Why making your children follow your religion truly is brainwashing

[Magic Man]

It also allows for so many possibilities that are entirely innoculous, and even beneficially viable, such as teaching that Santa is real.

Indeed, but so does the position that parents should not teach anything they believe as if it were fact.

 

[Me Myself]

Do you think those examples prove something?

As much as the examples you provided.

So they are a good analogy for the kind of evidence you are presenting: non stadistical evidence.

Non stadistical evidence is not reliable for a case such as these, just like the examples I provided are not a good way to measure the risks of playing videogames, walking watching sports, and the other activities.

Until you present statistical evidence showing raising them in your religion harms children (anymore than videogames or walking or watching sports) you are merely posting your opinion regarding it.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

And not even you agree that parents can teach whatever they like to their kids. That's what I don't get about this whole thing.

So far as I know, I haven't expressed an opinion one way or the other about what parents should or shouldn't teach their children. No one has asked me.

I'm pretty sure we can all agree that there are certain things parents shouldn't teach their kids.

Sure, but it's all personal opinion. I don't think parents should teach their kids to love money and to focus on some kind of career. To me, that's soul-killing. I want my kids to be poet-philosophers. But I recognize it as just my personal opinion.

The question is where to draw the line. For instance, I hope we all agree that parents shouldn't teach their kids that they can fly when they jump off buildings or that modern medicine in any form is evil and shouldn't be used.

Everyone in this thread might agree, but every parent certainly doesn't agree.

So the question becomes why. Why should parents not teach those things?

Because we hold a personal opinion that it's harmful to the kids. But the family unit is still pretty sacred. Do you want me to prevent you from teaching your kids various things that you want to teach them -- if I can demonstrate that your teachings might be harmful?

If we really should be fine with parents teaching whatever they believe to be fact, it allows for so many possibilities that we agree aren't good. So, the parent can't be the final arbiter of what's fact and what's not. There has to be some standard to compare to. All I'm saying is we use that standard to teach kids facts and beliefs.

Who's in charge of governing the standard? You? Or Pat Robertson?

What will you say when I try to prevent you from teaching your kids things which logic and reason tell me should not be taught?

 

[Magic Man]

As much as the examples you provided.

So they are a good analogy for the kind of evidence you are presenting: non stadistical evidence.

Non stadistical evidence is not reliable for a case such as these, just like the examples I provided are not a good way to measure the risks of playing videogames, walking watching sports, and the other activities.

Until you present statistical evidence showing raising them in your religion harms children (anymore than videogames or walking or watching sports) you are merely posting your opinion regarding it.

So, you are ignoring the other major relevant differences between your examples and the examples I've used?

 

[Me Myself]

So, you are ignoring the other major relevant differences between your examples and the examples I've used?

So you accept you have no statistical evidence that raising children with religion is harmful?

I ve been seeking I cant find a single study saying such. Found some that seem to say the contrary, but none that seems to say it is negative.

I also accidentally bumped with statistics saying atheists have a bigger suicide rate.

 

[Magic Man]

So far as I know, I haven't expressed an opinion one way or the other about what parents should or shouldn't teach their children. No one has asked me.

You did in a previous post, but let's clarify here. Would you agree that parents shouldn't teach their teach their kids they can fly by jumping off buildings?

Sure, but it's all personal opinion. I don't think parents should teach their kids to love money and to focus on some kind of career. To me, that's soul-killing. I want my kids to be poet-philosophers. But I recognize it as just my personal opinion.

Everyone in this thread might agree, but every parent certainly doesn't agree.

Because we hold a personal opinion that it's harmful to the kids. But the family unit is still pretty sacred. Do you want me to prevent you from teaching your kids various things that you want to teach them -- if I can demonstrate that your teachings might be harmful?

Who's in charge of governing the standard? You? Or Pat Robertson?

What will you say when I try to prevent you from teaching your kids things which logic and reason tell me should not be taught?

You don't seem to be arguing against what I'm saying here. You seem to be arguing instead against the idea of forcing people not to teach their kids religious beliefs.

What I'm actually saying is that parents shouldn't do it, not that we should step in and force them not to.

 

[Magic Man]

So you accept you have no statistical evidence that raising children with religion is harmful?

