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Why would God's ultimate power come with ultimate responsibility?

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Oh, no?

God creates Eden and puts his new favorite pet in it to tend the garden. His pet gets lonely, so God creates the entire animal kingdom in an effort to find a suitable companion - no dice, so God removes a rib instead.

Said companion ruins the paradise and creates a rift between God and His creation - by taking bad advice from a talking reptile.

I'd say at this point, things are pretty sideways. Humanity has been separated from God, and needs "atonement,"or, if you prefer, "at-one-ment."

So... in an attempt to fix things, God decides to start over; rid His creation of all evil by drowning it, save for one righteous family - Noah, his wife, three sons, and their wives.

Does it work? Of course not. No sooner does Noah ride out the storm then he gets utterly blitzed on wine, and one of his sons breaks taboos by witnessing his old man in his drunken nakedness.

Needless to say, humanity is still separated from God; the problem of evil still exists, so things are still looking sideways.

New Plan! Pick a righteous man (Abraham), test his faith by asking him to sacrifice one of his sons, and upon passing the test (stopping at the crucial moment), elevate him as a leader of a new nation which will serve as an example - morally, politically, and militarily - of His power to the rest of the world... but only so long as they follow His laws to the letter - Every. Last. One.

Well, nations rise... and they fall... and on occasion, they get their posteriors handed to them by larger, more powerful nations - Israel got it twice: First by the Babylonians, then by the Romans. Which of the 613 Commandments did they not follow? Kind of a moot point now...

...because things went thoroughly sideways.

So, around 4 BC, He goes with Plan D (or is it E? Hard to keep track) by sending His Son to die as a sacrifice for all the sins of the world.

Did it work? Hard to say; the world looks at least as dysfunctional and sideways as it ever was...

Although personally, I wouldn't have it any other way... "The newspapers of Utopia. . . must be terribly dull." ~ Arthur C. Clarke.
I do not believe in the Garden of Eden and Adam and Eve and original sin so I don't believe there was ever any need for atonement.
I do not believe most of what is in the Bible is actual history that took place.
I do not believe that God ever drowned anyone in a worldwide flood.
The OT is a concoction of anthropomorphisms about what God thought and did and I don't believe that represents the real God.

By now you might have guessed that I am not a Christian, and I thank God for that.

I do believe that the problem of evil exists in this world and that most people are separated from God, but that is not a problem for God.

The reason I said that nothing ever goes sideways for God is because evil and separation from God only affects humans, it has no effect upon God.
God needs nobody's belief or allegiance because God is transcendent.

“Regard thou the one true God as One Who is apart from, and immeasurably exalted above, all created things. The whole universe reflecteth His glory, while He is Himself independent of, and transcendeth His creatures.” Gleanings, p. 166
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Because it is not a logically sound argument. :)
The movie could have ended in any number if ways, and however it ended is how God knew it would end.
What is illogical about that?
What caused the movie to end as it does, could be based on many things, and doesn't necessarily have to be a single thing, it could very well be one thing causing another. Not really any different than you kicking a football that then hits a window that then shatters and falls on the street, that then punctures the wheels of a car, that then crashes etc. Just replace all these with atoms or whatever, one thing leads to another, based on whatever sat it in motion, so it could be God driving it, or he might not care about it so whatever plays out is fine by him. This is where the discussion would probably turn into whether God is an intervening one or not.

The point is, that if you use the string of events as I wrote above and God knew all this beforehand, then this string of events has to play out exactly as it did. You could not choose to not kick the ball, the ball had no other option than breaking the window etc.

So yes, I don't see how the Universe with an all-knowing being like God, could be anything other than deterministic and in that case, we would be "robots" without free will, merely an illusion that we have it.
I see where the block is in your mind but I cannot fix it. :(

The point is, that if you use the string of events as I wrote above and God knew all this beforehand, then this string of events will play out exactly as it did, but if humans had chosen to do something differently or if something had happened differently then God would have known that it would play out differently.

In short, whatever happens in this world God knows what it will be, but what God knows does not restrict the possibilities in any way.
No, because that is backwards.

What you are doing is making the choice and then claiming that God would know it. But that doesn't work. Because God already knows whether you will jump or not before you do. If we go with what you are saying, you are basically claiming that your choice is what drives God's knowledge in which case the obvious conclusion would be that God doesn't really know anything.
You are getting closer to what is actually true, nit exact, but close.

