Women need to start boycotting sports

[Koldo]

In none.
I couldn't care less about the Olympics. I am not into sports.
I just think that it is fair two people compete against each other on equal terms.

I didn't see any equality.

Sports are not about equality.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I consider it presumptive that a person with XY chromosomes will always have an unfair advantage over a person with XX chromosomes.

Especially in this case. She's been beaten, most of her wins weren't by knockout, she just doesn't seem to have this tremendous advantage people think she does.

 

[Kathryn]

She was born a female, she identifies as a woman, she has not been shown to be intersexed, she is a cis-woman.

Probably without ovaries but I doubt either of us knows for sure.

 

[We Never Know]

Probably without ovaries but I doubt either of us knows for sure.

They haven't denied or confirmed if its a DSD case.
However...

The International Olympic Committee(IOC) has been forced to issue a correction after its president said "this is not a DSD case.”

The IOC subsequently tweeted that Bach had meant to explain that "this was not a transgender case."

IOC puts out correction after president Thomas Bach confuses gender issues | Paris Olympic Games 2024 | The Guardian

amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Kathryn]

They haven't denied or confirmed if its a DSD case.
However...

The International Olympic Committee(IOC) has been forced to issue a correction after its president said "this is not a DSD case.”

The IOC subsequently tweeted that Bach had meant to explain that "this was not a transgender case."

IOC puts out correction after president Thomas Bach confuses gender issues | Paris Olympic Games 2024 | The Guardian

amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org

Ugh. So we just don't know. And personally, I don't much care. Though I would not submit to any testing that everyone didn't have to take. I think it's patently unfair to single one person - or even two or three - out of hundreds. They COULD go by sport.

 

[wellwisher]

Sports are not about equality.

Sports are about equality in the sense of everyone allowed to play but by the one set of rules of reach sport. It is not two or more sets of rules to try to create equality of results. It is about a level playing field where all are welcome to try out, but you need to follow the one set of rules. In the 100 meter dash everyone has to stay in their lane the entire race. All have to start behind the starting line, and you cannot go beyond that line until the gun is fired. Nobody has an advantage and the best runner wins. It is simple and fair. If there are more competitor than we have lanes, we run elimination heats, until the final eight compete for medals. At that point we know who is the best in the world, which is sort of special. It is like nature and natural selection. There will be winner and losers but all are proud to be there.

Equality of result is where you let some start early, but not everyone, Some can run in the other lane, but not everyone. Some can start beyond the line, 10 meter ahead of the line, while some others, 2 meter behind the line, so when they all finish, everyone is side by side. That illusion of equity was called affirmative action. That would be called a rigged game in sports. Some high roller pay money to get people to throw the game like that; donors.

In my last post, I tried to explain how we got to this point of trans/genetic males in women's sport. It was an artifact of the women's movement and women wanting to do male jobs that males were physically better at doing; where the boys are. The women were welcome to try, but at first they had to play by the same set of rules that the me used. However, that did not allow many gals to play and stay, since like men and women in sports, there were physical differences and men were stronger and only a few gal cut the mustard. What began to happen was the push to have more than one set of rules; a cheat added, and then that morph into the handicapping the men; reverse discrimination. In the case of police and firefighters the fitness tests was watered down to create an illusion of equity. Now woman could so men's jobs?

The movement of women into the male world, was made even worse, by creating the narrative that women were innocent victims, for stealing men's jobs and the male were savage and toxic predator for wanting to keep their job. This cheating and male bashing appears to have had a negative impact on the young male psyche, especially of the newer generations with men, more raised by mom and wanting to become girls. The gay male is not seen as toxic but metropolitan, while and the transgender female is a not a male but is now called female. This shift was less negative, especially with the standard for women so water down; VP Harris.

VP Harris was considered toxic by people who worked for her, with her losing 90% plus of her original staff. But she is not called a toxic boss due to being a female. She is hard to work for. The world has gone mad. Only men can be toxic by definition. Now If a male wishes to dominate in any sport, all he has to do is become a girl and he can be the champion of the girls. Girls do not have these limits and handicaps imposed by law. No trans woman is toxic. They are a victim.