I ve been seeking I cant find a single study saying such. Found some that seem to say the contrary, but none that seems to say it is negative.

I also accidentally bumped with statistics saying atheists have a bigger suicide rate.

I'll take that as a yes.

 

[Me Myself]

I'll take that as a yes.

I cant find your link.

I am sure you wouldnt be holding your posture without evidence, but for some reason it just doesnt appear.

 

[Magic Man]

I cant find your link.

I am sure you wouldnt be holding your posture without evidence, but for some reason it just doesnt appear.

If you want to have an honest discussion here, you'll have to acknowledge that your examples were not relevant to my point.

 

[Me Myself]

If you want to have an honest discussion here, you'll have to acknowledge that your examples were not relevant to my point.

As soon as you present any good evidence that raising a kid with the parents religion harms hir.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

You don't seem to be arguing against what I'm saying here. You seem to be arguing instead against the idea of forcing people not to teach their kids religious beliefs.

What I'm actually saying is that parents shouldn't do it, not that we should step in and force them not to.

OK, fine. You shouldn't teach your children what I find objectionable, and I shouldn't teach my children what you find objectionable.

I am happy the subject is settled.

 

[Me Myself]

If you want to have an honest discussion here, you'll have to acknowledge that your examples were not relevant to my point.

If you want an honest discussion you would need to give clear evidence that religion harms children.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If you want an honest discussion you would need to give clear evidence that religion harms children.

I find it strange that someone who changed "making children follow your religion" to just "religion" now claims to be interested in honest discussion.

 

[Me Myself]

I find it strange that someone who changed "making children follow your religion" to just "religion" now claims to be interested in honest discussion.

By all means make it as you say. Its what I meant anyways.

I d like to see the statistical evidence.

 

[Enai de a lukal]

If you want an honest discussion you would need to give clear evidence that religion harms children.

Hmm, this may be a place to start...Several articles on Religious Trauma Syndrome by a Dr. Winell, with the British Association for Behavioral and Cognitive Psychotherapy.

"... religious indoctrination can be hugely damaging, and making the break from an authoritarian kind of religion can definitely be traumatic."

Sounds pertinent.

 

[Me Myself]

Hmm, this may be a place to start...Several articles on Religious Trauma Syndrome by a Dr. Winell, with the British Association for Behavioral and Cognitive Psychotherapy.

"... religious indoctrination can be hugely damaging, and making the break from an authoritarian kind of religion can definitely be traumatic."

Sounds pertinent.

How does he define religious indoctrination would be extremely pertinent.

Or the percentage of kids raised by the religion of their parents that suffer this condition.

 

[Enai de a lukal]

How does he define religious indoctrination would be extremely pertinent.

Or the percentage of kids raised by the religion of their parents that suffer this condition.

Its a she, and she talks about the specific types of religious upbringing/environment commonly associated with RTS in article 2. All the articles are short, concise, and easy to read- take a look for yourself.

 

[Me Myself]

Its a she, and she talks about the specific types of religious upbringing/environment commonly associated with RTS in article 2. All the articles are short, concise, and easy to read- take a look for yourself.

What I read there is not in any way the way my parents or my catholic upbringing taught me to believe.

I was talking to Magic Man that said that "God hears you when you pray" or "God loves yous" are religious indoctrination.

I doubt I would find in such artcile anything pointing out those phrases as harmful, would I?

 

[Enai de a lukal]

What I read there is not in any way the way my parents or my catholic upbringing taught me to believe.

You never said anything about the specific type of religious upbringing you happened to have- you asked for evidence that religion (not your religion, but religion in general) causes harm. I'd say that RTS qualifies.

 

[Me Myself]

You never said anything about the specific type of religious upbringing you happened to have- you asked for evidence that religion (not your religion, but religion in general) causes harm. I'd say that RTS qualifies.

RTS qualifies for the scenarios that would give someone RTS. The link while providing some things that make it "morelikely" give no percetages. In that sense, I dont knwo if more likely is one in ten thousands or one in a houndred or one in ten. Or one in two.

RTS certainly does not evidence in any way that raising your kids with your religion will be harmful to them. It evidences that raising kids with fear, lowering of their self esteem and capacity for accomplishments and oer specific things enumerated there cause harm.

Not any religion nor any religious upbringing.