What I am doing is making the choice and then claiming that God has always known what my choice would be. God already knows whether I will jump or not before I do but I still have the choice to jump or not to jump. Whatever choice I make will be the choice that God already knew I would make.

Yes, I am basically claiming that my choice is what determines God's knowledge of what I will choose.
But that does not mean that God does not know anything. God knows everything, including what I will choose, but God's knowledge does not determine what I will choose, I determine that by choosing it. God knows what I will choose because God is all-knowing.
The reason is that there are only 2 contradictive options, either you jump or you don't, one prevents the other from being true.
Yes, it has to be one or the other, jump or don't jump, Whichever one it is will be what God knew it would be, because God is all-knowing.
To really flesh it out and put it on a timeline, from the beginning when God knows:
1. God knows that you will jump
2. You go to the edge of the building.
3. At this point you should jump because that is what God knows, yet following what you say, you choose to not jump.
4. Either we have to say that God was wrong, which is not possible, so now we just change what God knew at the beginning instead. (1) God knows that you won't jump but that doesn't make sense, if God knew you wouldn't jump, (1) would have been that, to begin with. Therefore God didn't know and you simply decided what God knew in step 3.
More correctly stated:

To really flesh it out and put it on a timeline, from the beginning when God knows:
1. God knows that you will jump
2. You go to the edge of the building.
3. At this point you should jump because that is what God knows,

No, I do not choose to jump because God knows I will choose to jump. I will choose to jump because I wanted to jump.
If I had no chosen not to jump then God would have known that I would choose not to jump.

4. Either we have to say that God was wrong, which is not possible, so now we just change what God knew at the beginning instead. (1) God knows that you won't jump but that doesn't make sense, if God knew you wouldn't jump, (1) would have been that, to begin with. Therefore God didn't know and you simply decided what God knew in step 3.

It was what God knew at the beginning.
If I had chosen to jump, God would have always known I would choose to jump.
If I had chosen not to jump, God would have always known I would choose not to jump.

God did know and I simply decided to do what God knew I would do. Again, I did not choose to jump because God knew I would choose to jump. I chose to jump because I wanted to jump. God knew I would want to jump because God is all-knowing.
You seem to ignore time in your logic, and that God just magically always had the correct answer based on your choice, but that is not the claim, the claim is that God is all-knowing, and therefore you can't change what he knows without him not being all-knowing.

Therefore whatever God knows, even if he isn't the cause of it, is how it will turn out. And again, since he knows before you, you can't change what he knows.
Whatever God knows, even if he isn't the cause of it, is how it will turn out.

I cannot change what God knows, but I can choose what I want to do, and whatever that is will be what God has always known I would choose to do. Nothing is being changed. Apparently you have this idea that it was decided by God what I would do from the beginning of time and that is static, but that is not the case.

Time has nothing to do with this. God always has always known what will happen because God is all-knowing, but what will happen is based on my choice.
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
You are getting closer to what is actually true, nit exact, but close.

What I am doing is making the choice and then claiming that God has always known what my choice would be. God already knows whether I will jump or not before I do but I still have the choice to jump or not to jump. Whatever choice I make will be the choice that God already knew I would make.

Yes, I am basically claiming that my choice is what determines God's knowledge of what I will choose.
But that does not mean that God does not know anything. God knows everything, including what I will choose, but God's knowledge does not determine what I will choose, I determine that by choosing it. God knows what I will choose because God is all-knowing.
But in that case, God is powerless. He has to adjust to everything around him, it isn't simply enough for him to just adjust to all human choices, all the things that we interact with, including every little atom God also has to adjust to. And it would have to apply to anything, if a star goes supernova, then there is a risk that humans can observe it, therefore God also has to adjust to that.

He is nothing but an observer or collector of knowledge :D

It was what God knew at the beginning.
If I had chosen to jump, God would have always known I would choose to jump.
If I had chosen not to jump, God would have always known I would choose not to jump.

