IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Don't you also believe that Elijah raised the dead and did other miracles?Sure but Jesus is different. One example is his gift to raise the deceased, but let’s not derail this thread.
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Don't you also believe that Elijah raised the dead and did other miracles?Sure but Jesus is different. One example is his gift to raise the deceased, but let’s not derail this thread.
I was once told the following story. I'm not sure which in which document it is recorded.No. It's not based on group membership. It's based on lack of practice. Actions. If Jay practiced, he probably would be able participate. It wouldn't take much to improve from what he's doing now.
... who does not practice ...
What happens if person doesn't practice? Use it or lose it.
Because you are trying to use the rules of your own culture, rather than understand the rules of ours.I don’t see that would alter the legal status of Jesus as Joseph’s adoptive son.
Yes. I do. Let me mention some of the things we know about the Pharisees.Let me ask you this question.
Regardless if Jesus was the Messiah of Jews or not, do you think, the Jewish leaders at the time of Jesus were on the Right Path? Were they good and fair? Did they treat Jesus fairly, and the people justly?
Ah, good day after Sabbath I believe. Not sure if your religion says it's ok to read these boards during Shabbos time. So just curious since you proclaim yourself as so smart -- regarding authoritative religious views -- why do you say conservative and reform Jews who like you also do not accept Christ as the Messiah (moshiach) are apostate?I have read the bible and it didn't impress me. I have also read the entire Tanakh numerous times. I am also well aware of the Septuagint, in fact it's creation is documented in the Talmud. Only the Torah was translated and it's not considered authoritive anyway. The rabbi's at the time purposely mistranslated it in order to not offend the king, among other errors introduced.
On your best day you aren't half as smart as I am on my drunkest. When you have something to say other then insulting my intelligence let me know.
What do you mean by many. Do you simply mean a large number, like many people eat hot dogs? Or are you talking about a significant portion of the Jewish people?and many Jews believe now.
I would say we can't really know, since we have nothing written by Jesus. All we have are collections of legends about him. Some stories are much more probable, like that he taught Torah observance. Other stories are highly unlikely, like raising Lazarus from the dead. But in the end, all we can do is use our intelligence to make educated guesses.That said, If I were a Jew seeking truth, the questions for my honest consideration in answering the messiahship of Jesus would be: If Jesus existed,
1. Who was he?
2. What was his teaching?
It is actually pretty likely that he was crucified by the Romans, who crucified people left and right if they created any kind of disturbance.3. Did he Die? (Why and how?)
People don't come back from the dead.4. Did he rise from the dead?
We have no eye witness accounts. We have legends that built up around him in the decades following his death.5. What did the eye witnesses say?
Sure. Jesus gives a very typical Rabbinical response in Mark 12, quoting from the Torah:6. Is any part of the NT true?
No. The word for Lord in Zechariah 14:9 is actually the tetragrammaton, the divine name of God. It does not refer to the messiah, who is a man. In Judaism, a great many of our prayers begin with the words: Baruch ata Adonai, eloheinu melech haolam. which means Blessed are you, Lord God, King of the universe...
7. Could Jesus be the promised king in Zechariah 14?
I've read the book of Revelation. I'm not sure why you think it interprets Zechariah. You are far better off simply looking at the Hebrew text.(For this last question, I would consider reading the Revelation of Jesus Christ, The account of John).
I'm assuming this was a typo, and you meant to type Isaiah 53. I realize that Christians most fervently believe this passage is about Jesus, but Jews see it as being about Israel.There I would 'probably' find one who fulfils the prophecies about the Mashiach which you listed. The one who matches the requirements.
Considering the reasons given why the Jews don't believe, Isaiah 55 comes to mind, particularly verses 8 - 11. I think this is a compelling reason to reconsider the disbelief.
