Why liberalism can and has been a disease.

[Shadow Wolf]

San Francisco is still nonetheless completely in Democrats hands and you still don't have an answer as to why it's in that abysmal state. Why is it being ignored by Democrats then?

And you haven't provided anything as to why LA doesn't look like San Fransisco. You haven't been able to explain how one city reflects what happens with Democrats completely in control. As I pointed out, it works just as well to assume riots and massive fires are a part of a Democrat control, even though that was one city and a reaction to a specific event, and even though other cities were not in a state of disaster.
And of course I don't have many answers. I've only been here five months, and about two of those I've not had transportation. I do know it's harder to get a job when you're homeless, and I'm sure at least a few simply don't want to work. But, overall I'm still learning labor laws here, learning about their cultural quirks, and taking in things on a regular basis.
What I find interesting though, is that the poor, generally to those on the Right the poor are lazy and not trying hard enough. But now, because things aren't looking good in one city, suddenly the homeless are a humanitarian concern?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I'm sorry, but that video conflated far too many problems, and then tried to push all of them under the aegis of "liberal" or "progressive" ideologies...and it doesn't work. If you want to have a conversation about all that's in it, you need to break it down. Something on the order of:

• Drug addiction is a real problem, and it's causing deaths...deaths that may be preventable by any of several means (finding ways to reduce addiction, helping the addicted to use safely, letting the addicted die off and hope nobody else will become addicted later, etc.)
• Mental health issues frequently make sufferers unable to assume full responsibility for themselves, and no law forces anyone else to assume that responsibility. Might the state, then, take some of that responsibility on itself, using taxpayers money, for the protection of both the sufferers and society as a whole? (That, by the way, was a question answered in my province of Ontario about 40 or so years ago when the government basically let a lot of such people out on the street, citing "freedom of choice," but in fact, in order to save a big whack of dollars spent on care. I always felt that was the wrong thing to do.)

It is my hope that somebody, we can stop trying to blame "liberals" and "conservatives" for all of our ills. That simply is not and never was true. In my view, the biggest problem is our unwillingness to look more deeply into the causes, effects and even potential solution to some of society's worst problems. We offer protection to children, minors, because we make the assumption that they are not capable of making informed decisions for themselves. Would it be so very wrong, sometimes, to make the same assumption about those who are of age, but objectively just as incapable of informed choice?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If there are so many jobs then why is Calif home to 1/4 of the nations homeless population? That's lot of folks who could use a job.

I have wondered if that there being tons of people here is why there are so many homeless and disabled people here. Or do the assistance programs draw in those who are already poor or homeless? How many came here to have their dreams of stardom shattered?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

In my view, the biggest problem is our unwillingness to look more deeply into the causes, effects and even potential solution to some of society's worst problems.

Exactly that! California has a very strong economy, jobs are abundant, the rest of California isn't San Fransisco, so clearly there is a deeper issue going on. After all, they wouldn't be building even more apartments if they didn't expect they can fill them. It may be that Silicon Valley brought too much money into the city. It could be the worst drug epidemic in America is being ignored. It could be many simply refuse to relocate to a more affordable place (pretty much just about anywhere else in California). But, clearly, there are too many inconsistencies to blame it on Democrat policy. We could expect much of the state to look like San Fransisco if that were the case.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I have wondered if that there being tons of people here is why there are so many homeless and disabled people here. Or do the assistance programs draw in those who are already poor or homeless? How many came here to have their dreams of stardom shattered?

I think you make a very good point. A lot of people with various issues tend to migrate to places that are seen to have some magical ability to either make those issues go away, or to offer a whole new life. Up here in Canada, a lot of unhappy people in cold, snowy Ontario and Quebec have moved to British Columbia where there's less snow and cold, but more rain. (Old saying about Canadian winter: in Toronto you freeze, in Vancouver you rust.) Trouble is, that makes Vancouver a city with more unhappy people than in Toronto or Montreal...because, you know, wherever you go, there "YOU" are. The bags you packed when you left are the bags you unpack when you arrive.

 

[Audie]

From what I've seen of the homeless here, a good number of them, it's not that they won't but can't. Of course I've seen some who appear able bodied holding up a "help, hungry, homeless" sign in the middle of "now hiring" signs, but some are on wheelchairs, crutches, have amputated limbs, and clearly aren't all their in the head.
My best guess is some assistance programs may be backed up - I know that housing assistance here is about two years backed up according to the Area 5 here (or HUD, or whatever it is they have here, I don't remember).
But in time I should have a better picture of what exactly the story is here.