Transgender has been a blessing in disguise since it was the logical result of men finding the toxic masculinity loophole to stop taking fire and to take advantage of the dual standards. Trans in sports has become the fly in the ointment. The rules of sport are not controlled by Liberalism with two or more sets of rules so everyone gets a gold medal. Rather one set of rules but two leagues; men and women. However, a male can now say he is a girl, and can play with the girls, and use his male body advantages to dominate, since only men and not women have to dumb down by the law. By definition this biological male cannot be toxic or a predator since he is now a girl on the surface. This is now harming young women who suddenly realize, what men have known since before women's liberation; men and women are different. Women were kept out not due to bias but because many things were optimal to male skill sets and others jobs to female skills. Men took physics and women biology since biological is empirical cataloging and one needs a real good memory, which is a female strong suit.

The Secret Service also started to use the two sets of rules and almost got an ex-president killed. The leader was a trans woman who by definition was too nice to fire on the spot. This insanity has to end and this is a good place to start. Although Biden-Harris have change the law that protected women, will now allow trans women in privates spaces, that used to be just for bio-girls. Now trans women have all the advantages and no liability. Like in the boxing, change will occur only after there is a serious injury.

If you can change your sex, can you change your skin color to take advantage of other dual standard money pots? Like gender, is skin fluid and independent of your DNA if we use medicine and surgery? The surgery and meds may be a good investment if the DNC retains power. To them only the shallow surface matters, and not what is inside like DNA.

 

[Kathryn]

Sports are about equality in the sense of everyone allowed to play but by the one set of rules of reach sport. It is not two or more sets of rules to try to create equality of results. It is about a level playing field where all are welcome to try out, but you need to follow the one set of rules. In the 100 meter dash everyone has to stay in their lane the entire race. All have to start behind the starting line, and you cannot go beyond that line until the gun is fired. Nobody has an advantage and the best runner wins. It is simple and fair. If there are more competitor than we have lanes, we run elimination heats, until the final eight compete for medals. At that point we know who is the best in the world, which is sort of special. It is like nature and natural selection. There will be winner and losers but all are proud to be there.

Equality of result is where you let some start early, but not everyone, Some can run in the other lane, but not everyone. Some can start beyond the line, 10 meter ahead of the line, while some others, 2 meter behind the line, so when they all finish, everyone is side by side. That illusion of equity was called affirmative action. That would be called a rigged game in sports. Some high roller pay money to get people to throw the game like that; donors.

In my last post, I tried to explain how we got to this point of trans/genetic males in women's sport. It was an artifact of the women's movement and women wanting to do male jobs that males were physically better at doing; where the boys are. The women were welcome to try, but at first they had to play by the same set of rules that the me used. However, that did not allow many gals to play and stay, since like men and women in sports, there were physical differences and men were stronger and only a few gal cut the mustard. What began to happen was the push to have more than one set of rules; a cheat added, and then that morph into the handicapping the men; reverse discrimination. In the case of police and firefighters the fitness tests was watered down to create an illusion of equity. Now woman could so men's jobs?

The movement of women into the male world, was made even worse, by creating the narrative that women were innocent victims, for stealing men's jobs and the male were savage and toxic predator for wanting to keep their job. This cheating and male bashing appears to have had a negative impact on the young male psyche, especially of the newer generations with men, more raised by mom and wanting to become girls. The gay male is not seen as toxic but metropolitan, while and the transgender female is a not a male but is now called female. This shift was less negative, especially with the standard for women so water down; VP Harris.

VP Harris was considered toxic by people who worked for her, with her losing 90% plus of her original staff. But she is not called a toxic boss due to being a female. She is hard to work for. The world has gone mad. Only men can be toxic by definition. Now If a male wishes to dominate in any sport, all he has to do is become a girl and he can be the champion of the girls. Girls do not have these limits and handicaps imposed by law. No trans woman is toxic. They are a victim.

Transgender has been a blessing in disguise since it was the logical result of men finding the toxic masculinity loophole to stop taking fire and to take advantage of the dual standards. Trans in sports has become the fly in the ointment. The rules of sport are not controlled by Liberalism with two or more sets of rules so everyone gets a gold medal. Rather one set of rules but two leagues; men and women. However, a male can now say he is a girl, and can play with the girls, and use his male body advantages to dominate, since only men and not women have to dumb down by the law. By definition this biological male cannot be toxic or a predator since he is now a girl on the surface. This is now harming young women who suddenly realize, what men have known since before women's liberation; men and women are different. Women were kept out not due to bias but because many things were optimal to male skill sets and others jobs to female skills. Men took physics and women biology since biological is empirical cataloging and one needs a real good memory, which is a female strong suit.

