Woman hits man on bus - watch video and decide....

[dawny0826]

...was she overreacting, or was she justified?

[youtube]PBSYL_Th2Ts[/youtube]
Lady slaps a pervert in bus - YouTube

What would you do if you were her? Or if you were on the bus with the group?

Hard for me to comment as to whether or not she was overreacting or was justified, not knowing who the hell she is and her relationship to the "pervert". I suppose that I'm to assume that he's a stranger, attempting to molest her, but, it looked almost like he knew her and was aggrevating her, which, in my opinion, would give her greater reason to turn around and beat the crap out of him.

Whatever the case, her reaction made me laugh and made me want to high five her for standing her ground.

I'm not sure that I'd be so quick to beat the crap out of someone on a public bus like that, unless I felt threatened and no one would help me. If I tell you to get the hell off of me, call for help and nothing changes...it's on.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I am not following.

So you think there are contexts in which revenge is okay?

The attack stopped. He cant continue because he is being watched. Now violence that serves no cause is justified because it will make her feel better?

Instinct is powerful. My own self-defense in the story I shared was just against one person. If I saw he was one of a group who might have been with him, my best guess is that the hair would raise in the back of my head, and I likely would have gotten louder, nastier, and probably would have kept swinging my chemistry book at all of them to stay the hell away.

I don't know how else to describe survival instinct. Again, it's powerful. Extremely powerful.

 

[Alceste]

It hasothing to do with sex.

Again, if the guy has done that to me, I would have got up yelling and attacked him out of my space. If he doesnt come back at my space, there is no reason to further attack, and the smart thing to do for me is to keep myself standing and keep my space.

Thats the ressonable thing to do. Scandal and then protect your space.

Not revenge. That is not a good mindset.

You're assuming too much. Did she "decide" anything? When? Was she after "revenge"? What makes you think so? The video is short and ended as the confrontation ended, so how do you know she didn't calm down just stand her ground when she had all the men intimidated and herded toward the back of the bus?

I think you're just desperate for her to be wrong somehow. Her behavior (yelling and smacking around with the umbrella) might look extreme to you but it was completely effective, not just at breaking the bully, but also at controlling the position of all the other men on the bus, so who cares how it looks?

 

[Me Myself]

While i could not emphatically enough express how i absolutely do think that revenge is okay in some contexts, and how i view notions of suggesting that revenge is always wrong to be extremely silly and often inconsistent, to suggest that i'm saying it's okay just because it makes her feel better ignores everything i described in regards to handling such sexual predators like this one and how this is an effective method of doing so, as been demonstrated to me by real life cases more than once.

It also ignores the culture aspect pointed out repeatedly, which puts a load on women in having to stand up to not just one man assaulting her, but a rampant social phenomena which makes their everyday life much more difficult than necessary.

In short, while i do think revenge is okay in some contexts, this is not solely or even close to such why i think this woman's response was appropriate. My judgement is based on what she most likely has to go through, what situation she was in, and how does her response usually work in regards to these kind of disgusting assaults.

Wow.

Well I dont believe in revenge, so on that part we can agree to disagree.

On the other part, the guy was beaten after she already got her grounds. This was unnecessary.

She had her space, and you can see her gamble it so she can hit him more. This was unnecessary.

She is gambling space and taking the chance someone takes her weapon of to protect the guy they are seeng calmly talking to the crazy lady with the weapon.

 

[Alceste]

Instinct is powerful. My own self-defense in the story I shared was just against one person. If I saw he was one of a group who might have been with him, my best guess is that the hair would raise in the back of my head, and I likely would have gotten louder, nastier, and probably would have kept swinging my chemistry book at all of them to stay the hell away.

I don't know how else to describe survival instinct. Again, it's powerful. Extremely powerful.

Exactly. Whether or not this particular incident was staged, the situation it depicts happens all the time, and in India it doesn't always go so well for the victim. She was not reacting to a sweaty ballsack bumping against her shoulder, but to the possible threat of being violently gang raped and killed. I don't know if I'd feel comfortable the "threat" had been controlled until I'd flattened every man on the bus. The survival instinct doesn't stop driving your behavior until you feel safe.

 

[Debater Slayer]

While i could not emphatically enough express how i absolutely do think that revenge is okay in some contexts, and how i view notions of suggesting that revenge is always wrong to be extremely silly and often inconsistent, to suggest that i'm saying it's okay just because it makes her feel better ignores everything i described in regards to handling such sexual predators like this one and how this is an effective method of doing so, as been demonstrated to me by real life cases more than once.

It also ignores the culture aspect pointed out repeatedly, which puts a load on women in having to stand up to not just one man assaulting her, but a rampant social phenomena which makes their everyday life much more difficult than necessary.