God did know and I simply decided to do what God knew I would do. Again, I did not choose to jump because God knew I would choose to jump. I chose to jump because I wanted to jump. God knew I would want to jump because God is all-knowing.
That is why I'm saying it is backwards. If you should write it like I did, yours would go like this, to make any logical sense:

1. You go to the edge
2. You choose to not jump
3. Therefore God knows.

God has no knowledge. What you then do, because you have to fit the God is all-knowing in. Is that you magically insert another point before the others afterwards:

0. God already knew. (Magically appears)
1. ....
2. ..

This doesn't make sense, either God knew it or he didn't

0. God already knew. (Magically appears)
1. You go to the edge
2. You choose to not jump
3. Therefore God knows.

Points 0 and 3 have to match. They can't just magically change based on what you choose. There has to be consistency in the argument.
If God knows in point 0, then it would be the same in point 3, and given God's knowledge surpasses everything, then point 2 has to also match point 0, otherwise God is not all-knowing.

I truly don't understand how you can make this add up, without applying some kind of magic that doesn't make sense? :D

I cannot change what God knows, but I can choose what I want to do, and whatever that is will be what God has always known I would choose to do. Nothing is being changed.
It is because you as a human are restricted to following a timeline.

So you have to fill in the information accordingly

This has to be the first thing you add:
0. (God knows something - What is it God knows?)

1. You doing something. (This is the event or situation you are in)

2. You need to make a choice based on the situation/event you are in. (Point 1)

3. This is the final result and correct answer, but this has to match what God knows in point 0.

How can you add point 2 before 0? And still, maintain that God is all-knowing? And if you add 0 before 2, then how can 2 be anything other than 0, if you can't change it as you say?

Try to do it in hand, write down point zero and set it to: "You won't jump" and never change it, because that is what you agree you can't and then fill in the rest of the points, you will not be able to jump.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
If this were true, then everything that exists would reflect on God's character.
People keep adjusting their Gods to better fit into the world they see around them. The God of the Bible didn't fit in all that well, so the Baha'i prophet came up with a better way to fit God into the picture. Obviously, their God still doesn't fit all that well either.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
If this were true, then everything that exists would reflect on God's character.
God does not have a character since God is not a human. God has attributes.

Everything that exists in the natural world reflects on how God decided to create the world.

Everything we see in this world exists reflects on the character of man, since man has dominion over the earth.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
God does not have a character since God is not a human. God has attributes.

I'm not playing this game with you again.

Everything that exists in the natural world reflects on how God decided to create the world.

Everything we see in this world exists reflects on the character of man, since man has dominion over the earth.

False dichotomy. We are part of nature as much as anything else is.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I'm not playing this game with you again.
Nor am I playing the God blame game with you anymore.
It is completely illogical to blame God for what humans choose to do, as well as unfair.
What do you get out of blaming God for what humans are responsible for?

Back to what I said: Nothing ever goes sideways for God.
Then you said: If this were true, then everything that exists would reflect on God's character.

Do you know what I meant when I said that nothing ever goes sideways for God?

I meant that God is transcendent and independent of His creatures, so nothing that happens in this earth affects God.
It also means that God cannot be caught off guard since God knows everything that's happening in this world.

What does the slang term sideways mean?

When something is supposed to be going forward and then is interrupted and flanked by unexpected issues that prevent it from doing so , it's gone sideways.Nov 18, 2020

Where did the phrase referring to a situation going sideways ...
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Nor am I playing the God blame game with you anymore.
It is completely illogical to blame God for what humans choose to do, as well as unfair.
What do you get out of blaming God for what humans are responsible for?

I'm not blaming God for anything; I'm pointing out irrationalities in your arguments.


Back to what I said: Nothing ever goes sideways for God.
Then you said: If this were true, then everything that exists would reflect on God's character.

Do you know what I meant when I said that nothing ever goes sideways for God?
A normal meaning would have been that everything is always as God intended.

... but since you generally don't like to use terms in a normal way, I have no idea what you meant.



I meant that God is transcendent and independent of His creatures, so nothing that happens in this earth affects God.
It also means that God cannot be caught off guard since God knows everything that's happening in this world.

IOW, God's failures are not God's problem.

A... unique take on things.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I'm not blaming God for anything; I'm pointing out irrationalities in your arguments.
And I'm pointing out irrationalities in your arguments.
Blaming God for anything that humans choose to do is patently illogical.
A normal meaning would have been that everything is always as God intended.