The Secret Service also started to use the two sets of rules and almost got an ex-president killed. The leader was a trans woman who by definition was too nice to fire on the spot. This insanity has to end and this is a good place to start. Although Biden-Harris have change the law that protected women, will now allow trans women in privates spaces, that used to be just for bio-girls. Now trans women have all the advantages and no liability. Like in the boxing, change will occur only after there is a serious injury.

If you can change your sex, can you change your skin color to take advantage of other dual standard money pots? Like gender, is skin fluid and independent of your DNA if we use medicine and surgery? The surgery and meds may be a good investment if the DNC retains power. To them only the shallow surface matters, and not what is inside like DNA.

Look up Elliot Page.

 

[We Never Know]

Look up Elliot Page.

What is the reason to look up Elliot Page?

 

[Kathryn]

What is the reason to look up Elliot Page?

Well, he used to be a woman, Ellen Page. I just think it's a bit unusual for a woman to transition into a man, but honestly, I think most of these transitions are unusual. And many are sad.

 

[We Never Know]

Well, he used to be a woman, Ellen Page.

I was just reading about them. He(she then) came out as gay before transitioning.

"He was assigned female at birth and went by his given name, Ellen, prior to transitioning in 2020"...

On February 14, 2014, Page, who at that time presented as female, came out as gay (Page being attracted to women)...

On December 1, 2020, Page came out on social media as a trans man, specifying his pronouns as he and they, and revealed his new name, Elliot."

 

[IndigoChild5559]

That's in response to the IBA banning her, something that happened after she beat a Russian, and the IBA is Russian itself.

You seem to be arguing that the IBA, since it is Russian, will lie about this. I find that absurd, but hey, if you want to believe that sort of stuff, go for it.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

She was born a female

Nope. She was assigned female at birth, which is NOT the same thing. This happened largely because newborns are not routinely tested for their chromosomes or whether their internal gonads are ovaries or testes. A female is someone who has XX chromosomes, the genitalia and secondary sex characteristics of a female, and the brain wiring of a female. Since she failed one of those three at birth, she is intersexed.

I'm not going to debate this with you further. You have way to much at stake emotionally to think objectively. Let's just agree to disagree.

 

[GoodAttention]

Maybe not, but all of those who have undergone male puberty will.



The risks in boxing are significant. That is not in any doubt.

On average those who have undergone male puberty punch significantly harder. 162% according to some studies.

Women have less punch resistance as they pound for pound have less muscle strength.

The harder you get hit the greater the chance of injury., especially if you have less resistance.

It’s not uncommon for people to die or suffer life changing injuries in boxing.

This is why there are so many weight classes.

What is an acceptable level of risk in your opinion? How would you quantify the risk?

You have quantified both the risk and a potential solution it looks like, thank you.

Could a person with DSD be placed in a weight class that is heavier by applying a "handicap" based on punch strength?

I know there would be more to it, but if difference in punch strength is the most significant variable for fairness and also risk then it could be a place to start, especially if there are many weight classes.

 

[GoodAttention]

You seem to be arguing that the IBA, since it is Russian, will lie about this. I find that absurd, but hey, if you want to believe that sort of stuff, go for it.

The International Boxing Association isn't Russian, but the current president is, and ultimately the person responsible for its decisions.

I think the reason the IOC was correct to ban the IBA is because they disqualified the two boxers in 2023 and then quietly updated their Technical and Competition Rules in March 2024 to say women must have XX chromosomes.

 

[Augustus]

know there would be more to it, but if difference in punch strength is the most significant variable for fairness and also risk then it could be a place to start, especially if there are many weight classes.

It’s the most significant variable for safety.

Fairness would include all the other benefits from male puberty (and some of these also relate to safety).

Could a person with DSD be placed in a weight class that is heavier by applying a "handicap" based on punch strength?

What about those in higher weight classes who couldn’t move up?

