Why is homosexuality a sin

[worshiper]

i believe this thread is meant for people of theist. because the question is "why is homosexual a sin?" when we talk about sin, we are talking about a concept in a religion. for an atheist, there is no such thing a sin to begin with. they only have ethics. if the question sounds something like this "Why is homosexual unethical?" then it would make a big difference.

 

[Autodidact]

if you would take some time and READ SOME POST , you would see how the scripture actually " flows" all of the things together in one thought.


but when i flow them together in the same thought, i am some kind of monster.

notice the words in the above post " you seem to think". LOL

Well then, it must be your religion that's the problem, if it can't make the distinction.

 

[Autodidact]

then what made you "honestly believe" that you are an atheist? dont say "i just had it in me" coz what you are right now is what you experience your whole life. then you made your conclusion (choice) to be an atheist. choice choice all the way. people make choices mostly on what fits them. what fits them are influenced by lots of elements. even in the womb, the mother's experience influences the baby. which sets the baby's fundamental belief (i think thats the one you call "deep down inside" thingy)

The idea is that a conclusion is not a choice. If there is no evidence or rational reason to believe something, you can't just decide to believe it anyway--unless you're crazy.

 

[Autodidact]

"homosexuality is genetically predetermined," so what if its predetermined so what? it doesnt mean he doesnt have a choice. temptation differs from person to a person. say for a "predetermined" homosexual, the homosexual temptation is stronger. still he have a choice not to succumb to that temptation. i know quite a number of guys who are attracted to guys but manage to refrain themselves from having sexual intercourse with them. they are in other words "predetermined" homosexuals but they choose not to be. and i know a lot of guys who are not "predetermined" or self-proclaimed straight guys, involved in homosexual intercourse out of curiosity or lust. all of these people have CHOICES

in regards to this thread, a sin is when you "commit" the forbidden. if you have the intention but have yet to commit that sinful intention, then it is not considered as sin. same goes with homosexuality. it is not a sin if you "predeterminedly" homosexual so long as you dont commit homosexual intercourse.

I agree. No one chooses their preference; everyone chooses their behavior. Let us say that homosexuality is 100% genetic. A given homosexual could still choose lifelong celibacy. It's a ridiculous, difficult, unneeded choice, and there is absolutely no rational reason why he or she should, be he or she certainly could, just as a heterosexual could make the same choice. The point is that there is no justification for such a hobbling of human potential and artificial limit on human happiness, when there is nothing morally wrong with homosexual behavior. On the contrary, as it is another way to express love, our highest calling, and harms no one.

 

[Smoke]

if you would take some time and READ SOME POST , you would see how the scripture actually " flows" all of the things together in one thought.

but when i flow them together in the same thought, i am some kind of monster.

Like in the following chapter:

Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times. Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard. Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the Lord. Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.
​

Here we see, according to your Christian ethics, that eating a bloody steak, trimming the corners of your beard, and getting a tattoo are on the same level as prostituting your daughter.

So tell us, since you're fond of quoting from Leviticus to establish ethical rules:
Do you take care not to eat pork or shellfish or catfish? Do you make sure not to wear blended fabrics? Do you allow the forelock of your hair and the corners of your beard to grow naturally? Do you take every seventh year off from work? Do you refuse to accept interest on your bank deposits? If you see a homeless man, do you take him in to live with you?

Do you really follow all the rules of Leviticus yourself, or are you the worst sort of hypocrite, picking and choosing to condemn others, while ignoring the rules yourself?

 

[Autodidact]

How ironic. We live in a country that guarantees each individual "God given" entitlements: Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Yet, it appears that those who have been granted one of the greatest of liberties: the liberty for each to express religious belief as he/she sees fit, do not want to grant others their own pusuit of happiness. Instead, they appear to promote the idea that we all have the guaranteed right to express ourselves exactly the same as they do...or else.

Actually, there is no such guarantee, it's just an aspiration stated in our Declaration of Independence. However, just looking at it practically, if you want to be left alone to live your own life in peace and make your own choices, as long as you're not hurting anyone else, then you should be able to understand that you need to grant the same prerogative to others. There are some Christians, however, you have trouble with this concept.

 

[Autodidact]

i believe this thread is meant for people of theist. because the question is "why is homosexual a sin?" when we talk about sin, we are talking about a concept in a religion. for an atheist, there is no such thing a sin to begin with. they only have ethics. if the question sounds something like this "Why is homosexual unethical?" then it would make a big difference.

Good point. Although an atheist might be familiar enough with the Bible to be able to put on her Christian hat and discuss it from that point of view. In my experience atheists often know that book better than many Christians.

