ok so if we are going to equate choice with love
why is it a loving parent would never put their child in harms way?
if you tell your child whom you know is not capable of understanding the dire consequences of their actions and expect them to understand, you are ultimately responsible for that child.
if your argument is that a loving god provided a choice, i would argue god knew they didn't understand the consequences of their choice, therefore god is responsible for a & e's choice.
besides the fact that there was a choice (more like an ultimatum really) to begin with indicates boundaries; love is boundless, freedom is boundless.
Again, I would argue that by birthing a child into this world you are putting it into harms way. The best way to protect a child from this world is to never bring it into this world - but then the child will never have life, it can never love or laugh or play or be joyful. A parent cannot 100% protect its child because the child can eventually do whatever it wants - the same goes with God, He will not 100% protect anyone in this life because He would be violating our free will - we can do whatever we want in this life.
We will have to agree to disagree on the choice/ultimatum issue because I read the text and understand that Adam and Eve did understand their choice AND the consequences of both sides of the coin.
Love is NOT boundless - love involves discipline and boundaries when necessary, especially parental love.
disease, you say is the result of original sin. once sin enters the world sin kills everything. lets look at sin real closely here. knowledge is sin.
Knowledge is sin? I think I know where you are getting that from, but please explain. If you are going to say what I think you are going to say I disagree.
we cannot help but know things, therefore we have no other choice than to sin...
a rule man made up.
I disagree. The more we talk the more we disagree
but that's ok. Every time we are faced with sin we have a choice. No one is ever forced to tell a lie or commit adultery or be greedy or say terrible things to someone or kill a person - it is always a choice.
once again this is a rule man made up to make sense of these exact things.
are you saying that it is possible for one to live without sin...?
Yes, Jesus did, but he is the only one and can be the only one - living a sin free life requires total dedication and concentration and determination - something we humans just can't muster ON OUR OWN. We need God - the Holy Spirit to be specific - which Jesus had. And we are not born with the Holy Spirit, we have to choose it to receive it, just as we have to choose a college education to receive it.
think about that for a second, "freely choose". i see this as an inaccurate way of explaining gods love. 1st off when someone is free they do not acknowledge ultimatums...everything is yes. watch a baby figure the world out...anything goes... 2ndly an ultimatum isn't a choice and it certainly isn't free because it manipulates a certain response. 3rdly how could a & e understand the ultimatum if they didn't understand choice?
1) Well everything in life can be yes - bestiality, rape, murder and everything under the sun - is possible. That doesn't make it right, but we are able to do all horrible things.
2) Define an ultimatum. Are there not two options to choose from?
3) I think they understood choice, to assume that seems like reading something into the text. If they didn't understand choice, why would God present them with a number of choices - Adam named the animals, they both had a ton of different trees to eat from - of course they understood choice.
this is the god of the bible....
so are you saying a parent does these things based on the hope that their love for their child is reciprocated and if it's not, have nothing to do with them? or do they do it because there is no other choice but to do these things because of their love for their child in spite of the possibility that their child doesn't return their love...a loving parent will always love their child...no time limits involved, no ultimatums and it certainly doesn't depend on it being reciprocated
and if they didn't come back to him he would have nothing to do with them...
god is not a loving parent....god is full of ultimatums
Well the parent isn't perfect and the parent doesn't grant eternal life. If the child hates the parent, curses the parent, fights against the parent and is unwilling to listen to, compromise or love the parent - the parent would distance themselves from the child - they would still love them.
Also a parent is not a judge. God is a loving parent because He provides structure, hope, healthy boundaries, guidance and so much more. You are free to think that but I do not see it in the text anywhere - I look at the text and see the opposite of what you see.
