Why is homosexuality a sin

[Nanda]

It's true enough that men often get into trouble putting odd things into their rectums, but you're incredibly naive if you think it's always, or even mostly, gay men. There are plenty of gay men who don't care for anal stimulation (I'm one of them) and plenty of straight men who do.

Quoted for truth!

 

[Smoke]

My dear friend knew he was an outcast, a misfit among the normal life God created for men and women. To God's glory I say that his parents said it was our love for him that kept him going in his life.

My dear friend's lifestyle never increased love for him, but it increased love in us for him; the Christian family who loved him. He was never able to love himself.

He was sad, depressed, and lonely because he could never bring himself to overcome the view of himself that he got from people like you. Not because of what he was. Because of you.

If he had been stronger, he could have overcome those attitudes. Millions of us have done it. Instead, he internalized the contempt you had for him, and misconstrued your pity as love. It's not his fault he was sad, depressed, and lonely, and it's not the result of what he was. It's your fault.

It was your attitudes and beliefs that made him so sure he was an outcast and a misfit. You couldn't see past your own prejudices to understand the beauty and value in what he was. You made him a misfit, and then you patted yourselves on the back for pitying him.

That's not love. It's not even basic human decency.

 

[Crowley]

thank you for sharing this story. What I get is that you knew one very nice homosexual who was not happy, probably because society and the church rejected him, is that right?

He rejected himself because he knew the Bible commandment about it. The people in his church saw him as hopeless and lost, a degenerate beyond redemption. They rejected him because they were self-righteous hypocrites. End of that story. He was educated and held a respectable job. He was very effeminate. But we knew that Jesus Christ loved him, died for him and wanted to save him. In the end, God saved his soul and he died.

1. Quite possibly had he been accepted by society, the church and himself he would have been quite happy.

No because the church will never accept that. He didn't accept it, he never liked being homosexual, he said so plainly. He wished he could have had a normal life. He actually was a captive to it he said. It was something he said was actually him.

2. I am a homosexual. I am quite a happy, productive, fulfilled person. While my life has its bumps, overall it's a good one, and I am satisfied with it and myself. I can attest to the fact that by living in integrity and loving and being loved, a homsexual person can be both happy and a positive contribution to society.

I know that it is a sin and nothing can move me from that. I do not judge you, I am not your judge, but I am for God and what he said about it.

3. Your friend was one, and I am one. Not a good idea to generalize much from a single example.[/color]

My dear friend was born that way as told me by reliable sources. He never once liked girls. I have my own understanding of what homosexuality is from my study of the Bible.

That is sad. It's hard to be happy when you hate yourself. We should encourage all people to love themselves as they are, or, for a theist like yourself, as God made them.

Shall we say that God made Jeffrey Dahmer and others like him as God's creation for the purpose to commit murder, homosexuality and cannibalism? No, these things are acts of hatred influenced by demonic spirits. The mind is a complicated thing, the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked as the prophet Jeremiah said. The Bible doesn't leave us in the dark about these things. Homosexuality is not a choice, but it is a choice to obey God or not obey God. Jeffrey Dahmer had no choice in who he was, but he did have a choice to choose Christ who would have saved him from who he was. But he didn't. He chose to sin.

Arrogant much? Nice of you to drop down from heaven for a moment to fill us in on what is right and what is wrong. How about if we argue it out, and let the lurkers decide for themselves whose understanding is right? I'm fine with going there, but it may be enough of a derail to justify a new thread--up to you.

Didn't mean to be arrogant but I take the Bible as it is written. The Torah is all we need to guide us and the NT teachers never moved from it. Yes, we could start a new thread, it would be very interesting.

How about my key point, that there is an important moral distinction between loving and murdering?

Please be a little more specific. Murdering involves more than meets the eye as does love. Murdering is related to hate, envy and all those bad things and the Bible not once recognizes lust as love, it only recognizes the love of God, so it is involved.

 

[jrnmz]

Leviticus is not the only scripture that shows that homosexuality is something detestable to god. Look up Romans. 1:27 which says "and likewise even the males left the natural use of the female and became violently enflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is OSCENE and recieving in themselves the full recompense which was due for their ERROR."

Also look at Colossians 3:5,6 which states " Deaden, therefore, your body members that upon the earth as respects fornication, uncleanness,sexual appetite, hurtful desire, and coveteousness, which is idolatry. On account of these things the WRATH OF GOD IS COMING." So if God tells us that these things would occur and that the wrath of god is coming for those who practice fornication and uncleanness, dont you think homosexuality would fall into that category? Soemthing to think about.

 

[Autodidact]

No because the church will never accept that. He didn't accept it, he never liked being homosexual, he said so plainly. He wished he could have had a normal life. He actually was a captive to it he said. It was something he said was actually him.

