Why was Jesus not educated...?

[Willamena]

So this is where my confusion comes in, if this religion is based upon this man and his story and we may have it wrong. How much else is wrong that is being told....

The religion (as with others) is based around the mythology. Can't have that "wrong".

 

[dogsgod]

Jesus of the gospels supported an entourage of at least twelve or more. He drew huge crowds where ever he went, that in itself spells money, he was no stranger in any town and he had wealthy connections such as Joseph of Arimathea. The wine flowed, expensive oils were poured on him, I think an argument could be made for the pampered life he and his direct followers lived.

 

[dogsgod]

The idea of Jesus as Son of God came long after the historical Jesus - and even possibly the writing of the earliest Gospels.

The epistles predate the gospels and they make reference to Jesus as the Son of God.

 

[dogsgod]

That's the point of historical Jesus studies - to isolate as best as possible an hisorical Jesus from its mythical shell.

That is to say: the historical Jesus is encased in later myths, and we can extract an historical Jesus from these myths by identifying and removing the later elements. Then, we can compare what's left with other historical models of ancient figures to see what our historical Jesus is most like: a Cynic teacher, a rabbi, a Pharisee, and so on [these models can overlap].

And what makes it all necessary to assume this historical Jesus? The story is what it is, why look for what it is not?

 

[Willamena]

And what makes it all necessary to assume this historical Jesus? The story is what it is, why look for what it is not?

That's as much as saying that history has no significance. Historians would likely disagree.

 

[Oberon]

I am asking if he was real why did he not record his life? In fact why did no one, while he was alive...?

Do the words "oral culture" mean something to you? What do we have written by Socrates?

 

[dogsgod]

That's as much as saying that history has no significance. Historians would likely disagree.

It is of historical significance and an understatement to say that Jews wrote mythologies. It is also of historical significance that no one noticed or cared to write about this supposed historical Jesus while he was alive. It's also of historical significance that those on this quest for the historical Jesus have little to go on.

 

[Midnight Pete]

Jesus of the gospels supported an entourage of at least twelve or more. He drew huge crowds where ever he went, that in itself spells money, he was no stranger in any town and he had wealthy connections such as Joseph of Arimathea. The wine flowed, expensive oils were poured on him, I think an argument could be made for the pampered life he and his direct followers lived.

Pampered life? :areyoucra

Jesus did not live a pampered life. Had he lived a pampered life, that whole line about the eye of the needle would have sounded pretty hollow. Think about it. God could have chosen any woman to be Jesus' mother. Anyone, of any walk of life. Rich or poor. I don't think it was any accident that the Saviour was born in a stable, which was the 1st century equivalent of being born in a parking garage or supply room at Staples.

 

[Oberon]

It is of historical significance and an understatement to say that Jews wrote mythologies.

So did the greeks and romans. That doesn't mean we should discount everything written by Thudydides, Herodotus, Pliny, etc.

It is also of historical significance that no one noticed or cared to write about this supposed historical Jesus while he was alive.

And it is of even more historical significance that Jesus lived during a period of high illiteracy in a primarily oral culture in a relatively obscure setting and limited interactions with the educated elite who normally wrote about living people (this was typically in done in letters. Lives or biograhpies were written after someone was dead). It would be very strange to have someone writing about Jesus while he was alive, given the setting.

It's also of historical significance that those on this quest for the historical Jesus have little to go on.

More to go on than with most figures. We have more to go on than for, to name a few, Apollonius, Euripides, arguably Socrates, Antiphon, countless names just referenced here and there in letter, graffiti, and histories, Pythagoras, Solon, and so forth. There are very few figures from history who have four full lives and many many references in letters written within a few generations of their death. How many can you name who aren't emperors?

 

[Willamena]

It is also of historical significance that no one noticed or cared to write about this supposed historical Jesus while he was alive.

Prove it.

 

[dogsgod]

Prove it.

If some one did write of him it is not only lost, but no one ever referred to it. Philo wrote of a first born Son of God, was in Jerusalem at or near the supposed time of Jesus' crucifixion, wrote about struggles between Jews and Pontius Pilate but failed to notice this Jesus character.