In short, while i do think revenge is okay in some contexts, this is not solely or even close to such why i think this woman's response was appropriate. My judgement is based on what she most likely has to go through, what situation she was in, and how does her response usually work in regards to these kind of disgusting assaults.

Exactly. I've seen cases of verbal sexual harassment myself where the harasser clearly expected the woman not to say or do anything in return, and I think that might have been the primary motivation for them in the first place. They expect impunity from what they do, which probably makes them feel better about themselves in a sick kind of way.

I'm a member of a couple of Facebook pages that specifically discuss sexual harassment in Egypt, share videos of such cases, and try to expose sexual harassers' identities. Many stories shared on said pages by women who were sexually harassed and by men who witnessed cases of sexual harassment also point out that a lot of harassers tend to back off and pretend they've done nothing when they're confronted; they think they'd get away with it, but when something is done about it, they quickly try to hide it and quit what they're doing.

I definitely think that fighting back, whether by the person who was harassed or by a bystander, is a good way of combating sexual harassment. It shouldn't be necessary, but I think fighting back would put more sexual harassers in their place.

 

[Me Myself]

You're assuming too much. Did she "decide" anything? When? Was she after "revenge"? What makes you think so? The video is short and ended as the confrontation ended, so how do you know she didn't calm down just stand her ground when she had all the men intimidated and herded toward the back of the bus?

I already said after seeing the video it seemed she acted out of fear, not revege. It is also specified ithe comment you quoted. The short video shows more than enough how she continued the assault way after the first assaulter was cowed,

Her behavior (yelling and smacking around with the umbrella) might look extreme to you but it was completely effective, not just at breaking the bully, but also at controlling the position of all the other men on the bus, so who cares how it looks?

Second 36 he has already voluntarily done steps forward after the momentum of her push.

Further on you can see instead of her going back (which does not mean back to her sit for waldo's sake :eyeroll: it means going away from them while not losing eye contact.) she goes further in, making herself be more surrounded by the men than before. She takes her eyes off the assaulter to debate something with one on her right (this one would before be in front of her, but she has been going forward and as such letting herself to be easily surrounded if the men had wanted to do so or felt sufficiently threatened) and then when he looks back at him she again smacks the guy without him going towards her but having her going towards him even more.

After second 36 she already managed everything she needed. Had she walked away from them while keeping thhem isight it would have been much easier to have them all controled, as they would have had to go in a row towards her and it would have been an easy smack out.

She didnt want to avoid the assault. She wanted to confront them, and then she kept smacking the guy because while she wanted to confront them verbally she was still physically afraid.

Just because it didnt go bad doesnt mean she did the best. I can run into traffic without being ran over, that doesnt mean its smart to run into traffic.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

It hasothing to do with sex.

Again, if the guy has done that to me, I would have got up yelling and attacked him out of my space. If he doesnt come back at my space, there is no reason to further attack, and the smart thing to do for me is to keep myself standing and keep my space.

Thats the ressonable thing to do. Scandal and then protect your space.

Not revenge. That is not a good mindset.

??? so it's not a sexual assault?
yeah I'm still going with what I said.

 

[Me Myself]

Exactly. Whether or not this particular incident was staged, the situation it depicts happens all the time, and in India it doesn't always go so well for the victim. She was not reacting to a sweaty ballsack bumping against her shoulder, but to the possible threat of being violently gang raped and killed. I don't know if I'd feel comfortable the "threat" had been controlled until I'd flattened every man on the bus. The survival instinct doesn't stop driving your behavior until you feel safe.

Mystics situation as I understood it was very different. She made one single smack and it stopped.

It STOPPPED. She didnt kept on, she wanted to terminate the attack and she did.

In this other case, the woman was scared and kept on attacking, instead of being scared and walking away, while facing enemy and being ready to smack anyone coming to her space.

 

[Badran]

Wow.

To be honest, this has been my reaction to the entirety of your posts here.

For someone to go to such lengths in effort and to repeatedly ignore crucial aspects clarified just to point out that it was 'wrong' of the women to throw a few more hits than supposedly necessary to someone who was sexually assaulting her in such blatant manner, and in a culture containing serious serious problems in that regard, is something i find extremely disturbing, and saddening.

Well I dont believe in revenge, so on that part we can agree to disagree.

Cool.

On the other part, the guy was beaten after she already got her grounds. This was unnecessary.

She had her space, and you can see her gamble it so she can hit him more. This was unnecessary.

She is gambling space and taking the chance someone takes her weapon of to protect the guy they are seeng calmly talking to the crazy lady with the weapon.

I've already extensively addressed your analysis. I've tried to show you how your simplistic analysis does not hold true in reality, both in regards to the attacker and the victim. Other posters did and are trying to, as well.

