Alceste
Vagabond
How is that relevant? Are the other mining companies doing poorly or something?
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Worlds richest woman makes case for 2 dollar a day pay.
- Thread starter Father Heathen
- Start date
How is that relevant? Are the other mining companies doing poorly or something?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
While I suppose she isn't technically suggesting 2 dollars a day, suggesting minimum wage laws need to go so employers can pay what they want, because she feels Australia paying whatever they do does not allow them to compete with nations that pay 2 dollars a day is still suggesting that she thinks she should able to pay her workers wages that are far below what is needed to live.
Last edited:
Alceste
Vagabond
Just reading this: Gina Rinehart - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This is a woman who has spent a significant portion of her adult life bickering in court over money with her own step-mother and three out of four of her own children. Ugh.
This is a woman who has spent a significant portion of her adult life bickering in court over money with her own step-mother and three out of four of her own children. Ugh.
Alceste
Vagabond
Here is some background information for anyone who doesn't understand what she is advocating when she argues for worse labour conditions for workers in Australia (as opposed to better labour conditions in Africa):
Four miners shot at Modder East goldmine in South Africa | World news | The Guardian
Fears over violent unrest spreading in South Africa's mining industry grew on Monday after a police shooting at a gold mine left four workers in hospital, including one critically injured. The incident came as the first group of miners was released from custody following the Lonmin platinum mine massacre, in which police gunned down 34 of their colleagues.
Official: At least 60 dead in Congo gold mine after landslide in country's remote northeast
KINSHASA, Congo - A landslide at a gold mine in a remote corner of northeast Congo has left at least 60 people dead, a local administrator said Thursday. Faustin Drakana Kananga told The Associated Press that the accident took place Monday in Pangoyi, but rescue efforts have been hampered because the dense jungle area is controlled by members of a militia.
China Investment Brings Jobs, Conflict to Zambia Mines - WSJ.com
The Zambian government is investigating the latest clash, on Aug. 4, when rioting workers at a coal mine in southern Zambia killed a 50-year old Chinese supervisor, running him over with a mining cart. Two other Chinese managers were injured in the violence at Collum Coal mine—a locally-registered but Chinese-owned company—and 16 Zambians were arrested. Zambian officials and a Collum executive blame the revolt on a misunderstanding as to when a minimum-wage increase would take effect, increasing monthly salaries to $230 from $150.
Young and dying: the scandal of artisanal mining - The Globe and Mail
With his Hulk cartoon T-shirt and his solemn face, Stephane Kapenda looks even younger and smaller than his 12 years. He knows he shouldn’t be here. But for years he has hauled tainted soil from this toxic waste pit into dirty pools of water so that he can search for bits of copper. “It’s bad,” he says quietly. “I would like to leave it and go to school.” Asked what is the worst thing about the work, he thinks for a moment and then whispers: “The sickness.” Twice, the effects of heavy-metal contamination have been so severe that he needed hospital treatment. Yet he keeps at it, alongside his siblings, to scrounge a tiny income for his parents – impoverished farmers who could not otherwise survive.
Four miners shot at Modder East goldmine in South Africa | World news | The Guardian
Fears over violent unrest spreading in South Africa's mining industry grew on Monday after a police shooting at a gold mine left four workers in hospital, including one critically injured. The incident came as the first group of miners was released from custody following the Lonmin platinum mine massacre, in which police gunned down 34 of their colleagues.
Official: At least 60 dead in Congo gold mine after landslide in country's remote northeast
KINSHASA, Congo - A landslide at a gold mine in a remote corner of northeast Congo has left at least 60 people dead, a local administrator said Thursday. Faustin Drakana Kananga told The Associated Press that the accident took place Monday in Pangoyi, but rescue efforts have been hampered because the dense jungle area is controlled by members of a militia.
China Investment Brings Jobs, Conflict to Zambia Mines - WSJ.com
The Zambian government is investigating the latest clash, on Aug. 4, when rioting workers at a coal mine in southern Zambia killed a 50-year old Chinese supervisor, running him over with a mining cart. Two other Chinese managers were injured in the violence at Collum Coal mine—a locally-registered but Chinese-owned company—and 16 Zambians were arrested. Zambian officials and a Collum executive blame the revolt on a misunderstanding as to when a minimum-wage increase would take effect, increasing monthly salaries to $230 from $150.
