y'all.

I know! Their way of thinking is just SAD!

*

 

[sojourner]

Isn't the sin ' fornication ' ?_______ The English word fornication comes from the Greek word ' porneia ' would is more comprehensive in meaning than the English word fornication. Porneia is where we get the words porn and pornography. Porneia also covers having sex with an animal as wrong. So, according to Scripture anyone Not in a ' scriptural marriage ' is to refrain from fornication (porneia ).

Scriptural marriage? You mean like, multiple wives, multiple concubines, having to marry one's rapist? Having an arranged marriage before one is an adult? I could go on -- all of those are "biblical marriage."

 

[Ingledsva]

Your trying to argue that that specific verse in the Old Testament is just about a "man sleeping next to another man without being married" means they should be executed? And if they would be married its okay?

NO!

I'm saying there is actually no such text.

The texts you folks try to use, are actually condemning Sacred Sex, not homosexuals.

*

 

[sojourner]

The temple records - 1st nine chapters of 1st Chronicles - names Adam as a real person.

Chronicles isn't history, either. It's story.

 

[Job]

NO!

I'm saying there is actually no such text.

The texts you folks try to use, are actually condemning Sacred Sex, not homosexuals.

*

What do you mean with "sacred sex"? Care to explain?

The Old Testament is clear that it condemns homosexuals to have sex with the same sex. You could argue a marriage between two men in love with each other does not necessarily mean they will have sex but that is a bit silly to say the least isnt it?

• ‘You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." (NASB)
• "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them." (NASB)

 

[jeager106]

Because of later misunderstanding of the scriptures.

There is no condemnation of homosexuals in Tanakh, - only of Sacred Sex acts.

Only later groups try to translate them as being about homosexuals.

Later Jewish and Christian contact with pagan groups changed some of their ideas, and of course Islam includes both Jewish and Christian texts.

*

Great reply. Even I "get it".
The world of Islam seems to be about 900 years late in maturing past murdering "sinners".
(NO OFFENSE MEANT TOWARDS ANY MUSLIM)
You are an Alaskan Heathen are ya?
I've been reading you and find no heathen.
I find only the honest truth as you see the truth.
I should add that I have zero, nadda, nuttin' against homosexuals.
IF being such is a "sin" a crime against God's authority then God will deal with such.
It's not my place to sit in judgement over matters of that nature.
Homosexuals are not baby molesters as some fundamentalists would have us believe.

 

[Ingledsva]

What do you mean with "sacred sex"? Care to explain?

The Old Testament is clear that it condemns homosexuals to have sex with the same sex. You could argue a marriage between two men in love with each other does not necessarily mean they will have sex but that is a bit silly to say the least isnt it?

• ‘You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." (NASB)
• "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them." (NASB)

The Jewish people were starting to have Sacred Sex with the Qadeshah, and Qadesh, in Sacred worship to Moloch.

The verses people try to use against homosexuals - are actually about Sacred SEX.

For instance Eli’s sons with the Temple Prostitutes at Shiloh.

1 Sa 2:22 Now Eli was very old, and heard all that his sons did unto Israel; and how they had sex with the women that waited at the entrance of the Tabernacle of the congregation.

Lev 20:2 Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Moloch; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.

Lev 20:3 And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Moloch, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name.

Lev 20:4 And if the people of the land do any ways hide their eyes from the man, when he giveth of his seed unto Moloch, and kill him not:

Lev 20:5 Then I will set my face against that man, and against his family, and will cut him off, and all that go a whoring after him, to commit whoredom with Moloch, from among their people.
*

there is no AS WITH A (WOMAN) in 22.

Lev 18:21 as for Thy seed/semen don't give in sex/copulation to Moloch (abar is also to cover, copulate,) don't profane the name of Elohiym; I am YHVH.

The next line is usually started - and with man don't - however the word also means - and for man, don't. And there is NO - "as with a."

Lev 18:22 and for man, don't lie down (for sex) in the beds of the women, Idolatrous is he.

The next line continues on with the things we know they did in Moloch worship.

Lev 18:23 And you shall not give your semen with any animal, for uncleanness with it. And a woman shall not stand before an animal to lie down with it; it is a shameful mixing.

With either translation of 22 - it is still talking about the Qadesh - Sacred Prostitutes of Moloch.

Lev 18:30 Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God.

That word translated "customs" is chuqqah - STATUTES/LAWS/RITES. Homosexuality is not a law or rite, but Sacred Sex to Moloch was.
*

Lev 22 - again no "as with a." and 854 can be translated commemorative - as in Sacred Sex.

Lev. 20:13 If (834) Man (376) lies down (7901) for (854) commemorative (2145) sex/intercourse (4904) woman (802) both (8147) commit (6213) Idolatrous custom/abomination (8441) (worthy of) death (4192) (worthy of) death (4192) bloodshed (1818)

*

 

[sojourner]

The Old Testament is clear that it condemns homosexuals to have sex with the same sex.

No it's not. It's clear that it condemns men having sex with other. It says nothing about homosexuals.

 

[Akingu]

In alot of the major religions being gay is a sin. Now , this makes zero sense to me , because first off there is no reason and second gays are born that way , so did God create them just so they can burn in hell ? I have heard the reason is that gay sex spreads Diseases , but so does heterosexual sex. So why do you punish people for the way they were born ?