This is one of the teachings of Christianity that I personally find baffling. So, God curses the Jews with laws we cannot keep and a requirement to be perfect or go to hell... That doesn't sound very loving to me at all.I think one major thing the law reveals is that no one is capable of keeping all the commandments all the time. Everyone falls short, except Jesus didn’t.
Erm, yeah, there are definitely problems there. But I'm sure that given time, Islam will come to a different understanding of the nature of the Quran. We need to remember that Islam is the baby of the three monotheisms. It is only 1400 years old. Give it time. It will mature.By definition of homophobia and anti-Semitism people throw around, then Quran is definitely both. Don't care what people think first rule of pleasing God.
Eliana is not mistaken. The original translation ordered by the Pharaoh was only for the Torah. Later in time, other books also came to be translated, but the scholarship is significantly lower.Wrong.
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Ησαΐας (Isaiah) 53 :: Septuagint (LXX)
Ησαΐας (Isaiah) 53 - κύριε τίς ἐπίστευσεν τῇ ἀκοῇ ἡμῶν καὶ ὁ βραχίων κυρίου τίνι ἀπεκαλύφθηwww.blueletterbible.org
Irrelevant.I have read the bible and it didn't impress me. I have also read the entire Tanakh numerous times. I am also well aware of the Septuagint, in fact it's creation is documented in the Talmud.
Ok what is the evidence for it? The Talmud?Only the Torah was translated and it's not considered authoritive anyway. The rabbi's at the time purposely mistranslated it in order to not offend the king, among other errors introduced.
As you say.On your best day you aren't half as smart as I am on my drunkest. When you have something to say other then insulting my intelligence let me know.
It is the Talmud that contains the story of the 72 scholars asked by the Pharaoh to translate the Torah, six from each tribe, working independently. According to the midrash, when the different translations were compared they were identical.Ok what is the evidence for it? The Talmud?
It deals with it because the penalty for sin is death and persons are treated as being dead/artificial entities in law.
Sure but Jesus raised the most. However, Jesus is the one set to return with a new heaven and new earth not Elijah.Don't you also believe that Elijah raised the dead and did other miracles?
But that's not all of it.It is the Talmud that contains the story of the 72 scholars asked by the Pharaoh to translate the Torah, six from each tribe, working independently. According to the midrash, when the different translations were compared they were identical.
Indeed.Other sources are Philo and Josephus.
I've seen this discussed here a bit and there is a lot of misinformation so here are some of the key (but not all) reasons Jews do not believe in Jesus.
The Messiah must be from David's line and from the tribe of Judah, Jesus was not.
The Messiah must rebuild the temple, the temple still stood when Jesus lived.
The Messiah must reunite the Jews, the Jews were not even scattered when Jesus lived.
The Messiah must be Jewish... duh.
The Messiah will establish world peace and rule justly, Jesus did not do this.
The Messiah will rule when the Torah is written in everyone's heart and all people acknowledge Hashem as G-d, Jesus did not do this.
In addition Jews do not accept the notion of a trinity or original sin. We do not believe G-d will assume a human form. Nowhere in Messianic prophecy is the Messiah G-d in human form or otherwise. Jews also do not believe anyone can assume responsibility for the sins of another. G-d also calls human sacrifice an abomination and condemns it in the strongest possible terms. There is nothing in Messianic prophecy about the Messiah dying and coming back at a later date, it says he will finish the job.
There's more, but that's a primer for anyone interested.
Maybe the problem is in the terms and how people define them.Erm, yeah, there are definitely problems there. But I'm sure that given time, Islam will come to a different understanding of the nature of the Quran. We need to remember that Islam is the baby of the three monotheisms. It is only 1400 years old. Give it time. It will mature.
In Genesis, Satan was in the tree of knowledge of good and evil, with Knowledge of good and evil describing law. Law is Satanic as symbolize by the serpent in the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Lawwas never condoned by God. Adam and Eve were expelled for choosing law. Jesus was not about law, but about life; tree of life; will of his Father and not the will of Satan and law. If Jesus was under law he would have also become Satanic. The problem the Jews had was their prestige was based on law and specific rules. To do without law and their rules would have taken away their identity. They would have become more homogenized like the Gentiles.I've seen this discussed here a bit and there is a lot of misinformation so here are some of the key (but not all) reasons Jews do not believe in Jesus.