Young and dying: the scandal of artisanal mining - The Globe and Mail
With his Hulk cartoon T-shirt and his solemn face, Stephane Kapenda looks even younger and smaller than his 12 years. He knows he shouldn’t be here. But for years he has hauled tainted soil from this toxic waste pit into dirty pools of water so that he can search for bits of copper. “It’s bad,” he says quietly. “I would like to leave it and go to school.” Asked what is the worst thing about the work, he thinks for a moment and then whispers: “The sickness.” Twice, the effects of heavy-metal contamination have been so severe that he needed hospital treatment. Yet he keeps at it, alongside his siblings, to scrounge a tiny income for his parents – impoverished farmers who could not otherwise survive.
She probably believes that people are jealous of her wealth when they dislike her, she can't seem to fathom the true reason people dislike her. She's out of touch with the real world that's for sure. It's like giving you an olive slice off your pizza for exchange for washing off your table and cleaning up afterward wondering why the you're not grateful for you feeding them for pay.
Alceste
Vagabond
Exactly. The most obnoxious part of it is that she has the wealth, power and expertise to improve working conditions for miners in Africa if she's worried that the horrific conditions there are negatively impacting her own bottom line. Instead she chooses to use her position to try to make the conditions for miners in Australia more like African conditions. Why does she not start acquiring mines over there and paying those workers something resembling a living wage?
I expect it's because she's a horrible greedy cow, but I'm open to other explanations.
AmerikanZen
Active Member
A female prostitute over the age of +21 can make alot more than that.
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
I don't think she's pushing for a $2 minimum wage. I think she's pushing for businesses to have the ability to pay workers less, for the purpose of remaining competitive and strong.
If the Australian economy and coal mining industry is strong enough to where such a statement is asinine, so be it.
But, if there's truth to what she's saying, I think it's horribly unfair to attack the woman for the fact that she happens to be rich. She's not obligated to share her wealth with anyone else or to carry the coal mining business in Australia, because she's rich, and I resent the mentality that the rich have the responsibility to provide for everyone else. I agree with her to an extent.
If she's spewing lies and the Australian economy isn't in jeopardy, and the coal mining industry is booming and will continue to boom, with the mininum wage staying as is - I humbly step down from my soap box.
But, I am of the mindset that companies should be able to make provisions to maintain stability and vitality. I'd personally, rather sacrifice a dollar in pay or a portion of my benefits, if it results in stability in the long run with my job. Sometimes, this can be a temporary measure.
I think this is the type of point she's making. I don't think the $2 pay-a-day was meant to be taken literally. It was a comparison to what the folks in Africa are making and how those markets impact the Australian economy and coal mining industry.
If the Australian economy and coal mining industry is strong enough to where such a statement is asinine, so be it.
But, if there's truth to what she's saying, I think it's horribly unfair to attack the woman for the fact that she happens to be rich. She's not obligated to share her wealth with anyone else or to carry the coal mining business in Australia, because she's rich, and I resent the mentality that the rich have the responsibility to provide for everyone else. I agree with her to an extent.
If she's spewing lies and the Australian economy isn't in jeopardy, and the coal mining industry is booming and will continue to boom, with the mininum wage staying as is - I humbly step down from my soap box.
But, I am of the mindset that companies should be able to make provisions to maintain stability and vitality. I'd personally, rather sacrifice a dollar in pay or a portion of my benefits, if it results in stability in the long run with my job. Sometimes, this can be a temporary measure.
I think this is the type of point she's making. I don't think the $2 pay-a-day was meant to be taken literally. It was a comparison to what the folks in Africa are making and how those markets impact the Australian economy and coal mining industry.
Last edited:
Alceste
Vagabond
They don't hate her "just because she's rich". They hate her because she happens to have become ridiculously rich through the labour of her employees, and instead of feeling appreciative for all their hard work making her ridiculously rich, she wants to PAY THEM LESS, so that she can become even more ridiculously rich.
Do you honestly think one person can "earn" 9 billion dollars in a single year (2011) if their industry is "failing to remain competitive"? Her hypocrisy is breathtaking.