None of us can rely on being able to sort out what is cant and
what is wont.

 

[TheresOnlyNow]

This thread has no other purpose than to divide and troll the forums.

Have you bothered to read the alleged Democrat members in the political forums here? One can rightly observe their purpose is to divide and troll those forums.
I've stopped posting there at all because quite frankly it isn't healthy to continue to engage a collective "group think" that is either entirely serious and trolling to divide Christians who are political. Or, are entirely trolling just to watch their efforts gain a response.

And anyone who bothers to vote, or is old enough to, knows that every election all media outlets divide this nation into states that are predominantly one or the other party. Republican (Red) or Democrat(Blue). Now they're also finding a cross section so as to add purple to that map. Because red and blue make the purple color.

I've been to San Francisco. It isn't news SF is strong Democrat. However, all of California is Democrat. And in the last few years has gone so far afield in public policy, especially with Jerry sorry excuse for a governor Brown at the helm.
California is so corrupt in its turning against even the most basic Federal laws that it should be stripped of statehood. And all federal employees and offices closed at once.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

San Francisco is one of those unique cities where just about every policy of liberalism has been put into practical real world use without any conservative policy in play.

This is the real world result. The video is about 6 months old.

Conservatism isn't perfect either, maybe I'll make a thread on that , but for now, from what I see here, liberalism is clearly far far worse. I will never ever support leftist and liberal policies that can bring about something like this.

Keep going left, and more left, and you just might eventually have a nation that looks like San Francisco with a mayor that has no real sense of humanity in their own backyard. Their minds are too much on character assassination and politicking between themselves. I don't want what is going on in San Francisco to ever happen to our entire country.

San Francisco is a pretty frightening precursor enough as it is. It's a shame , because it really at one time was a gorgeous and beautiful city. Now look at what it's turned into.

Maybe it's a time for a new party to emerge where a proper balance of liberalism and conservatism rules the day. Not the extreme.

I did not know Robin Leach had a son.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I liked Bakersfield.

I think you're the first person I've heard say that. I have so far only heard how much cities around here suck. And then I tell them what Indiana is like. It was kind of funny at a group meeting when I was talking about how cool and hoppin' Visalia is, everyone looked at me like I'm weird. And then I win mega sympathy points here is so much better than where I came from, lol.
Myself, it's just too big and noisy here. Once I have my Master's degree I'll probably go back up around Visalia and set up shop.

 

[Revoltingest]

If there is a liberal disease, then this could exemplify it....
Pope Francis says 'builders of walls' sow fear and divide - CNN
To publicly oppose walls while ensconced within them is to have blindness to irony.
This disease could afflict conservatives too.

 

[Notanumber]

San Francisco is one of those unique cities where just about every policy of liberalism has been put into practical real world use without any conservative policy in play.

This is the real world result. The video is about 6 months old.

Conservatism isn't perfect either, maybe I'll make a thread on that , but for now, from what I see here, liberalism is clearly far far worse. I will never ever support leftist and liberal policies that can bring about something like this.

Keep going left, and more left, and you just might eventually have a nation that looks like San Francisco with a mayor that has no real sense of humanity in their own backyard. Their minds are too much on character assassination and politicking between themselves. I don't want what is going on in San Francisco to ever happen to our entire country.

San Francisco is a pretty frightening precursor enough as it is. It's a shame , because it really at one time was a gorgeous and beautiful city. Now look at what it's turned into.

Maybe it's a time for a new party to emerge where a proper balance of liberalism and conservatism rules the day. Not the extreme.

You couldn’t make it up!

PJW is on to something.

 

[TheresOnlyNow]

If there is a liberal disease, then this could exemplify it....
Pope Francis says 'builders of walls' sow fear and divide - CNN
To publicly oppose walls while ensconced within them is to have blindness to irony.

The office of Pope is a continuation of the office of the Caesars, via Constantine and his machinations in creating what is today known as the Romans Catholic church.
Not to be confused with the Catholic church (universal body of believers) , in scripture.
He's a dictator. He's clearly unaware that his remarks are absurd being he lives behind what he condemns .
And I doubt very much he's ventured to our border to see for himself how bad it is there.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Exactly that! California has a very strong economy, jobs are abundant, the rest of California isn't San Fransisco, so clearly there is a deeper issue going on. After all, they wouldn't be building even more apartments if they didn't expect they can fill them. It may be that Silicon Valley brought too much money into the city. It could be the worst drug epidemic in America is being ignored. It could be many simply refuse to relocate to a more affordable place (pretty much just about anywhere else in California). But, clearly, there are too many inconsistencies to blame it on Democrat policy. We could expect much of the state to look like San Fransisco if that were the case.