The Messiah must be from David's line and from the tribe of Judah, Jesus was not.
The Messiah must rebuild the temple, the temple still stood when Jesus lived.
The Messiah must reunite the Jews, the Jews were not even scattered when Jesus lived.
The Messiah must be Jewish... duh.
The Messiah will establish world peace and rule justly, Jesus did not do this.
The Messiah will rule when the Torah is written in everyone's heart and all people acknowledge Hashem as G-d, Jesus did not do this.
In addition Jews do not accept the notion of a trinity or original sin. We do not believe G-d will assume a human form. Nowhere in Messianic prophecy is the Messiah G-d in human form or otherwise. Jews also do not believe anyone can assume responsibility for the sins of another. G-d also calls human sacrifice an abomination and condemns it in the strongest possible terms. There is nothing in Messianic prophecy about the Messiah dying and coming back at a later date, it says he will finish the job.
There's more, but that's a primer for anyone interested.
You probably have heard of Bar Kochba. Many Jews thought he was the Messiah, but things didn't work out too well.Not true. They are dividing from me. In brief: They started it. I've tolerated it in the past. Not any more.
Besides we are united, in opposition. They are the negative role-models. Their behavior is a wonderful opportunity for learning what NOT to do.
I have been studying sacred writings since the age of ten, and at first glance, without intending to disrespect, the presented interpretative framework seems to be an exegesis of an extremist proselyte of the pseudo-Pauline theology of false Hellenistic Christianity. Many speculative points contradict the clear statements made by Paul about the Law in his original letters. In any case, all that is new evokes many feelings and should be analyzed from an impartial perspective.In Genesis, Satan was in the tree of knowledge of good and evil, with Knowledge of good and evil describing law. Law is Satanic as symbolize by the serpent in the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Lawwas never condoned by God. Adam and Eve were expelled for choosing law. Jesus was not about law, but about life; tree of life; will of his Father and not the will of Satan and law. If Jesus was under law he would have also become Satanic. The problem the Jews had was their prestige was based on law and specific rules. To do without law and their rules would have taken away their identity. They would have become more homogenized like the Gentiles.
Before Jesus began his ministry, he went into the desert to fast and pray. He was visited by Satan, who among other things, offers Jesus all the wealth and glory of the kingdoms of the earth, if he would bow and serve Satan. Had Jesus accepted the offer, he would have become the Messiah who was anticipated; rich and powerful and able to subdue and own even Rome. But Jesus refuses the offer, but he never questions the authority of Satan to make this offer. He knew his Father had given Satan the job of Lord of the Earth; mediator of good and evil, to look after Adam and Eve after the fall. They had chosen each other and via love kept them together. Jesus, by refusing the offer, messed up the Messiah prophesy of Satan. Jesus was the one but refused. This created a political war in Heaven; what do we do now; leading to full scale war, where Satan and 1/3 of the Angels are thrown from heaven; Revelations. Satan was high up in the chain of command with 1/3 of the Angels at his disposal.
Satan had been condoned in Heaven, by God, from before Adam and Eve, up to that war in heaven. He was doing God's will, but lost this special status after Jesus gummed up the works. This may be why the Messiah job is still left hanging. It made no sense after the desert. After Satan is thrown from heaven, humans do not see anything being different, but now the laws good and evil and Satan are no longer condoned by Heaven, even of still part of the earth and humans. Forgiveness of sins was needed in advance since people will continue like nothing changed, and they will nee some extra help and support, since Satan is now free lancing and on the rampage. Now law is used for evil purposes; law-fare, with many thinking this is good; sinning via the confusion would now be forgivable if there is a change of heart; sin no more.