Actually, some churches do. In fact, there is an entire gay church, the Metropolitan Community Church.

I know that it is a sin and nothing can move me from that. I do not judge you, I am not your judge, but I am for God and what he said about it.

That's not my point. My point is that I'm happy.

Shall we say that God made Jeffrey Dahmer and others like him as God's creation for the purpose to commit murder, homosexuality and cannibalism? No, these things are acts of hatred influenced by demonic spirits. The mind is a complicated thing, the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked as the prophet Jeremiah said. The Bible doesn't leave us in the dark about these things. Homosexuality is not a choice, but it is a choice to obey God or not obey God. Jeffrey Dahmer had no choice in who he was, but he did have a choice to choose Christ who would have saved him from who he was. But he didn't. He chose to sin.

Can't see the difference between a serial killer and a gay person?

Didn't mean to be arrogant but I take the Bible as it is written. The Torah is all we need to guide us and the NT teachers never moved from it. Yes, we could start a new thread, it would be very interesting.[/quote] Go for it. I also take the Bible as it is written. I predict that you will be asking for interpretation and context, not me.

Please be a little more specific. Murdering involves more than meets the eye as does love. Murdering is related to hate, envy and all those bad things and the Bible not once recognizes lust as love, it only recognizes the love of God, so it is involved.

I was referring to your equating murder and homosexuality as being equally sinful. Maybe you could be more specific?

 

[Napoleon]

Homosexuality is a sin and an abomination to God.

Homosexuality is never referred to as an "abomination". To assert otherwise is to have 0 understanding of classical Hebrew and 0 understanding of the context in which the laws were written.

Paul never contradicted Jesus and his teachings were in keeping with the Torah.

Riiight. And I suppose you're going to assert that Jesus felt the same way about women even though one of his closest friends and confidants was a woman and even though he charged said woman with the task of carrying on his legacy.

 

[Crowley]

"I was referring to your equating murder and homosexuality as being equally sinful. Maybe you could be more specific?"

The Bible places them together along with other death producing acts. Whom shall he teach knowledge? And whom shall he make to understand doctrine? Those that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts..... For precept must be upon precept, ... line upon line, ... here a little, and there a little: [Isaiah 28:9-10]

ie: a homosexual may say he would never molest children, but Jesus says he very easily can. Remember the homosexual catholic priests who did, it came with the package called perversion. Homosexuality is not a sin per se, but it is a abominable sin that is linked to many more sins and will lead to death, spiritual as well as physical.
Jesus basically taught that if one does one sin, he will do another. Jesus said, He that is unfaithful in that which is least is unfaithful also in much: [Lk:16:10]
That is if one steals, he might murder also. If he rapes, he will also steal and murder. God's point is he is UNFAITHFUL: to God; guilty in one point is guilty in all points. A little leaven leaven the whole lump.
Sin doesn't just defile a little of a man, but defiles all of the man.
The Bible says that murder, adultery, fornication, homosexuality are sins and will destroy you.
God's attitude toward it is, "Okay if you want this in your life you have to take what comes with it, which is more sin."
People wrest the scriptures to say what they want them to say, but the Scriptures are safe..
Homosexuality is a sin.
Because GOD SAID SO.

 

[Autodidact]

"I was referring to your equating murder and homosexuality as being equally sinful. Maybe you could be more specific?"

The Bible places them together along with other death producing acts. Whom shall he teach knowledge? And whom shall he make to understand doctrine? Those that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts..... For precept must be upon precept, ... line upon line, ... here a little, and there a little: [Isaiah 28:9-10]

ie: a homosexual may say he would never molest children, but Jesus says he very easily can. Remember the homosexual catholic priests who did, it came with the package called perversion. Homosexuality is not a sin per se, but it is a abominable sin that is linked to many more sins and will lead to death, spiritual as well as physical.
Jesus basically taught that if one does one sin, he will do another. Jesus said, He that is unfaithful in that which is least is unfaithful also in much: [Lk:16:10]
That is if one steals, he might murder also. If he rapes, he will also steal and murder. God's point is he is UNFAITHFUL: to God; guilty in one point is guilty in all points. A little leaven leaven the whole lump.
Sin doesn't just defile a little of a man, but defiles all of the man.
The Bible says that murder, adultery, fornication, homosexuality are sins and will destroy you.
God's attitude toward it is, "Okay if you want this in your life you have to take what comes with it, which is more sin."
People wrest the scriptures to say what they want them to say, but the Scriptures are safe..
Homosexuality is a sin.
Because GOD SAID SO.

