Again, I would argue that by birthing a child into this world you are putting it into harms way. The best way to protect a child from this world is to never bring it into this world - but then the child will never have life, it can never love or laugh or play or be joyful. A parent cannot 100% protect its child because the child can eventually do whatever it wants - the same goes with God, He will not 100% protect anyone in this life because He would be violating our free will - we can do whatever we want in this life.
you are side stepping the point...
if you are aware a child doesn't understand something are you going to hold them accountable for not knowing?
We will have to agree to disagree on the choice/ultimatum issue because I read the text and understand that Adam and Eve did understand their choice AND the consequences of both sides of the coin.
let me ask you this, how is one to understand what "no" means if the knowledge of good and evil is not something that person isn't aware of?
Love is NOT boundless - love involves discipline and boundaries when necessary, especially parental love.
you yourself said you are not tying your wife to your side...
the love you have for your children does not depend on it being returned...
that is what i mean by boundless.
Knowledge is sin? I think I know where you are getting that from, but please explain. If you are going to say what I think you are going to say I disagree.
god didn't want them to have knowledge...or determine what is a moral choice for themselves.
I disagree. The more we talk the more we disagree
but that's ok. Every time we are faced with sin we have a choice. No one is ever forced to tell a lie or commit adultery or be greedy or say terrible things to someone or kill a person - it is always a choice.
i don't lie, i don't steal, never committed adultery and i'm quite generous..and no i have never killed anyone...i would guess that my personal moral sense is pretty on track with a lot of other people.
Yes, Jesus did, but he is the only one and can be the only one - living a sin free life requires total dedication and concentration and determination - something we humans just can't muster ON OUR OWN. We need God - the Holy Spirit to be specific - which Jesus had. And we are not born with the Holy Spirit, we have to choose it to receive it, just as we have to choose a college education to receive it.
i don't see how you can say we cant figure morality out on our own.
if we can use our own personal moral sense to distinguish bad behavior done in the name of religion, what the purpose of religion?
1) Well everything in life can be yes - bestiality, rape, murder and everything under the sun - is possible. That doesn't make it right, but we are able to do all horrible things.
well 1st you have to admit that all those things cannot be inforced if we are to thrive as a society. laws against these things are a must if we are to have a sense of solidarity...that's pretty obvious. we call that sort of behavior deviant behavior, meaning this behavior deviates from what we would call normal acceptable behavior...
determined by our common moral sense, go figure...
2) Define an ultimatum. Are there not two options to choose from?
by definition it implies the
threat of serious penalties if the terms are not accepted. a final offer. it is a way to manipulate a certain response...
i would say your usage of the word
choose is used very loosely.
lets say i have a gun pointing at your head, my ultimatum would be
do what i say and i'll let you live, you call that a choice?
3) I think they understood choice, to assume that seems like reading something into the text. If they didn't understand choice, why would God present them with a number of choices - Adam named the animals, they both had a ton of different trees to eat from - of course they understood choice.
but those choices were boundless.
i decided to sit on a different chair at the diner table..if someone told me not to sit on a certain chair but failed to tell me why i couldn't, i might just sit on it to see what happens...only to experience the chair falling apart because the glue hadn't dried...did i know why i shouldn't sit there? no, because it was never explained to me why...but thats an entirely different direction i wanted to go...but interesting nonetheless.
god told them here is a line i do not want you to cross...they were free to choose the names and to eat a banana whenever they wanted...but once a line was in play they were not free is the point.
Well the parent isn't perfect and the parent doesn't grant eternal life.
the parent doesn't use an ultimatum of death if their child doesn't obey either...
If the child hates the parent, curses the parent, fights against the parent and is unwilling to listen to, compromise or love the parent - the parent would distance themselves from the child - they would still love them.
obviously god wouldn't...he would turn his back on them...which is how i understand hell as...being eternally separated from god.
Also a parent is not a judge. God is a loving parent because He provides structure, hope, healthy boundaries, guidance and so much more. You are free to think that but I do not see it in the text anywhere - I look at the text and see the opposite of what you see.
god is a judge...and he holds people accountable for not knowing...
pretzel logic.
