Why pray?

[ChristineES]

Well, you gave me the impression that you talk to God just like you were talking to your best friend.

I didn't say that or insinuate that. I pray to talk to God, but I don't pray to have a chat with God about the color of dresses, my newest crochet project, or what I watched on TV last night.

 

[Windwalker]

Contemplative prayer is.

I would say even petitionary pray is, in the way that it focuses the mind and intention. Call that contemplative lite.

 

[Gambit]

I didn't say that or insinuate that. I pray to talk to God, but I don't pray to have a chat with God about the color of dresses, my newest crochet project, or what I watched on TV last night.

Do you ever make a supplication or petition to God? If so, why?

 

[Gambit]

I would say even petitionary pray is, in the way that it focuses the mind and intention. Call that contemplative lite.

I see petitionary prayer as focusing the mind and intention on the needs of the individual's ego, not on God.

 

[Treks]

Do you feel good when you pray?

When I prayed, yes, I did. It's a personal moment of focusing on the connection between yourself and Something Greater. It helps to share problems, responsibilities, cry out, share happiness, give thanks.

 

[Breathe]

Do you consider your relationship to the divine to be, more or less, like any other kind of personal relationship?

Other.

 

[Windwalker]

I see petitionary prayer as focusing the mind and intention on the needs of the individual's ego, not on God.

It can be, certainly. But it can also be focused on others, moving one out of seeking for themselves and their own ego needs and getting them in touch with their own compassion, which in effect moves them into knowing who they are beyond self-seeking ego needs. Doing that would hopefully lead to spiritual growth and maturity.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Why pray to God? More specifically, why engage in supplication (or petitioning)?

I've only ever been able to see two rational reasons for asking things of God:

- the petitioner is worried that the plan God already has might not be optimal, so he's providing God with information he thinks God might not already know in order to enable a better plan.

- the petitioner thinks God's plan is already optimal, but he wants God to undermine it for his benefit.

 

[Windwalker]

I've only ever been able to see two rational reasons for asking things of God:

- the petitioner is worried that the plan God already has might not be optimal, so he's providing God with information he thinks God might not already know in order to enable a better plan.

- the petitioner thinks God's plan is already optimal, but he wants God to undermine it for his benefit.

What about praying for others?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What about praying for others?

The motives might be better but the problems are the same, IMO.

Edit: actually, it sounds like you're talking about a straightup example of the first scenario I gave: you're informing God of the plight of others in the hopes that he'll correct it. Even if your motives are altruistic, if you think you're telling God something he already knows, why do it?

Billy Connolly has a bit in one of his standup routines where he talks about being at a football match next to a guy who kept shouting "play it wide! Play it wide!" at the field. In his routine, Billy mused about what the guy might've been trying to accomplish... as if the player would hear him, shout back "wide? Good idea! Thanks, mate!" and change his strategy.

To me, the idea of intercessionary prayer seems a lot like that. Whether you're shouting at the field because you've bet on the game or because you think a win would make some little kid in the hospital happy, it still presumes that you know how to play the game better than the professional player.

... of course, sports fans will still shout when they're watching the game on TV, so maybe something else is going on.

 

[Windwalker]

The motives might be better but the problems are the same, IMO.

Edit: actually, it sounds like you're talking about a straightup example of the first scenario I gave: you're informing God of the plight of others in the hopes that he'll correct it. Even if your motives are altruistic, if you think you're telling God something he already knows, why do it?

Billy Connolly has a bit in one of his standup routines where he talks about being at a football match next to a guy who kept shouting "play it wide! Play it wide!" at the field. In his routine, Billy mused about what the guy might've been trying to accomplish... as if the player would hear him, shout back "wide? Good idea! Thanks, mate!" and change his strategy.

To me, the idea of intercessionary prayer seems a lot like that. Whether you're shouting at the field because you've bet on the game or because you think a win would make some little kid in the hospital happy, it still presumes that you know how to play the game better than the professional player.

... of course, sports fans will still shout when they're watching the game on TV, so maybe something else is going on.

In the case of shouting play it wide, this is of course the person's ego in full swing. He is trying to control what happens for his own hopes and desires, calling upon God to do his will for him, in effect, like having a much greater reach though getting the deity to do it for himself. That's all ego, of course. What I'm talking about is if more along the lines of the prayer of a Bodhisattva, to pray for the benefit of others of out of heart and soul of pure compassion. This is to set aside ones own desire to control outcomes, and is rather to send out love for the sake of love itself, 'Not my will but thine'.

This type of prayer is not ego-bound whatsoever, and is as I mentioned in a previous post a form of focused meditation. Meditation is designed to move one out of the typical modes of self-seeking to find what is larger than the ego, or rather to find one's self in what is beyond the self-seeking mind.