Your argument was that if the Bible doesn't prohibit it, than anything goes. That without biblical prohibition, there is no moral difference between murder and homosexuality; both are equally moral. I am trying to point out that in one, you kill someone else, and in the other, you love someone else. They are morally opposite. so what the Bible says would not help with this question.

 

[Crowley]

He was sad, depressed, and lonely because he could never bring himself to overcome the view of himself that he got from people like you. Not because of what he was. Because of you.

If he had been stronger, he could have overcome those attitudes. Millions of us have done it. Instead, he internalized the contempt you had for him, and misconstrued your pity as love. It's not his fault he was sad, depressed, and lonely, and it's not the result of what he was. It's your fault.

It was your attitudes and beliefs that made him so sure he was an outcast and a misfit. You couldn't see past your own prejudices to understand the beauty and value in what he was. You made him a misfit, and then you patted yourselves on the back for pitying him.

That's not love. It's not even basic human decency.

:sorry1: But you're not going to blame his life on me.
Christ came and lived and suffered and died, therefore he was without excuse. Before he died, he repented of his sins (including sexual perversions) and recieved Christ.
Jesus sweat as it were blood for our sins, and died a horrible death of crucifixion, so no one is going to try to blame anything on me. I didn't do one thing to hurt him, in fact I loved him all the way to the end.
I take God seriously. I take sin seriously. I take people seriously.
My friend didn't, but he is in heaven now so all is well that began sad thanks to Jesus Christ who saved him from Hell.

 

[Crowley]

"Your argument was that if the Bible doesn't prohibit it, than anything goes. That without biblical prohibition, there is no moral difference between murder and homosexuality; both are equally moral. I am trying to point out that in one, you kill someone else, and in the other, you love someone else. They are morally opposite. so what the Bible says would not help with this question."

I didn't say what you said. I said that God sees sin as sin and if you commit one sin, you are guilty of them all. If you are a homosexual you are also a child molester and a thief and murderer, a liar and a rapist. This is how God sees it.
Love is not what you think it is if you think it is lust or sex,it isn't.
1 Corinthians 13 describes what love is and it has all to do with God.
Love is the only thing the Bible doesn't prohibit.
1 Corinthians love, not the "love" that makes people marry and divorce over and over and it is not the "love" that betrays another.
And it is not what brings homosexuals together; that is not love, that is sexual lust seeking gratification.
The homosexual directs his life by what his sexual organs dictate and this is not motivated by love, but it is self-seeking and self absorbed.

 

[Crowley]

Napoleon;877343

Homosexuality is never referred to as an "abomination". To assert otherwise is to have 0 understanding of classical Hebrew and 0 understanding of the context in which the laws were written.

Yes it is. In any language it is a sin. Men poking, kissing, holding and lusting other men is a sin and that is all there is to it.

Right. And I suppose you're going to assert that Jesus felt the same way about women even though one of his closest friends and confidants was a woman and even though he charged said woman with the task of carrying on his legacy.

???? what are you talking about? Jesus felt what way about women? I am a woman and believe me it is the way Jesus has treated me all these years that keeps me with him.

 

[Crowley]

Quoted for truth!

That is not the point.

 

[Autodidact]

Napoleon;877343

Yes it is. In any language it is a sin. Men poking, kissing, holding and lusting other men is a sin and that is all there is to it.

Because Crowley says so? Regardless of what the Bible says? Because the point of this post is that the Bible does NOT say so.

What about men loving each other? Is that a sin?

 

[Crowley]

Because Crowley says so? Regardless of what the Bible says? Because the point of this post is that the Bible does NOT say so.

What about men loving each other? Is that a sin?

The only love the Bible recognizes as love is the love of God.
It is described in 1 Corinthians 13.
The Bible does not recognize lust as love.
An argument used by gays is David and Jonathan, but that was God's love they had for each other, not lustful sexual attachment.
It surpassed the love of women because it wasn't romantic attachment, like the love David had for Bathsheba or the love Jacob had for Rachel.
It was the love of God which love surpasses the love of anything else.
In experiencing God's love other loves all flee.

 

[Crowley]

What about men loving each other? Is that a sin?

It is never a sin to love anyone. In fact the Bible says against such there is no law. We are to make love our aim.
But love gives, it doesn't take or lust.
It abides and never fails.
"For God so loved the world that he gave..."

 

[Autodidact]

The only love the Bible recognizes as love is the love of God.

Wow, that's one sick religion you got there.

The Bible does not recognize lust as love.

Why, when you talk about homosexuals, do you always use the word lust, but not for heterosexuals? Homosexuals are no more or less lustful than heterosexuals. The only difference is the object of their love or lust, as the case may be. I love my sweetheart with all my heart. I express my love for her many different ways, most of them quite mundane, but important to us, and including physically, which she appreciates as well. I believe this is pretty much what a few lucky happily married heterosexuals do, no?

