Would God condemn a person to hell who's never heard his word?

[madhatter85]

Mosiah 3:5-11

5 For behold, the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases.

6 And he shall cast out devils, or the evil spirits which dwell in the hearts of the children of men.

7 And lo, he shall suffer temptations, and pain of body, hunger, thirst, and fatigue, even more than man can suffer, except it be unto death; for behold, blood cometh from every pore, so great shall be his anguish for the wickedness and the abominations of his people.

8 And he shall be called Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and his mother shall be called Mary.

9 And lo, he cometh unto his own, that salvation might come unto the children of men even through faith on his name; and even after all this they shall consider him a man, and say that he hath a devil, and shall scourge him, and shall crucify him.

10 And he shall rise the third day from the dead; and behold, he standeth to judge the world; and behold, all these things are done that a righteous judgment might come upon the children of men.

11 For behold, and also his blood atoneth for the sins of those who have fallen by the transgression of Adam, who have died not knowing the will of God concerning them, or who have ignorantly sinned.

Chirst's atonement, plain and simple.

Do you believe that Christ was Resurrected?

Do you Believe that all mankind will be resurrected?

How can a person be judged, then cast into hell, or let into heaven immediately after death if they are to be resurrected?

This is why we do Work by proxy for the dead.
1st Corinthinas 15:29

"Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead?"

For all those who never got to hear the Lord's word, they are not judged yet.

 

[Ronald]

We believe Jesus paid for the sins of the world on the cross, not as a re-enactment, and that as we look back on the cross, those who lived before the death of Christ looked forward to the cross as Christ paid for all the sins of all the world for all time, once and for all. We also believe that believers in Christ are not judged at the Great White Throne Judgement as Jesus took our judgement for us and our sins are forgiven, forgotten and completely paid for by his blood. We believe we will attend the Judgement Seat of Christ which examines our works after we were saved for reward, our salvation having already been secured when we first believed. When you say it is not God's will that any should perish, it is true. But, God's perfect will and his permissive will are two different things. The Bible clearly states that not everyone will be saved, and that's all I have to say on that topic for now. When you say I "can't see the forest for the trees? LOL", that does not help whatever point you are trying to make, it only is seen as insulting language and childish to me, so I appreciate more light and less heat, please. I am sharing my beliefs openly and honestly and without insults, I would appreciate the same respect.

Good Lord, Joe, who then is to stand before ther Great White Throne?
It is insulting to condemn anyone to an everburning hell! Especially those who have not had benefit of you testifing Jesus Christ to them!
I was once a Baptist Christian! So I know why you are upset! You do not know the scriptures nor the power of G-d. Jn. 5:24 can you really say one has to say Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior to be saved in light of the words of Yeshua in that verse?
Go ahead and leave if all you can teach is Half Truths!
Ro 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Ro 11:29 For the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.
Your Christian Dogma is mainly the Precepts of men!
Well did Isaiah say of you!
Re 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

And Joe doesn't understand why.

Ro 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Isa 43:11 I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior.

Baruch Ha’ba B’Shem Adonai
Blessed is he who comes in the name of the LORD! [Ps 118:26 NKJV]

 

[ayani]

so... Ronald, you don't think that the idea of God's mercy and salvation being limited to the doctrines and words of the Bible is limiting?

can God not be manifest through, yet ultimately beyond the Bible?

 

[Ronald]

so... Ronald, you don't think that the idea of God's mercy and salvation being limited to the doctrines and words of the Bible is limiting?

can God not be manifest through, yet ultimately beyond the Bible?

You will need to widen the scope of the question.
If you are speaking of NT doctrines, the only limit I see is manmade.
Any NT writing other than the four Gospels an maybe Revelations are commentary, Christians do not accept the Hebrew Commentary.
But, there is enough truth in NT that witnesses to the Torah that one can find the whole truth. When a Christian discards the Tanack and the Hebrew Commentary, you come up with 3,500 split denominations who can't agree on much of anything except heaven and hell and they are both manmade dogmas!
And yes, God can manifest through the bible and beyond the bible, but beware it could be indigestion! If it (Whatever) does not uphold Tanack and/or changes the word of
G-d then it is FALSE! No question about it!

Shalom u'vracha

 

[madhatter85]

You will need to widen the scope of the question.
If you are speaking of NT doctrines, the only limit I see is manmade.
Any NT writing other than the four Gospels an maybe Revelations are commentary, Christians do not accept the Hebrew Commentary.
But, there is enough truth in NT that witnesses to the Torah that one can find the whole truth. When a Christian discards the Tanack and the Hebrew Commentary, you come up with 3,500 split denominations who can't agree on much of anything except heaven and hell and they are both manmade dogmas!
And yes, God can manifest through the bible and beyond the bible, but beware it could be indigestion! If it (Whatever) does not uphold Tanack and/or changes the word of
G-d then it is FALSE! No question about it!

Shalom u'vracha

even heaven and hell are manmade dogmas

 

[Ronald]

even heaven and hell are manmade dogmas

Amen! That is what I said.

 

[~Amin~]

If a sure way to get to heaven is to not hear the word of God then it was a very strange act of God to send out disciples into the whole world to preach the word especially considering that God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

I agree how can God who created all things not guide someone to him self indeed evry one will hear his word.