 

[Sand Dancer]

For those who think God is a being who listens and responds, it's important. Prayer to me, now, is just having an attitude of gratitude for the things around me.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

In the case of shouting play it wide, this is of course the person's ego in full swing. He is trying to control what happens for his own hopes and desires, calling upon God to do his will for him, in effect, like having a much greater reach though getting the deity to do it for himself. That's all ego, of course.

Okay.

What I'm talking about is if more along the lines of the prayer of a Bodhisattva, to pray for the benefit of others of out of heart and soul of pure compassion. This is to set aside ones own desire to control outcomes, and is rather to send out love for the sake of love itself, 'Not my will but thine'.

I'm not sure how a prayer asking a god to do what he was planning to do anyway would be the sort of prayer described in the OP.

... or useful at all, frankly.

This type of prayer is not ego-bound whatsoever, and is as I mentioned in a previous post a form of focused meditation. Meditation is designed to move one out of the typical modes of self-seeking to find what is larger than the ego, or rather to find one's self in what is beyond the self-seeking mind.

Again, I'm not sure how you could consider meditating on what God (or "what is larger than the ego") wants in order to better align oneself with this to be the sort of petitioning prayer described in the OP.

 

[Jainarayan]

I'm not sure if I mentioned it or someone else did, but prayer can be for mindfulness also, especially if it's in the form of poetry (as many Ásatrú prayers are) or written by someone else. I've plucked many a poem and prayer to the Gods from Ásatrú internet sites. One I recite every day goes:

All-Father you gave me strength, may I use it;
You gave me courage, may I follow it;
You gave me wisdom, may I share it.

Gods and Goddesses, Aesir and Vanir, I thank you for the blessings you have given me.
I ask you to continue to bless me, and to help me face the decrees of the Norns with courage and honor.
I ask you to help me do what is best for my faith, for my folk, and for my family, this and every day.

These help keep me mindful of the Gods and some of the things I should be doing as Ásatrúar.

 

[Gambit]

I've only ever been able to see two rational reasons for asking things of God:

- the petitioner is worried that the plan God already has might not be optimal, so he's providing God with information he thinks God might not already know in order to enable a better plan.

- the petitioner thinks God's plan is already optimal, but he wants God to undermine it for his benefit.

I basically agree. But these "reasons" are irrational, not rational.

 

[Windwalker]

I'm not sure how a prayer asking a god to do what he was planning to do anyway would be the sort of prayer described in the OP.

... or useful at all, frankly.

You're starting with a theological definition of God when you say "he was planning to do anyway". Not everyone who prays to God has that particular idea of God in their head, imagining God in this way. This betrays an idea of predestination, a certain Cosmic-Determinism if you will. The prayer in the OP is supplication on the behalf of another, and one would imagine that it is not about changing the minds of the Greek Fates, but rather that to pray for another would be to intend a certain positivity, goodwill, love, creativity, etc, towards their benefit - whatever the outcome might be. That's very different than praying to manipulate the "Big Guy in the Sky" to do your will towards what you hope will happen.

Is it useful? Certainly. It is useful because it aligns the mind towards the benefit of others, working with the natural flow of things, rather than manipulating and controlling it for your own ends. To live life like this is frankly far healthier.

Again, I'm not sure how you could consider meditating on what God (or "what is larger than the ego") wants in order to better align oneself with this to be the sort of petitioning prayer described in the OP.

Certainly a prayer of "not my will but thine be done", is in fact for the benefit of others, it is in fact a prayer of supplication through self-surrender. If you give up yourself, your will to control, possess, and own, you are not thinking or praying for yourself, but for the benefit and well-being of others. That is a prayer of supplication. Letting go, is a major component of this, if not the very core itself.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I basically agree. But these "reasons" are irrational, not rational.

That depends on the assumed premises about God's nature and how prayer works. Maybe I should've said "potentially rational, given the right premises."

 

[Gambit]

That depends on the assumed premises about God's nature and how prayer works. Maybe I should've said "potentially rational, given the right premises."

Well, if God is omnipotent and omniscient (as most believers would argued), then it would be irrational to think that he needs our advice.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Well, if God is omnipotent and omniscient (as most believers would argued), then it would be irrational to think that he needs our advice.

I agree. I was trying to think of other perspectives, e.g. a polytheist who doesn't believe his gods are omniscient or have a perfect plan (or any plan at all, possibly).

 

[ChristineES]

Do you ever make a supplication or petition to God? If so, why?

Praying is a way of communicating with God, how a person does it and what he or she says is personal (except in public prayer at Church, in which we ask Him to guide us and all that.