An argument used by gays is David and Jonathan, but that was God's love they had for each other, not lustful sexual attachment.

It surpassed the love of women because it wasn't romantic attachment, like the love David had for Bathsheba or the love Jacob had for Rachel.
It was the love of God which love surpasses the love of anything else.
In experiencing God's love other loves all flee.

Maybe you should deal with the arguments actually being made, rather than the one's you like to answer. The argument has been made, not by me, that you are incorrect in your translation and context, and that male homosexuality is not an abomination according to the OT.

The argument has been made by me that lesbianism is only mentioned once in the entire Bible, which is pretty amazing, and never prohibited. Not once. Eating weasels is prohibited. Grabbing your husband's wrestling opponent's testicles is prohibited. Gathering sticks on Saturday. Trimming your beard. Removing parapets from your roof. Wearing clothing of mixed fibers. Making stone images of things. Enslaving brother Hebrews. (But not people from neighboring countries.) Lots and lots of commandments and prohibitions. But none, not one, prohibiting women from loving each other or expressing that love. Zip. Bupkus. Yet I'll take a wild guess that you consider it a sin anyway, while happily doing many things expressly prohibited by what you claim to be the source of your morality, the Bible. You have replaced the holy word of God with your own narrow prejudices. Is that a sin?

 

[Crowley]

jrnmz;877127]Leviticus is not the only scripture that shows that homosexuality is something detestable to god. Look up Romans. 1:27 which says "and likewise even the males left the natural use of the female and became violently enflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is OBSCENE and recieving in themselves the full recompense which was due for their ERROR."

Also look at Colossians 3:5,6 which states " Deaden, therefore, your body members that upon the earth as respects fornication, uncleanness,sexual appetite, hurtful desire, and coveteousness, which is idolatry. On account of these things the WRATH OF GOD IS COMING." So if God tells us that these things would occur and that the wrath of god is coming for those who practice fornication and uncleanness, dont you think homosexuality would fall into that category? Something to think about

That's right, we are to deaden our members upon earth.
The gay community has been trying to find loopholes in the Bible, wresting scriptures to justify their sin.
But our Scriptures are safe.
The gospel message is the same for all, to repent and turn from our sins and follow Jesus. Jesus said to follow him requires death to self.
If I am a thief then the thief must die. If I am a liar, the liar must die.
If I'm a murderer the murderer must die, and so on.
I must die to self and take up my cross and follow Christ.
A gay said he prayed, fasted, cried and waited for years for God to change him.
When it never happened, he foolishly assumed that since God didn't "change" him then it must be God's will for him to have sex with the same sex as he.
He failed to understand the gospel message.
God never promised to change anyone, he commands us to repent and die to self.
He doesn't promise to make us better, he wants to make us deader.
Jesus said we must take up our cross and follow him if we would be his disciples.

 

[Trassin]

Crowley, since you are so adamant about following the bible can I assume that you follow these laws also?

Lev 20:9 If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head.

Lev 18:19 Do not approach a woman to have sexual relations during the uncleanness of her monthly period.

Lev 25:44 Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.

Deut 14:8 The pig is also unclean; although it has a split hoof, it does not chew the cud. You are not to eat their meat or touch their carcasses.

Deut 22:11 Do not wear clothes of wool and linen woven together.

Exodus 35:2 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.

If you do not follow those also then I would have to ask, why not? Is the undo attention towards a specific translation of the bible that calls out homosexuality instead just an excuse for your own views?

 

[Autodidact]

It is never a sin to love anyone. In fact the Bible says against such there is no law. We are to make love our aim.
But love gives, it doesn't take or lust.
It abides and never fails.
"For God so loved the world that he gave..."

Newsflash: physical expression of love can be all about giving to one another.

This obsession with lust makes me think you're really perverted. When someone says they're gay, you immediately think lust, sex, etc? Gay relationships are just like straight relationships, except for gender. When someone says they're engaged, do you immediately start thinking about the intercourse they will be engaging in on their honeymoon? Or do you think it's nice that two people can love each other? Well, it's the same for two gay people.

Here's the moral argument in a nutshell: I love V and she loves me. I give her love and she gives it to me. We increase the total happiness in the world while hurting no one, other than you poor single men who are deprived of the opportunity to date my lovely V. Therefore, our relationship is moral.

Further, it is not prohibited even by your holy book, so it is not even sinful, not that I care since I do not share in your superstition.

 

[lillitruthseeker]

Homosexuality isn't a sin. Sex outside of marriage is. Marriage between man and woman was ordained by God. Marriage between woman & woman or man & man wasn't.

lol this was crackin me up -- nice way to put a spin on words