Would foreknowledge contradict free will?

[Willamena]

I think free will to make a choice and the freedom to act on that choice is entirely two different things.

There could be a fire in my house. I choose to leave, and act to get out, but a beam falls infront of me and stops me from exiting the house. My descision was not fullfilled but I did act on my choice.

A decision is fulfilled as soon as it is put in play. Whether circumstances then change or not is irrelevant --that only means a new choice must be made.

 

[Heneni]

A decision is fulfilled as soon as it is put in play. Whether circumstances then change or not is irrelevant --that only means a new choice must be made.

So youd try to get around the beam that has fallen infront of you in a burning house, by acting on another choice you have made.

Ok but eventually your mind is going to come up with an idea, that it wants to execute desperately but you'd have no power to execute it. At that point do you still have free will? Or do you have free will within boundaries? And wouldnt those boundaries shift if you had more power?

 

[Reverend Rick]

Being a bit dense, I find it difficult to reconcile being incapable of acting in any way other than the pre-existing script says to free will.

The trouble you may be having is understanding time as we know it vs the ability of a Godhead to transcend time. All the choices are yours to make. An all powerful God is not contained to today's date. While you are stuck here making decisions, God can fast forward and see your decisions ahead of the time you are living in.

Real time for us is a rerun for God.

 

[Wandered Off]

If the outcome of my decision exists anywhere prior to my making it, then I cannot act otherwise. This inability is the opposite of free will.

 

[Storm]

The trouble you may be having is understanding time as we know it vs the ability of a Godhead to transcend time. All the choices are yours to make. An all powerful God is not contained to today's date. While you are stuck here making decisions, God can fast forward and see your decisions ahead of the time you are living in.

Real time for us is a rerun for God.

Question, Rick. Using the metaphor of history (time) as a tapestry, do you believe that the tapestry is complete from God's perspective?

 

[Reverend Rick]

Question, Rick. Using the metaphor of history (time) as a tapestry, do you believe that the tapestry is complete from God's perspective?

Yes I do.

 

[Storm]

Thanks. I don't have a follow-up question or anything, I was just curious.

 

[Sahar]

You have two sons and you gave each of them 5 dollars to buy whatever they want. And as you know your children, while you were giving them the money you knew that your first son would take it to buy biscuits and your other son would buy a book. And indeed they returned the first with his biscuits and the other with the book.
Does this mean that your knowledge contradicted your sons' free will?

 

[Wandered Off]

Hi not4me! The difference with your scenario is that you are making a prediction based on past behavior. In this case, one of your sons could surprise you and, say, buy candy or a toy. What you are describing is not foreknowledge but prediction, which has no impact on free will.

I did a poor job with the title of this thread. Foreknowledge in and of itself does not contradict free will, IMO. However, the conditions in which foreknowledge could exist contradict free will. It's a fine line.

 

[Willamena]

I did a poor job with the title of this thread. Foreknowledge in and of itself does not contradict free will, IMO. However, the conditions in which foreknowledge could exist contradict free will. It's a fine line.

I think you did a fine job, especially if the conditions for foreknowledge do not guarantee foreknowledge.

 

[Willamena]

Ok but eventually your mind is going to come up with an idea, that it wants to execute desperately but you'd have no power to execute it. At that point do you still have free will? Or do you have free will within boundaries? And wouldnt those boundaries shift if you had more power?

Sorry, I missed this question earlier. I think what I am failing to get across is that "decision" is the execution of a choice. It's the done deed. As long as we have the power to exercise our will in acts, like making decisions, our will is "free will".

"Free will" is the expression of being, of a "me" separate and independent from the universe around it, able to act within and act on it, able to affect and be affected by it. That, to me, is free will.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

If I found out I was going to die in a car accident on a certain day, then I could just decide not to drive or ride in the car. I know that you would say that I would have no choice but to get into that car, because it was predestined, but I don't believe that.

You make the assumption you had to be in the car or driving it. You could have taken the bus to wal-mart, be coming out of the store and get run over in the parking lot.....

WOW...this sounds like that movie..."Final Destination".....

 

[Dirty Penguin]

In that case, everything is a hypothetical scenario. The future hasn't happened yet. If I could see into the future, then it couldn't possibly be anything but a hypothetical scenario since I can change it.

But this is what I'm talking about....With this supposed "God"....the future has already happened. The end was already known before he created space and time.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

If one doesn't believe in your God, calling Him a liar is rather nonsensical. Further, one need not deny God to deny your scripture.

I agree..but I tend to deny them both......

 

[Dirty Penguin]

If the outcome of my decision exists anywhere prior to my making it, then I cannot act otherwise. This inability is the opposite of free will.

That's what I've been saying......

 

[chongjasmine]

I think God has a complete foreknowledge of the future and yet, we have free-will.

I think He is some kind of being who can see outside of time everything that we will do in the future, but He gives to us the choices of what we will do.

It is kind of like watching a movie and knowing the whole story.
The character in the movie has many choices and therefore they have free will and they make choices based on their free will.

God is kind of like that. He can foresee all our choices in life, but He is not the one who makes the choices for us.

 

[Idiolatry]

Wow, 16 pages of stuff I had to catch up on, heh.

Someone mentioned that if they foresaw that they'd get in a car crash on a certain day, that they could change their future by not getting into a car. What if not getting into a car is your real destiny?

And if God eliminates certain possibilities, does that eliminate free will--if slightly? Let's say, back in the day, I wanted to visit Sodom. I'm planning my trip, getting packed up, got my plane tickets in hand (Just bear with me lol), but God steps in and says "Wow, those guys are bad. I'm going to blow them up!" So, He eliminated my free will to go visit Sodom, yeah?

 

[AK4]

What gets me is God says He knows THE END from the beginning, not the beginning to the end-- big difference!

So if the end is determined already what, pray tells, can your or anyone elses "free will" change?

Nothing

 

[Masourga]

OK, it's all hypothetical, but any thoughts? Am I out in left field again?

A somewhat amusing thought occurred to me after reading. If this describes the way God operates, then he would only really have a clear knowledge of the "true" future for far less than a nano-second before the next choice was made by someone else who would again change the course of time. So, even if a path were chosen, and the outcome known, that is ONE path. The next decision needing made to decide the branch of time we'll climb out on next would be right on it's heels... if not occurring at the exact same moment. In conclusion, a question: would there really be any benefit to this sort of advanced knowledge system? I suppose for large-scale, long-term effect decisions it would "work"...

It is an interesting thought.

 

[Willamena]

Wow, 16 pages of stuff I had to catch up on, heh.

Someone mentioned that if they foresaw that they'd get in a car crash on a certain day, that they could change their future by not getting into a car. What if not getting into a car is your real destiny?

And if God eliminates certain possibilities, does that eliminate free will--if slightly? Let's say, back in the day, I wanted to visit Sodom. I'm planning my trip, getting packed up, got my plane tickets in hand (Just bear with me lol), but God steps in and says "Wow, those guys are bad. I'm going to blow them up!" So, He eliminated my free will to go visit Sodom, yeah?

He eliminated an option. Even so, you still have the choice to go or not.