Then what are Democrats going to do about it?

I'll tell you.

Nothing.

They are still in charge of the city over there. Status quo. Business as usual.

 

[Nakosis]

I have wondered if that there being tons of people here is why there are so many homeless and disabled people here. Or do the assistance programs draw in those who are already poor or homeless? How many came here to have their dreams of stardom shattered?

Having been homeless myself, government programs help me to get a job and find a place to stay. I was also in a mental health program for a while.

Hard for me to argue against the reality of my own experience. We can't expect people to get off the street on their own. Still I question whether the tax money is being used well.

 

[Nakosis]

I think you're the first person I've heard say that. I have so far only heard how much cities around here suck. And then I tell them what Indiana is like. It was kind of funny at a group meeting when I was talking about how cool and hoppin' Visalia is, everyone looked at me like I'm weird. And then I win mega sympathy points here is so much better than where I came from, lol.
Myself, it's just too big and noisy here. Once I have my Master's degree I'll probably go back up around Visalia and set up shop.

Visalia is where I grew up.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

California is so corrupt in its turning against even the most basic Federal laws that it should be stripped of statehood. And all federal employees and offices closed at once.

I quickly discovered California tends to make it's own laws. The way it was intended to be done from day one under the American Constitution.Texas, Alabama, and Indiana have also defied federal law, with Pence currently serving as VP despite his defiance towards federal law while he was governor of Indiana.
And stripped of statehood? Not only is that unfeasible considering it has met the requirements for statehood, there would be no possible way to implement such a thing.
But, please do. Give California a reason to succeed (though it can't happen). Y'all'll go hungry from higher food costs, go broke from the cost increases of everything else that comes from here, and then the Union will come crawling to beg California to rejoin. That's if the oil doesn't have the Union having a very, very ugly cry as it pleads for California to rejoin doesn't happen first.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Cost of living. I've a nephew who lives in SF and pays $3000 a month for a one room studio apartment. Right outside covering the sidewalk are folks living on the street asking for handouts.

Spoiler Alert:

I'm sure that $3k a month for a studio is luxury or in an affluent area. Not even downtown Los Angeles has something that cost that much for a studio and that is near Staples and LA Live.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Visalia is where I grew up.

I have to admit, I was fascinated seeing what I think is the main drag through Visalia (the road the Fox Theater is on, also with tons of restaurants and shopping mall thingies), but what had me thinking highly of it was being able to watch Beetlejuice in the Fox Theatre. For five bucks a ticket and three dollars for a soda and popcorn.
If I had the money I would have went to see Styx at the Fox Theatre here in Bakersfield. I've seen them a bunch of times already though.

 

[TheresOnlyNow]

I quickly discovered California tends to make it's own laws. The way it was intended to be done from day one under the American Constitution.Texas, Alabama, and Indiana have also defied federal law, with Pence currently serving as VP despite his defiance towards federal law while he was governor of Indiana.
And stripped of statehood? Not only is that unfeasible considering it has met the requirements for statehood, there would be no possible way to implement such a thing.
But, please do. Give California a reason to succeed (though it can't happen). Y'all'll go hungry from higher food costs, go broke from the cost increases of everything else that comes from here, and then the Union will come crawling to beg California to rejoin. That's if the oil doesn't have the Union having a very, very ugly cry as it pleads for California to rejoin doesn't happen first.

I had said I don't participate in the political forums due to the behavior of what was described as Trolling Democrats here.
This thread got my attention after making that admission due to personal experience in SF.
So , as the last post I'll put in the political forums, because the atmosphere here is not healthy and is not inviting of serious adult debate, you've no idea what you're talking about. Not one iota.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Spoiler Alert:

I'm sure that $3k a month for a studio is luxury or in an affluent area. Not even downtown Los Angeles has something that cost that much for a studio and that is near Staples and LA Live.

I thought it looked high, and I didn't recall seeing anything that high when I was searching for apartments (I checked out rent of several cities just to check). I've seen them that high, but pretty much for an apartment of affluence or is large enough for a family with a few kids.
I also saw some that were fairly cheap, but I'd definitely want to know what the neighborhood is like first.