Yet you're more interested in pointing out hypothetical scenarios that can shed even the slimmest of negative light on the woman's actions.

I'm not saying i'm no longer interested in discussing this, but i'm saying that repeating what you already said and have been addressed doesn't offer me anything to further argue against, unless i'm willing to repeat myself endlessly.

 

[Me Myself]

??? so it's not a sexual assault?

What is not sexual assault?

If a man tries the same on me, it is sexual assault too, yes? The reasonable thing to do is attack him out of my space and move away from them while defending immidiate space.

What she did was attack him out of her space and then keep on attacking him and en get in the middle of the men and having to divert his attention between her righht and her front because she was getting into trouble instead of out of trouble.

I dont understand why everyone is playing like you either hit the guy to a pulp or stay quiet and be cowed.

It's like ascertiveness s is dead or somethiing.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

What is not sexual assault?

If a man tries the same on me, it is sexual assault too, yes? The reasonable thing to do is attack him out of my space and move away from them while defending immidiate space.

What she did was attack him out of her space and then keep on attacking him and en get in the middle of the men and having to divert his attention between her righht and her front because she was getting into trouble instead of out of trouble.

I dont understand why everyone is playing like you either hit the guy to a pulp or stay quiet and be cowed.

It's like ascertiveness s is dead or somethiing.

you said to me "it has nothing to do with sex"
I'm confused, what are you referring to?

 

[Me Myself]

To be honest, this has been my reaction to the entirety of your posts here.

For someone to go to such lengths in effort and to repeatedly ignore crucial aspects clarified just to point out that it was 'wrong' of the women to throw a few more hits than supposedly necessary to someone who was sexually assaulting her in such blatant manner, and in a culture containing serious serious problems in that regard, is something i find extremely disturbing, and saddening.



Cool.



I've already extensively addressed your analysis. I've tried to show you how your simplistic analysis does not hold true in reality, both in regards to the attacker and the victim. Other posters did and are trying to, as well.

Yet you're more interested in pointing out hypothetical scenarios that can shed even the slimmest of negative light on the woman's actions.

I'm not saying i'm no longer interested in discussing this, but i'm saying that repeating what you already said and have been addressed doesn't offer me anything to further argue against, unless i'm willing to repeat myself endlessly.

You have said this happens a lot and she had a lot of emotions driving her. That the culture makes this happen a lot too.

In what way does this change the fact that she went forward to her assaulter after having gained space instead of maki more space between him and her while still remaining alert and ready to attack any further advance?

 

[Me Myself]

you said to me "it has nothing to do with sex"
I'm confused, what are you referring to?

Ah, when you said "it angers me when people say how a woman must reac tto .."

That is why I put myself (a man) as an example and said it didnt have to do with sex(the word gender might have been less confusing) .

You use violence as necessary to secure your safety, hold your ground, walk away from attackers while still having them in clear sight. That is what is moral to do if you are reasonably able to do so. A public place is a reasonable place to do so.

A dark alley is the place where you kill the ******* without remorse if he comes at you and is quicker and more secure than running.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Ah, when you said "it angers me when people say how a woman must reac tto .."

That is why I put myself (a man) as an example and said it didnt have to do with sex(the word gender might have been less confusing) .

You use violence as necessary to secure your safety, hold your ground, walk away from attackers while still having them in clear sight. That is what is moral to do if you are reasonably able to do so. A public place is a reasonable place to do so.

A dark alley is the place where you kill the ******* without remorse if he comes at you and is quicker and more secure than running.

Yeah I said woman cause we are talking about the woman in the video...
ssooorrryyy!

 

[Badran]

You have said this happens a lot and she had a lot of emotions driving her. That the culture makes this happen a lot too.

In what way does this change the fact that she went forward to her assaulter after having gained space instead of maki more space between him and her while still remaining alert and ready to attack any further advance?

It makes a difference in that the issue requires a stand. She might not just be trying to get out of the situation, and i think that's a reasonable interpretation you're failing to consider.

She might be trying to make a stand against immense, unaddressed psychological suffering she has to go through from a lot of people in society. She might also be thinking of other women she knows who have and do go through this repeatedly.

Societies in question are failing to address the repeated wide scale assaults in question here, so people might want to make a stand for themselves. Send a message. And considering that we agree she didn't do anything to him that was not warranted or deserved in other words, i see nothing to object to.

In addition, her reaction is still understandable if she was just trying to get out. She perceived a danger, and was assaulted, and she decided to break the bully and not let him go with ease. I have seen this done with immense success, and it has given a lot of women great positive energy. I can and have agreed with some of your concerns, but to try to paint her actions as 'wrong' is a different story.

 

[Me Myself]

It makes a difference in that the issue requires a stand. She might not just be trying to get out of the situation, and i think that's a reasonable interpretation you're failing to consider.