Being gay is a choice. There are no gay animals as Nature abhors those who cannot procreate. Man or woman, chooses that degenerate lifestyle despite all reasonable warnings to the danger it invokes.
It's not just religious people who find the homosexual lifestyle abhorrent and undesirable.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

It's not just religious people who find the homosexual lifestyle abhorrent and undesirable.

Sadly that's true, discrimination and bigotry isn't just a religious phenomena. But religious homophobia is particularly distasteful because it uses ancient religious texts to condone the bigotry.

 

[McBell]

Being gay is a choice.

Bold empty claim.

There are no gay animals...

Flat out wrong.

as Nature abhors those who cannot procreate.

Bold empty claim.

Man or woman, chooses that degenerate lifestyle despite all reasonable warnings to the danger it invokes.

Bold empty claim.

It's not just religious people who find the homosexual lifestyle abhorrent and undesirable.

How do you expect anyone to take you seriously?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Religious homophobia can keep gays in the closet, as this educational film shows:

 

[sojourner]

Being gay is a choice. There are no gay animals as Nature abhors those who cannot procreate. Man or woman, chooses that degenerate lifestyle despite all reasonable warnings to the danger it invokes.
It's not just religious people who find the homosexual lifestyle abhorrent and undesirable.

Is being heterosexual a choice? Is there some Fox-News, grey-alien, conspiracy-theory reason why the behavioral sciences community claims that homosexuality is a valid and healthy orientation?

I'll tell you what's a choice: being bigoted against someone who is something that you don't happen to like. That's a "choice."

 

[sojourner]

Sadly that's true, discrimination and bigotry isn't just a religious phenomena. But religious homophobia is particularly distasteful because it uses ancient religious texts to condone the bigotry.

With a caveat: "Uses a misreading of ancient religious texts as the ultimate authority to condone the bigotry."

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Gen 24 says nothing about marriage, or marriage being only between heterosexuals.
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his woman: and they shall be one flesh.
Mat 19 says nothing about - or against homosexuals either!
Jesus is answering a question specifically about heterosexual marriages.
Mat 19:3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for any cause?
*

....and the cause or reason for scriptural divorce is: ' fornication ' according to Matthew 19:9 and 5:32
The reason Jesus used the word fornication instead of adultery is because fornication (porneia ) is more comprehensive in meaning than adultery. Fornication covers anything inside or outside of scriptural marriage between: man cleaving to wife.

Fornicators will Not inherit God's kingdom - 1st Corinthians 6:9

 

[McBell]

....and the cause or reason for scriptural divorce is: ' fornication ' according to Matthew 19:9 and 5:32
The reason Jesus used the word fornication instead of adultery is because fornication (porneia ) is more comprehensive in meaning than adultery. Fornication covers anything inside or outside of scriptural marriage between: man cleaving to wife.

Fornicators will Not inherit God's kingdom - 1st Corinthians 6:9

How does the Bible define fornication?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Scriptural marriage? You mean like, multiple wives, multiple concubines, having to marry one's rapist? Having an arranged marriage before one is an adult? I could go on -- all of those are "biblical marriage."

Thank you for your reply. I should have been more detailed by saying ' Christian marriage ' as defined by Jesus.

Under the temporary Patriarch arrangement to insure that No woman would be without a husband more than one wife was allowed.

The scriptural marriage for today is: the standard that Jesus set for Christians.
Under the Christian arrangement Jesus re-set the standard of Genesis 2:24 at Matthew 19: 5-9
So, I was dealing with the standard Jesus set which would be in effect since Pentecost of the 1st century for Christians

 

[URAVIP2ME]

How does the Bible define fornication?

Basically defined as illicit sex relations outside of or inside of Christian marriage between man and woman.

The English word fornication in Scripture comes from the Greek word ' porneia '
Porneia is also where we get the English words porn or pornography.
Porneia would be wrong between consenting people of the same or opposite sex
Porneia even includes having sex with an animal as wrong.
Promiscuous sex relationships would be fornication inside or outside of Christian marriage.
Gospel writer Luke places fornication (porneia) as classed with idolatry being wrong - Acts 15 vs 20,29; Acts 21:25
Fornication (porneia) is also listed as a work of the flesh at Galatians 5 vs 19-21.
So, No matter a person's sexual attraction: fornication ( porneia ) is scripturally wrong.

 

[sojourner]

Thank you for your reply. I should have been more detailed by saying ' Christian marriage ' as defined by Jesus.

Jesus wouldn't have defined "Christian marriage," since Xy didn't exist at the time. He may have referenced biblical marriage, but that would have simply reflected what I outlined above. You see, naming some as simply "Christian" or "biblical" is dangerous, because neither are perfect or ultimately authoritative for all contexts.

The scriptural marriage for today is: the standard that Jesus set for Christians.
Under the Christian arrangement Jesus re-set the standard of Genesis 2:24 at Matthew 19: 5-9
So, I was dealing with the standard Jesus set which would be in effect since Pentecost of the 1st century for Christians

Jesus is talking about divorce -- not "Christian marriage." The "standard" Jesus is setting here works equally well with either heater or homosexual unions.