 

[madhatter85]

why do you think the LDS church spends so much time, effort, and money on missionary work?

Without hearing the word of god, you can not enter into the covenants that provide you the tremendous blessings.

 

[logician]

I've heard the word but do not believe.

But I am not worried.

Rationalism and freethought are worth whatever I "lost" in dropping religious faith.

 

[Andywelikandy]

What does the different religons say on this topic? How does God handle the soul of a person who has never heard of him? The same question applies to the soul who's person was sinning his entire life. Sending the person to hell seems very brutal and unfair since he never got the chance to consider the concept.

If anyone knows any scripture that handles this matter, please share it with me; but don't forget to state which religion it's from.

May I suggest that you study the first chapter of the book of Romans in the Holy Bible, starting from verse 18 studying to the end of the chapter. It tells us that no human being has an excuse for not knowing the Creator God.

 

[Simplelogic]

God will judge the hearts of every man. We are all in the same boat.

 

[Andywelikandy]

God will judge the hearts of every man. We are all in the same boat.

Sorry...we are not in the same boat. The Word of God in the NT is very clear that there are two "boats". One boat has only a few people (like the boat which Noah built and only 8 human beings got in) and the other has a huge number of people and that boat is full of un-pluggable holes and is slowly sinking. The Holy Spirit calls the people on the sinking boat "The children of the Devil." The unsinkable boat's people He called them "The Children of God." Here it is in 1st John 3: 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:

 

[Simplelogic]

Sorry...we are not in the same boat. The Word of God in the NT is very clear that there are two "boats". One boat has only a few people (like the boat which Noah built and only 8 human beings got in) and the other has a huge number of people and that boat is full of un-pluggable holes and is slowly sinking. The Holy Spirit calls the people on the sinking boat "The children of the Devil." The unsinkable boat's people He called them "The Children of God." Here it is in 1st John 3: 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:

YHVH is just and His judgement will be righteous. There are no loopholes, no exclusive salvation doctrines which enable an evil person to gain entry. These promises are fabrications developed by man made religious institutions to get more tithing congregants into there congregations. Every man will stand before his creator and give an account for how he lived his life.

 

[Andywelikandy]

YHVH is just and His judgement will be righteous. There are no loopholes, no exclusive salvation doctrines which enable an evil person to gain entry. .

OK no problem, but how do you plan to get into heaven with all your sins of thoughts, words, curses, and deeds? The Ten Commandments are impossible to keep, if you plan to get into heaven by keeping them.
Try this one Commandment alone to keep if you can..

Deut: 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.

9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

 

[Simplelogic]

OK no problem, but how do you plan to get into heaven with all your sins of thoughts, words, curses, and deeds? The Ten Commandments are impossible to keep, if you plan to get into heaven by keeping them.
Try this one Commandment alone to keep if you can..

Deut: 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.

9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

This command is not too difficult to keep.

11For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not too hard for thee, neither is it far off.12It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say: ‘Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, and make us to hear it, that we may do it?’ 13Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say: ‘Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, and make us to hear it, that we may do it?’ 14But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.Deut 30:11-14

Nor does man have to be perfect at keeping it. He only needs to repent:

21But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.23Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
Ezekiel 18: 21-23

This is the same concept which Jesus taught everywhere he went. Repent and do the Fathers commandments!

 

[Simplelogic]

This is why Jesus said things like this:

17“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill (greek: Pleroo-to fill up, or fully keep).18“For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19“Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20“For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Matt 5: 17-20

 

[Sabour]

In Islam, every one would be judged accordingly.

If the message of Islam was not properly conveyed to the person, or the person tried his best to to understand it but failed due to misconceptions or never heard about it, than God will test him on the day of judgement.

So if it is not his fault and he was sincere, he will not be held accountable and Allah knows best.

 

[Simplelogic]

In Islam, every one would be judged accordingly.

If the message of Islam was not properly conveyed to the person, or the person tried his best to to understand it but failed due to misconceptions or never heard about it, than God will test him on the day of judgement.

So if it is not his fault and he was sincere, he will not be held accountable and Allah knows best.

I agree with Muslims on this point. Though I may differ slightly. As far as I know, Muslim's believe that there is a tally system of sorts which God uses to judge our righteousness. This means that a man can't know whether he is in right standing with God, he must wait until the day of judgement.

The Hebrew scriptures do NOT teach that there is a tally system. If an evil man turns from his evil and follows God's commandments then it says his evil deeds are ERASED. This means that they are not being weighed against each other.

21But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live…Ezekiel 18: 21-22

Please correct me if I am wrong about Islamic views of God's judgement.

 

[Simplelogic]

This also means that a man can KNOW that he is in right standing with God. Of course, this man still has the choice to reject God again in the future but as long as he is repentant, he can have confidence that his God will receive him after he dies.

 

[Simplelogic]

David clearly understood his righteousness MERITED God's favor:

21Yehovah rewarded me according to my righteousness: according to the cleanness of my hands hath he recompensed me.

22For(because) I have kept the ways of Yehovah, and have not wickedly departed from my God.

23For(because) all his judgments were before me: and as for his statutes, I did not depart from them.

24I was also upright before him, and have kept myself from mine iniquity.

25Therefore Yehovah hath recompensed me according to my righteousness; according to my cleanness in his eye sight. 2 Samuel 22: 21-25