She might be trying to make a stand against immense, unaddressed psychological suffering she has to go through from a lot of people in society. She might also be thinking of other women she knows who have and do go through this repeatedly.

Societies in question are failing to address the repeated wide scale assaults in question here, so people might want to make a stand for themselves. Send a message. And considering that we agree she didn't do anything to him that was not warranted or deserved in other words, i see nothing to object to.

In addition, her reaction is still understandable if she was just trying to get out. She perceived a danger, and was assaulted, and she decided to break the bully and not let him go with ease. I have seen this done with immense success, and it has given a lot of women great positive energy. I can and have agreed with some of your concerns, but to try to paint her actions as 'wrong' is a different story.

I ve always said her reaction is understandable and the man honestly needs something more corrective that a pair of umbrella attacks.

Its good that she took a stand, it would actually have been wrong (but understandable) that she didnt.

I have said since I saw the video that the scandal an any violence fir the direct removal of him of her space is justified and was needed. The part I see as non justified was the violence peroetrated after she had already removed him. Scandal could and would have much better be if had continued on as loudly as possible for as much time as possible, but you can continue it without the violence.

In other words, I dont think violence is the only way to take a stand, and given she had already used the violence necessary to remove him from her, the violence that comes after that is what I dont deemed justified, although I would say its understandable.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Exactly. Whether or not this particular incident was staged, the situation it depicts happens all the time, and in India it doesn't always go so well for the victim. She was not reacting to a sweaty ballsack bumping against her shoulder, but to the possible threat of being violently gang raped and killed. I don't know if I'd feel comfortable the "threat" had been controlled until I'd flattened every man on the bus. The survival instinct doesn't stop driving your behavior until you feel safe.

Mystics situation as I understood it was very different. She made one single smack and it stopped.

It STOPPPED. She didnt kept on, she wanted to terminate the attack and she did.

True. It was just one guy, too. But my adrenaline was super high and my senses heightened. It took a little bit for my heart to stop beating super fast. I had my guard up probably for the next 10 minutes.

In this other case, the woman was scared and kept on attacking, instead of being scared and walking away, while facing enemy and being ready to smack anyone coming to her space.

I do repeat, that if I was in her shoes, staged or not, riding a bus where I was sexually assaulted by one guy who looked like he came with a group of men....and in a country where gang rape and murder is a real possibility....I'd be raising hell like her.

All it would take is one look around to see he wasn't alone, and the hair would raise on the back of my head. Being in survival situations before (and a few of us in the thread know this from experience), you don't think. You don't reason. It's pure instinct to do what you can until you feel you're safe.

Not intellectually know that you're safe. When you're attacked, you want to instinctively feel safe.

I agree that you're getting hung up on words surrounding the meanings of "emotion" here. When I say "feel" here, I'm not talking about fleeting or whimsical emotional states. I'm talking about the human survival instinct in a very real sense. In this conversation, I'm talking about the instinctive responses to threats against safety, security, and survival.

 

[Me Myself]

True. It was just one guy, too. But my adrenaline was super high and my senses heightened. It took a little bit for my heart to stop beating super fast. I had my guard up probably for the next 10 minutes.



I do repeat, that if I was in her shoes, staged or not, riding a bus where I was sexually assaulted by one guy who looked like he came with a group of men....and in a country where gang rape and murder is a real possibility....I'd be raising hell like her.

All it would take is one look around to see he wasn't alone, and the hair would raise on the back of my head. Being in survival situations before (and a few of us in the thread know this from experience), you don't think. You don't reason. It's pure instinct to do what you can until you feel you're safe.

Not intellectually know that you're safe. When you're attacked, you want to instinctively feel safe.

I agree that you're getting hung up on words surrounding the meanings of "emotion" here. When I say "feel" here, I'm not talking about fleeting or whimsical emotional states. I'm talking about the human survival instinct in a very real sense. In this conversation, I'm talking about the instinctive responses to threats against safety, security, and survival.

Thats why I havent said anything about her. I dont think she is a bad person, she mit be a remarkably good one.

I am talking about the actions. I feel it was justified to get the attacker out of her space, but to keep on attacking wasnt.

I wouldnt get on her face about it, because we all do stupid things when angry or scared, and the assaulter diserves a better correction than a pair of umbrella attacks.

By better, I mean something that might work so he doesnt do this again or does it less often, like pressing charges when and if possible.

Its just that I find it important to recognize revenge attitudes when they are there, and this is one of those scenarios when it is easy to have them.

I don't think anyone should trust revenge reactions.

 

[Father Heathen]

I don't think anyone should trust revenge reactions.

Fear of reprisal serves as a good deterrent. Douche bags need to have their ***** beat far more frequently.