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Why making your children follow your religion truly is brainwashing

sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
9-10ths_Penguin said:
If you had been paying attention to the thread, you would have seen that it's been indoctrination, not merely education, that I've been objecting to this whole time.
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I understand that. I'm merely pointing out that religious upbringing involves more than teaching about the religion. It also involves an experiential encounter with the religion, and that encounter need not be indoctrination, as you seem to imply here. Your line demarcates "good indoctrination" from "bad indoctrination." My point is that the argument is better served by demarcating "indoctrination" from "valid teaching."
 
Magic Man

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
I feel I should post this here:

A schoolgirl has killed herself because she was desperate to be reunited with her dead father in heaven.
Maria Kislo, 12, was discovered hanging in her room by her mother Monika, 35, when she went to read her a bedtime story.
Next to the tragic youngster's body was a short note saying: 'Dear Mum. Please don't be sad. I just miss daddy so much, I want to see him again.'

Her doting father Arek died suddenly in 2009 after a massive heart attack.
Distraught Ms Kislo, 35, from Leszno, Poland, said: 'Five years ago I lost my husband Arek, this year my daughter. I don’t know if I can go on, and I wouldn't if it was not for my son,' she said.

'She didn't seem unhappy. She didn't have problems at school and she seemed a happy little girl.
'I had no idea she missed her father so much, she never really spoke about it,' she added.
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Koldo

Koldo

Outstanding Member
sojourner said:
So? It's a tragic story, but there were obviously more things than simple religious upbringing going on that contributed to the suicide. I doubt that religious upbringing had all that much to do with it.
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It was just ... essential.
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Koldo said:
It was just ... essential.
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No. Not essential. The attendant emotional distress and mental instability was essential. Millions of people have had Christian upbringings, and most of them have lost someone near and dear to them. Most, however, don't commit suicide "based" on that upbringing. In fact, that same upbringing stresses the sanctity of life. So, there would have to be present some instability -- in fact, the same instability that causes anyone -- religious or not -- to commit suicide.
 
Koldo

Koldo

Outstanding Member
sojourner said:
No. Not essential. The attendant emotional distress and mental instability was essential. Millions of people have had Christian upbringings, and most of them have lost someone near and dear to them. Most, however, don't commit suicide "based" on that upbringing. In fact, that same upbringing stresses the sanctity of life. So, there would have to be present some instability -- in fact, the same instability that causes anyone -- religious or not -- to commit suicide.
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And yet, if this individual did not believe that she could meet her father once again after death, who knows what might have happened?

If the text is correct: "A schoolgirl has killed herself because she was desperate to be reunited with her dead father in heaven. '', then it wouldn't have happened.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
sojourner said:
Your question doesn't address the point to which I was responding. So, no. I don't care to answer the question. It's simply not germane.
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It's entirely germane. You're presenting your own opinion of religion as, if not the standard model, some sort of archetype. Meanwhile, if we looked at the full spectrum of religious belief, we'd find that not only is your position only representative of a very small sliver of that spectrum, that small sliver would be dwarfed by the percentage of religious people who find your approach downright heretical.

Basically, you're trying to get the tail to wag the dog.
 
ChristineES

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
It's entirely germane. You're presenting your own opinion of religion as, if not the standard model, some sort of archetype. Meanwhile, if we looked at the full spectrum of religious belief, we'd find that not only is your position only representative of a very small sliver of that spectrum, that small sliver would be dwarfed by the percentage of religious people who find your approach downright heretical.

Basically, you're trying to get the tail to wag the dog.
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What does that have to do with anything? People are using the general term "religion" and there are a lot of different religions out there. There are a lot of variations within all those different religions, which make them even more numerous. No one is separating Christianity from Hinduism or Islam from Paganism much less any variations within those religions. Edit: I meant within the thread.
 
Me Myself

Me Myself

Back to my username
ChristineES said:
What does that have to do with anything? People are using the general term "religion" and there are a lot of different religions out there. There are a lot of variations within all those different religions, which make them even more numerous. No one is separating Christianity from Hinduism or Islam from Paganism much less any variations within those religions.
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Absolutely.

Not to say there are talks about worries that religion may make people suicide, but dont understand the relationship of a link suggesting there are more suicides in atheism o.o
 
ChristineES

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
Me Myself said:
Absolutely.

Not to say there are talks about worries that religion may make people suicide, but dont understand the relationship of a link suggesting there are more suicides in atheism o.o
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I agree with you, neither religion or atheism causes suicide.
 
Me Myself

Me Myself

Back to my username
ChristineES said:
I agree with you, neither religion or atheism causes suicide.
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Pretty much.

Not to say that talking about religions in this terms is.. Well as you said, completely silly. Yoo many digferent sets of beliefs being judged by one specific case of one family of specific circumstances wi which one kid took action according to one set of beliefs oand one specific belief and disregarded all other options.

I find it flabergasting that that seemed to be some sort of "Haha! Religion is bad! "
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Koldo said:
And yet, if this individual did not believe that she could meet her father once again after death, who knows what might have happened?

If the text is correct: "A schoolgirl has killed herself because she was desperate to be reunited with her dead father in heaven. '', then it wouldn't have happened.
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She may have committed suicide simply based on the assumption that she could not live without her dad... Again, it's the mental instability, and not the religious upbringing that are compelling in this case.
 
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