... but since you generally don't like to use terms in a normal way, I have no idea what you meant.
No, everything is not as God intended, everything is as God has allowed it to be.
God did not intend for Mr. Smith to kill his wife but God allowed it because God honors human free will.
IOW, God's failures are not God's problem.

A... unique take on things.
God never fails. Only humans fail.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
And I'm pointing out irrationalities in your arguments.
Blaming God for anything that humans choose to do is patently illogical.
It's not illogical; you just don't like it.

No, everything is not as God intended, everything is as God has allowed it to be.

Then God has allowed things to "go sideways."

The world either reflects God's intent or it doesn't.


God did not intend for Mr. Smith to kill his wife but God allowed it because God honors human free will.

So your God is incapable of taking human free will into account?

God never fails. Only humans fail.
Sure.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Then God has allowed things to "go sideways."
God has allowed humans do choose to do what they want to do.
Give me one good reason why God should intervene to stop humans from doing what they want to do.
The world either reflects God's intent or it doesn't.
The way God created the world was intentional so it reflects God's intent,.
Sending Messengers to guide humanity to the straight path reflects God's intent.
Nothing else in the world reflects God's intent.

What we see in the world reflects human intent because it is humans who have intentions and carry them out.
So your God is incapable of taking human free will into account?
Of course God takes it into account, but what do you expect Him to do about it?
Why would God give humans free will and then override it by stopping humans from doing what they choose to do? That makes no logical sense.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
God has allowed humans do choose to do what they want to do.
Give me one good reason why God should intervene to stop humans from doing what they want to do.

There isn't one. Obviously, the wisest and benevolent option for God is to act as if he doesn't exist... right?


The way God created the world was intentional so it reflects God's intent,.
Sending Messengers to guide humanity to the straight path reflects God's intent.
Nothing else in the world reflects God's intent.

Your last sentence contradicts the previous two.

What we see in the world reflects human intent because it is humans who have intentions and carry them out.

But free will is only a matter of deciding whether to act on our will, so if your God were real, those intentions would be entirely within the scope of God's control.


Of course God takes it into account, but what do you expect Him to do about it?
Why would God give humans free will and then override it by stopping humans from doing what they choose to do? That makes no logical sense.

It's not about stopping anything.

An analogy from my own professional life: even though car drivers are all humans with free will, we can forecast their actions well enough to predict how many lanes a road needs.

When 6 lanes' worth of traffic tries to squeeze into 2 lanes, a traffic jam happens. In this case, we don't say "all those drivers have free will! The traffic jam isn't our fault!" It is the fault of the transportation planners: they should have been able to see that 6 lanes were necessary, but only provided 2. The traffic jam is the fault of the designer even though every element making up the jam was acting according to free will.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
There isn't one. Obviously, the wisest and benevolent option for God is to act as if he doesn't exist... right?
The wisest and benevolent option for God is to provide divine guidance for humans by sending His Messengers to earth.
God demonstrates that He exists whenever God sends Messengers to represent Him.
Your last sentence contradicts the previous two.
How so?
But free will is only a matter of deciding whether to act on our will, so if your God were real, those intentions would be entirely within the scope of God's control.
God could control human free will, but so what? Why should God control humans when humans have the ability to control themselves?
That really is the whole point behind free will, humans learning from their choices. If God controlled our choices we would never learn from our successes or failures.
It's not about stopping anything.

An analogy from my own professional life: even though car drivers are all humans with free will, we can forecast their actions well enough to predict how many lanes a road needs.

When 6 lanes' worth of traffic tries to squeeze into 2 lanes, a traffic jam happens. In this case, we don't say "all those drivers have free will! The traffic jam isn't our fault!" It is the fault of the transportation planners: they should have been able to see that 6 lanes were necessary, but only provided 2. The traffic jam is the fault of the designer even though every element making up the jam was acting according to free will.
So is your point that God should have had the foresight not to give humans free will because God knew what would happen?

Your analogy dos not hold water because the transportation planners could have built the road with 6 lanes instead of 2 lanes and thaht would have made traffic flow more smoothly. What alternative is there to human free will? With no ability to choose and act on their choices humanity would come to a complete standstill.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
So is your point that God should have had the foresight not to give humans free will because God knew what would happen?

No. My point is that:

- human "free will" choices are predictable.
- the consequences of free will depend on lots of stuff that has nothing to do with free will.