It would also make women’s boxing into a bit of a circus. “Can a featherweight who has undergone male puberty beat a heavyweight female?”

But I don’t think you could finesse it with any real degree of accuracy due to different people being impacted in different ways.

The easiest thing would be that people with DSD who have undergone male puberty should not box in the female class.

There is no magic solution whereby we can be maximally inclusive and also prioritise safety and fairness.

 

[GoodAttention]

It’s the most significant variable for safety.

Fairness would include all the other benefits from male puberty (and some of these also relate to safety).

True fairness would be to assess what benefit, if any, exists specifically for the person.

To say a person who has DSD and goes through male puberty is therefore going to outperform a person who didn't is only an inference until it can be confirmed. I dare say their level of androgenization would be less than a male without DSD, and quantifying punch strength, lung capacity, blood volume, hemoglobin, and bone density to assess the real risk of safety should be considered.

What about those in higher weight classes who couldn’t move up?

It would also make women’s boxing into a bit of a circus. “Can a featherweight who has undergone male puberty beat a heavyweight female?”

But I don’t think you could finesse it with any real degree of accuracy due to different people being impacted in different ways.

The easiest thing would be that people with DSD who have undergone male puberty should not box in the female class.

There is no magic solution whereby we can be maximally inclusive and also prioritise safety and fairness.

Boxing always will be a circus, but that doesn't mean we should start wearing clown makeup too.

If a person with DSD could show they were within, for example, the 95th percentile for all those factors I mentioned then they should be able to compete based on safety and fairness.

Certainly beats asking a person who has gone through male puberty to start hormonal therapy to lower testosterone like the IAAF did with Semenya.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The International Boxing Association isn't Russian, but the current president is, and ultimately the person responsible for its decisions.

I think the reason the IOC was correct to ban the IBA is because they disqualified the two boxers in 2023 and then quietly updated their Technical and Competition Rules in March 2024 to say women must have XX chromosomes.

I think a LOT of sports organizations are updating their requirements to deal with the present confusion.

 

[Soandso]

Imane Khelif has 9 losses under her belt by other women, so it's not like she has some crazy advantage from what I can see. What's the issue?

 

[GoodAttention]

I think a LOT of sports organizations are updating their requirements to deal with the present confusion.

Hopefully they are more conscionable than the IBA and consider the IOC recommendation "that diverse gender identities and variations in sex characteristics should not be assumed as an unquestionable sign of disproportionate advantage nor imply unavoidable risk to other athletes. Rather, any eligibility rules should be based on ethical, credible, and peer-reviewed research".

 

[blü 2]

I was reading today about the woman olympic boxer who walked off in pain after only 46 seconds and openly cried. This was not some pansy woman. She was a world class boxer. She was forced to compete against someone who had male chromosomes.

I can't blame her. I did Kung Fu for seven years at a school that had only two women, so we had no choice but to spar with men. I'll tell you, after seven years, I got pretty good, but never stopped taking a beating from the guys. After seven years, I was still scared to spar. They HURT me. I think I became a better sparrer because I was forced to spar with those far better than me. But was it a level playing field? Absolutely not.

I personally have absolutely nothing against trans women. I think in general, society need to be far more tolerant of them. But what's happening in women's sports takes it to an extreme that is insane.

Forcing women in sports to compete against biological males is not right. Males are not only stronger, but they have thicker bones, larger hearts, larger lungs, greater hemoglobin levels, and are taller and have longer limbs. There is no way that the best women can compete against the best men.

Dare I use the M word? Yes. This is misogyny. They are disappearing women.

View attachment 95003

This seems to me to be an unfortunate blip along a road to a worthwhile destination.

We are trying to equal up society by distinguishing the individual's gender from their sex.

And it has all sorts of consequences in unanticipated directions, such as here.

Is the person here simply your standard model biological woman who happens to be too good at producing testosterone (which all women produce, just to a lesser degree than men, very usually)?

Is the person a standard model male whose gender identification is female? That seems like a different case to me, though I make no claim to being particularly well-informed on these matters.

Is there a biological hermaphroditic element here? That seems to be a different case again.

Whatever the answers, someone somewhere will probably be unhappy with the result, of course, but I have my fingers crossed that human ingenuity and an acute sense of fairness will get it sorted ─ a work in progress.