 

[Oberon]

If some one did write of him it is not only lost, but no one ever referred to it. Philo wrote of a first born Son of God, was in Jerusalem at or near the supposed time of Jesus' crucifixion, wrote about struggles between Jews and Pontius Pilate but failed to notice this Jesus character.

He also failed to write about Paul (as did Josephus) or John the Baptist (who is mentioned by Josephus). What's your point?

 

[MW0082]

Do the words "oral culture" mean something to you? What do we have written by Socrates?

Socrates came along way before Jesus, besides your missing the point. He could walk on water and raise the dead but had no language??? Smell the fish,...?

 

[Oberon]

Socrates came along way before Jesus, besides your missing the point.

Yet Socrates knew people who could write. He was educated, important, living among literate people. And yet we have nothing. Contrast with Jesus, who lived and worked among the illiterate poor, and it is a suprise he didn't write anything? As for coming long after Socrates, what difference does that make? Do you think literacy rates had changed much? Or that Galilee was filled with more literate people than Athens? Or that the disdain for the written word compared to word of mouth had changed?

He could walk on water and raise the dead but had no language??? Smell the fish,...?

Again, miracles and myths are in lots of biographies, from the life of Pythagoras to that of Apollonius. Myth in histories doesn't make them worthless as histories. It means that the ancient genre of history simply wasn't as reliable.

Most of the people in Jesus' world couldn't read, and even those who could usually valued the spoken word over the written, which was often mistrusted. The best way for Jesus to pass on his message was the same way John the Baptist, Socrates, the early Rabbis, and countless others had and would later: gather followers and teach orally.

 

[MW0082]

Yet Socrates knew people who could write. He was educated, important, living among literate people. And yet we have nothing. Contrast with Jesus, who lived and worked among the illiterate poor, and it is a suprise he didn't write anything? As for coming long after Socrates, what difference does that make? Do you think literacy rates had changed much? Or that Galilee was filled with more literate people than Athens? Or that the disdain for the written word compared to word of mouth had changed?


Again, miracles and myths are in lots of biographies, from the life of Pythagoras to that of Apollonius. Myth in histories doesn't make them worthless as histories. It means that the ancient genre of history simply wasn't as reliable.

Most of the people in Jesus' world couldn't read, and even those who could usually valued the spoken word over the written, which was often mistrusted. The best way for Jesus to pass on his message was the same way John the Baptist, Socrates, the early Rabbis, and countless others had and would later: gather followers and teach orally.

Literecy rates have changed...

and I find this to be a lame excuse for the religious fanatics..... Obviously Jesus never existed...

 

[Willamena]

If some one did write of him it is not only lost, but no one ever referred to it. Philo wrote of a first born Son of God, was in Jerusalem at or near the supposed time of Jesus' crucifixion, wrote about struggles between Jews and Pontius Pilate but failed to notice this Jesus character.

I guess we'll have to take your word for it.

 

[Oberon]

Literecy rates have changed...

Really? You've studied literacy rates in the 5th century compared to the first? Are we talking across the world, or are you comparing the roman world against the greek? Or attica compared to galilee?

and I find this to be a lame excuse for the religious fanatics.....

I'm not a religious fanatic. I do find it pretty lame when people make absolute statements like

Obviously Jesus never existed...

when they clearly haven't studied the topic in question.

 

[MW0082]

Really? You've studied literacy rates in the 5th century compared to the first? Are we talking across the world, or are you comparing the roman world against the greek? Or attica compared to galilee?



I'm not a religious fanatic. I do find it pretty lame when people make absolute statements like



when they clearly haven't studied the topic in question.

Says you....

I have yet to see anything that can undoubtly prove me wrong, so I guess it's just YOUR word at thats all...

 

[dogsgod]

I guess we'll have to take your word for it.

Don't take my word for it. Research it your self. wiki the historical Jesus, it's a start.

 

[Oberon]

Says you....

I have yet to see anything that can undoubtly prove me wrong, so I guess it's just YOUR word at thats all...

None so blind as those that will not see.

Proof is for math and logic, not the sciences or humanities. Also, this is a forum. I could summarize work on the topic for you, as in my post here, and I can point you to all types of scholarship, but as long as you want to trust only what websites you can find to support the view you wanted in the first place, then that's what you will do.