If a traffic jam happens, it isn't just because two thousand people exercised their free will by being on the same stretch of road at the same time; it's because of that AND because the road didn't have the capacity to handle that traffic. And the decision about how many lanes the road would have wasn't a matter of free will for any of the drivers.

I'm not talking about messing with anyone's free will. I'm talking about recognizing what those people's free will choice will be and deciding whether or not to accommodate their choice.
Your analogy dos not hold water because the transportation planners could have built the road with 6 lanes instead of 2 lanes and thaht would have made traffic flow more smoothly. What alternative is there to human free will? With no ability to choose and act on their choices humanity would come to a complete standstill.

You missed my point. I'm not talking about alternatives to free will. Please read more carefully.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
- human "free will" choices are predictable.
I do not think that is always the case.
- the consequences of free will depend on lots of stuff that has nothing to do with free will.

If a traffic jam happens, it isn't just because two thousand people exercised their free will by being on the same stretch of road at the same time; it's because of that AND because the road didn't have the capacity to handle that traffic. And the decision about how many lanes the road would have wasn't a matter of free will for any of the drivers.
True, a lot of what happens in this world is the result of the interaction of choices made by many different people, choices which affect each other.
One person can make a choice that limits the free will choices of other people.
I'm not talking about messing with anyone's free will. I'm talking about recognizing what those people's free will choice will be and deciding whether or not to accommodate their choice.
If you are talking about God recognizing what those people's free will choice will be and deciding whether or not to allow them to choose that would be messing with their free will.
 

Hawkins

Well-Known Member
The following is a post from an atheist I was chatting with on another forum. I told him I would post it here to get other opinions.

Nothing you said addresses that with ultimate power comes ultimate responsibility. The only argument you could make is that God is either not all powerful, not all knowing, or not perfectly good. Which is it? The badly written, badly edited, contradictory, book Christians follow makes no sense to anyone who's read it that can think. Heck you don't even have anything written about your God from the people who met him. So use logic, you can't have infinite power and not be responsible for everything.

responsibility
something that it is your job or duty to deal with:
responsibility

You missed the big picture.

God is to build an eternity we call heaven. Responisbility is,

There's no evil there in Heaven.
Evil is fully displayed here on earth, and will be removed lawfully/legally by means of Law (for angels and humans alike) and Covenant (for humans but not angels). His responsibility is remove the unqualified such that a Heaven can be a Heaven.

The problem of humans is, they don't know the big picture as a result of the "crafty snake" effect. They hop for science but failed to realize that the Bible is already the best way for humans (ancient humans especially) to convey a truth. It's rather a prophecy on "Tree of Knowledge vs. Word of God". Adam and Even chose to lean on Knowledge instead of the words from God. Humans are so predictable!
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
There's no evil there in Heaven.
Evil is fully displayed here on earth, and will be removed lawfully/legally by means of Law (for angels and humans alike) and Covenant (for humans but not angels). His responsibility is remove the unqualified such that a Heaven can be a Heaven.
There is no evil in Heaven because evil is the result of human free will and the ability for people to make evil choices.
That kind of free will will not exist in Heaven.

God does not remove people from Heaven, people prevent themselves from getting to Heaven by their beliefs and actions.
I do not believe that God punishes us, I believe we punish ourselves, and as a result we fail to receive the rewards of Heaven.

“He who shall accept and believe, shall receive his reward; and he who shall turn away, shall receive none other than his own punishment.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 339
The problem of humans is, they don't know the big picture as a result of the "crafty snake" effect. They hop for science but failed to realize that the Bible is already the best way for humans (ancient humans especially) to convey a truth. It's rather a prophecy on "Tree of Knowledge vs. Word of God". Adam and Even chose to lean on Knowledge instead of the words from God. Humans are so predictable!
In ancient times, the Bible may have been the best way to convey God's truth, but times have changed and more scripture has been revealed by God to humanity since the Bible was recorded, so the Bible is not the best way now, Imo.
 
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Trailblazer

Veteran Member
But in that case, God is powerless. He has to adjust to everything around him, it isn't simply enough for him to just adjust to all human choices, all the things that we interact with, including every little atom God also has to adjust to. And it would have to apply to anything, if a star goes supernova, then there is a risk that humans can observe it, therefore God also has to adjust to that.
I said that my choice is what determines God's knowledge of what I will choose.
I did not mean that God has to wait until I jump in order to know that I will jump.
What I meant was that whatever I choose will be what God has always known I would choose.