 

[rocka21]

Like in the following chapter:

Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times. Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard. Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the Lord. Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.​

Here we see, according to your Christian ethics, that eating a bloody steak, trimming the corners of your beard, and getting a tattoo are on the same level as prostituting your daughter.

So tell us, since you're fond of quoting from Leviticus to establish ethical rules:
Do you take care not to eat pork or shellfish or catfish? Do you make sure not to wear blended fabrics? Do you allow the forelock of your hair and the corners of your beard to grow naturally? Do you take every seventh year off from work? Do you refuse to accept interest on your bank deposits? If you see a homeless man, do you take him in to live with you?

Do you really follow all the rules of Leviticus yourself, or are you the worst sort of hypocrite, picking and choosing to condemn others, while ignoring the rules yourself?

you are correct. i should of not used leviticus as my only source.:sorry1:

i do believe however that the new testement also " flows" with this belief on homosexuality.

certian topics Jesus and Paul discussed and " have made us free from these laws" but others, they reinterated.

i personally belive that the harmony of the bible supports the stance agaist same sex, but in the end only God can judge.

and in the end, i am only accountable for me and my family. i am by no means " condeming anyone".

 

[worshiper]

The point is that there is no justification for such a hobbling of human potential and artificial limit on human happiness, when there is nothing morally wrong with homosexual behavior. On the contrary, as it is another way to express love, our highest calling, and harms no one.

i noticed you used the word morally. like i said the question of this thread is whether homosexuality is a sin. atheist dont believe in the concept of sin. they rely on morals and ethics. we are not talking about whether homosexual is morally wrong instead whether it is a sin meaning in a point of view of one who has religion or belief in god.

i quote my 1st post in this thread

but who doesn't believe in god, i guess the explanation above is irrelevant.

have a good one

 

[worshiper]

Good point. Although an atheist might be familiar enough with the Bible to be able to put on her Christian hat and discuss it from that point of view. In my experience atheists often know that book better than many Christians.

"In my experience atheists often know that book better than many Christians." then i assume you know for a fact (in the bible) that god clearly forbids homosexual act.

 

[Smoke]

i do believe however that the new testement also " flows" with this belief on homosexuality.

Really? Where in the New Testament is homosexuality equated with incest and bestiality?

 

[Storm]

"In my experience atheists often know that book better than many Christians." then i assume you know for a fact (in the bible) that god clearly forbids homosexual act.

Just like wearing blended fabrics and eating shellfish. Our problem is that you seek to impose those strictures on us while ignoring the ones you don't want to follow.

 

[rocka21]

Really? Where in the New Testament is homosexuality equated with incest and bestiality?

27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another


i never said they were equal, i said they were in the same " vain or flow".

what is the point you are making here? its just a little sin , and incest is a big sin?

here is a shocker for you. ALL SIN IS EQUAL!

but thank God the blood of Jesus covers all sin!:angel2:

 

[Storm]

here is a shocker for you. ALL SIN IS EQUAL!

Then why focus so much on this one? In fact why focus on us at all? Jesus taught that you should work on your own problems and leave us alone. Judge not, lest ye be judged.

 

[rocka21]

Just like wearing blended fabrics and eating shellfish. Our problem is that you seek to impose those strictures on us while ignoring the ones you don't want to follow.

13And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

14But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. 15And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.


38Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.


these are just some examples of the new testement changing the " law".

we are not ignoring, we are not under the "law".

but again, same sex is still. ( see the reinteraion in the new testament ).

 

[MaddLlama]

but thank God the blood of Jesus covers all sin!:angel2:

Mmm...rather reminds me of the Pagan Roman custom of bathing in blood.

 

[McBell]

Just like wearing blended fabrics and eating shellfish. Our problem is that you seek to impose those strictures on us while ignoring the ones you don't want to follow.

It is not the atheists fault that Christians 'pick and choose' which of the 613 OT rules to follow and ignore.

 

[rocka21]

Mmm...rather reminds me of the Pagan Roman custom of bathing in blood.

yes, the cross was very bloody.

it was the sheading of that blood that free's us christians.

 

[McBell]

13And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

14But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. 15And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.


38Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.


these are just some examples of the new testement changing the " law".

we are not ignoring, we are not under the "law".

but again, same sex is still. ( see the reinteraion in the new testament ).

And each and every case of the law being changed is an example of when God changed his mind.

 

[Storm]

these are just some examples of the new testement changing the " law".

we are not ignoring, we are not under the "law".

but again, same sex is still. ( see the reinteraion in the new testament ).

Yes. For believers. The law was never meant for unbelievers, just ask a Jew. Besides, the laws allowing slavery weren't rescinded, but you don't follow them anymore, now do you?