Again, NOBODY is attacking her because she happens to be rich. They are attacking her because she is a horrible person in absolutely every respect. She's a woman who is being sued over money by her own children. A woman who sued her own mother over money. A woman who thinks an African child labourer who poisons himself with mercury for pennies a day to feed his family instead of going to school is the model employee, and we should all strive to be a little more like him. She's ruthless, utterly lacking in compassion, and her greed is limitless.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
No one is attacking her because she is rich. It is because she, as someone who runs a business, does have an obligation to pay her employees a decent wage, and the numbers she is throwing out that accompany her statement of minimum wage laws and paying what she wants is two dollars a day.
Alceste
Vagabond
Also the inference is that she feels the conditions African miners endure are fair and just. Entire families in the pits getting heavy metal poisoning, with no protective equipment, with soldiers hovering over them with assault rifles and massacring them when they get agitated, sleeping in shanty-towns and barely earning enough to fend off starvation, and dying by the score in landslides.
That's what she thinks it means for the poor to have a decent work ethic, and it troubles her that Australians are not so hard-working.
I do hate her. I honestly do. I wish reincarnation were real, so that she could be reborn as a child miner in Africa, with total recall of her former life as a mining tycoon. Then I might feel like there is justice in the world.
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
I don't care as to whether or not she's a piece of **** as a person. That's not the issue here, and that's the point that I'm making.
The fact that she's rich isn't an issue.
What's she suggesting, if there's truth to the fact that the African market is having a negate impact on the Australian economy, could actually be of BENEFIT to the workers within the coal mining industry within Australia.
People are looking to her as if she, directly, is obligated to share her wealth with people within the industry. She's not. It's a business. She doesn't have to share her personal wealth with the business.
And as I said before, if what she's suggesting regarding the economy and the impact of foreign markets on the economy is bogus, I humbly retract my statements.
jasonwill2
Well-Known Member
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
That's not what she's saying, though. She's not ininsuating that her employees should be paid $2 a day. She's pushing for businesses to be able to pay less than the minimum wage, if it's necessary to remain competitive.
Take Wal-Mart for example. I know people hate Wal-Mart and I don't want to go there in debate.
Instead of laying people off in mass numbers in a rough economy - they will randomly cut people a day or so on their schedules. It's an inconvenience for employees, but it's done in a consistent and fair manner. It can be a short term hardship for employees, but people aren't losing jobs. The company stays competitive. Benefits aren't cut. And they're still able to hire.
What's essentially being suggested, by the logic of people on this thread, is that the "fix" to such an economical issue, would be for the owners of this corporation to sink their personal assets into the company for the workers.
I'm sorry, but, regardless as to how wealthy a corporation may be, people have the right to earn and enjoy their wealth. You're not obligated to sink your personal wealth into a corporation. I don't agree with this mindset.
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
Then educate, me. Because, I don't understand the logic of others in this thread. If you're going to personally attack me, I hope that you'll take the time to expound upon why my logic is so absurd. Give me something useful to take from this.
I'd also appreciate a definition of the word "mouthbeather".
Last edited by a moderator:
Alceste
Vagabond
How do you imagine that there might be any real economic issue with mining in Australia not being competitive when one mining tycoon can make nine billion dollars in a single year?
Do you not suppose the real issue might be that she wants to take money out of her employees pockets so she can stuff it into her own pockets even faster than she already is?
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
Okay, then. Thank you. I presented my views from the perspective of a legitimate economical/competitive issue and I was clear on that, though I'm apparently vapid and have a new nickname - mouthbeather.
Last edited:
What does she want all the money for? OMG maybe she's planning a conspiracy.
Alceste
Vagabond
Here: my father owned a business. He paid his workers competitive wages and benefits, and paid himself a decent salary. He also had a profit sharing system, whereby he took a significant part of his profit and divided it among his employees. This was his way of acknowledging that their efforts had contributed to the company's success. Most of his employees stayed with him for many years.
He did not complain about his taxes. He did not agitate for lower wages and labour standards so he could take more money home at the end of the day. He didn't outsource his office to India and lay off all his workers. He did not complain that poor people spent to much time drinking and not enough time working.
And his fortune was considerably more modest than this monstrosity we are discussing. Nevertheless, he was thankful for his good fortune, and never once even implied that he wished he had employees who would wear rags to work, sleep in lean-tos, let their children be poisoned, and still barely manage to avoid starvation on two dollars a day so he could make more money, faster.
I find this woman disgusting because she does not recognize that her fortune was created by the labour of others, and rather than wishing to reward them for their contribution to her company's success, which has made her the richest woman in the world, she wants to pay them LESS, so she can have MORE.