Why do you think that God do powerless or has to adjust everything from what I said?
He is nothing but an observer or collector of knowledge:D
God is an observer but H might b doing more than only observing. We cannot know what God is doing.
God is not a collector of knowledge. God does not need to collect knowledge because God already knows everything. That is what it mans to be all-knowing.
That is why I'm saying it is backwards. If you should write it like I did, yours would go like this, to make any logical sense:

1. You go to the edge
2. You choose to not jump
3. Therefore God knows.
The correct list is as follows:

1. I go to the edge
2. I choose to not jump
3. God knew I would not choose to jump before I chose not to jump because God is all-knowing.
4. God did not have to wait until I chose not to jump in order to know I would choose not to jump.
God has no knowledge. What you then do, because you have to fit the God is all-knowing in. Is that you magically insert another point before the others afterwards:

0. God already knew. (Magically appears)
1. ....
2. ..
God has all knowledge and that is why God already knew I would choose not to jump before I chose not to jump.
This doesn't make sense, either God knew it or he didn't

0. God already knew. (Magically appears)
1. You go to the edge
2. You choose to not jump
3. Therefore God knows.

Points 0 and 3 have to match. They can't just magically change based on what you choose. There has to be consistency in the argument.
If God knows in point 0, then it would be the same in point 3, and given God's knowledge surpasses everything, then point 2 has to also match point 0, otherwise God is not all-knowing.

I truly don't understand how you can make this add up, without applying some kind of magic that doesn't make sense?:D
Points 0 and 3 do match up, although I would not state it exactly as you did since the word therefore indicates that God did not already know (God only knew after I chose not to jump.).

0. God already knew.
1. You go to the edge
2. You choose to not jump
3. God knows what He already knew in 0.

What is magical about that?
This has to be the first thing you add:
0. (God knows something - What is it God knows?)

1. You doing something. (This is the event or situation you are in)

2. You need to make a choice based on the situation/event you are in. (Point 1)

3. This is the final result and correct answer, but this has to match what God knows in point 0.
That list is exactly correct!
How can you add point 2 before 0? And still, maintain that God is all-knowing? And if you add 0 before 2, then how can 2 be anything other than 0, if you can't change it as you say?
Point 2 does not come before point 0. Point 0 comes before point 2 since God knew the choice I would make in point 2 before I made that choice. That choice in 2 cannot be anything other than 0. Whatever choice I make in point 2 has to be identical to point 0 because God the all-knowing God knows what choice I will make in point 2.

The important point is that at point 2, I had a choice between x and y, and the choice I made (x or y) has to be identical to 0.
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
1. I go to the edge
2. I choose to not jump
3. God knew I would not choose to jump before I chose not to jump because God is all-knowing.
4. God did not have to wait until I chose not to jump in order to know I would choose not to jump.
That is why I put it on a timeline.

If God "knew" something (3.) then we could just as well write it like this.

0. God knows you won't jump
1. You don't jump

We don't have to add anything else. There is no difference between the two ways of writing it.

All these other points are unnecessary when we agree that God knows everything. But simply using only 2 points, doesn't change the fact that this still has to align with a timeline.

You can't jump before you get to that point in the timeline where this event would take place and therefore the choice doesn't exist. God knows that you won't jump before getting to that point.

Whether you jump or not is either true or false. Therefore what God knows in 0. must always be correct, and therefore 1. has to equal that. Not because God knows it, but because 0. has to be filled in before 1. And 0. can never be wrong.

That list is exactly correct!
But not for the reason you think :)

Look at the explanation above 3. can't be different than 0.

Whatever choice I make in point 2 has to be identical to point 0 because God the all-knowing God knows what choice I will make in point 2.
Yes, but since you have to add 0. before 2, again God knows it before you even get to 2.

The important point is that at point 2, I had a choice between x and y, and the choice I made (x or y) has to be identical to 0.
You wouldn't have a choice of X or Y, if 0. is already fixed.

If 0. is X, then 2. is also X, there is no Y, except the illusion of it being possible.
 
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