Would Jesus put up with the very wealthy and very poor?

[Kenny]

Fair enough.
Jesus scorned the careless rich. In his time that was the Levite clan which included the Priesthood. Look at how he cut in to them both in this parable:-

Luke:- . {10:31} And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. {10:32} And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked [on him,] and passed by on the other side. {10:33} But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion [on him, ]{10:34} And went to [him,] and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
(See how Jesus scorned the rich and leaders in the above story!)

Was the issue there "rich and leaders" or was the issue love your neighbor as yourself. "Who is my neighbor?

Was the Samaritan rich enough not only to help the man, give him food and medicine and leave a message "whatever the tab is, when I come back I will pay for it"?

Jesus had no problem with this rich man because his heart was right, For the careless and uncaring, whether rich, middle class or poor... I don't think Jesus like it.

 

[Kenny]

Fair enough.
Jesus scorned the careless rich. In his time that was the Levite clan which included the Priesthood. Look at how he cut in to them both in this parable:-

Luke:- . {10:31} And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. {10:32} And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked [on him,] and passed by on the other side. {10:33} But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion [on him, ]{10:34} And went to [him,] and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
(See how Jesus scorned the rich and leaders in the above story!)

Let's look at Zacchaeus -- apparently a very rich man...

8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord: Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.
9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Rich enough to give 1/2 to the poor and pay back four times whatever he took by a false accusation when he was tax collecting..

Apparently rich enough to stay solvent.

 

[firedragon]

Would Jesus put up with unreasonable wealth and unreasonable poverty?
He didn't accept it back then, and I don't think he would now.
He would definitely support the centre-left, I think.

You should confirm this with the prosperity gospelers.

Why do you think he would support the centre-left? If with that what you mean is neutral to stinking rich? Its an interesting take.

 

[oldbadger]

Conservative, conshemrvative. Of course the establishment isn't necessarily who is currently the president or prime minister. It goes deeper than that. Besides Boris has been a let down to many British conservatives.

Your posts, including the above, suggest that you are more political than religious.
You only answered the 'political' sentence.

I'm interested in talking to Christians who follow what Jesus said and did, and in every description in the Gospel of Mark he was absolutely dedicated to fair leadership which was dedicated to all, not just the fat, corrupted Priesthood.

I don't know the religions of all members but so far it is my impression that only agnostics and atheists have fully supported what Jesus said.

There's another thread.....right there.

 

[oldbadger]

Didn't accept it?

Matthew 26 says

6 Now when Jesus was at Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, 7 a woman came up to him with an alabaster flask of very expensive ointment, and she poured it on his head, as he sat at table. 8 But when the disciples saw it, they were indignant, saying, "Why this waste? 9 For this ointment might have been sold for a large sum, and given to the poor." 10 But Jesus, aware of this, said to them, "Why do you trouble the woman? For she has done a beautiful thing to me. 11 For you always have the poor with you, but you will not always have me.​

That sounds like acceptance to me.

But then there's always Matthew 19

20 The young man said to him, "All these I have observed; what do I still lack?" 21 Jesus said to him, "If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me."22 When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions. 23 And Jesus said to his disciples, "Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."​

Though as I understand it, the idea that the rich have their own heaven is still very popular.

I really should take the time to check what the Jesuses of Paul, Mark, Luke and John say on the subject, just to be fair, of course.

Hi blü....... (where did you get that 'u' from? )
That first verse shows that Jesus didn't want to bully a woman (Magdalene maybe?) for spending upon him, but he did want to show his feelings for the poor by mentioning the first words of a Poor Law:-
Deuteronomy {15:11} For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land.
(Powerful words!)

So far (it seems) the majority of support for what Jesus said and did has come from non-Christian members. That's a thread for the future.

 

[oldbadger]

And hippies took part in many riots. They were furious about the US imperialism, corruption, inequalities and wars.

What's all this fuss about hippies and long hair?
Do you live in the States?
There are hundreds of millions of folks in the States and about half the voters are left of centre. Now go to any high street and see how many have coloured hair or whatever.

I'm interested to discover who would support Jesus's ideas about wealth and poverty and so far it looks as if it's the agnostics and atheists who warm (most) to what he said and did.

 

[oldbadger]

Which command Jesus obeyed and was constantly giving to the poor. But he doesn't even make a brother divide the inheritance with his brother. (Luke 12:14) There is a difference between preaching/teaching that people should give to the poor and forcing them to do so. I don't see Jesus advocating theft under color of law.

As if Jesus would bother about one rich brother with inheritance giving to an envious greedy brother without! Jesus only spoke out for fair distribution of wealth.
You should have read further, 74x12.....

{12:16} And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth
plentifully: {12:17} And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits? {12:18} And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods. {12:19} And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, [and] be merry. {12:20} But God
said unto him, [Thou] fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided? {12:21} So [is] he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.

 

[74x12]

Your posts, including the above, suggest that you are more political than religious.
You only answered the 'political' sentence.

I'm interested in talking to Christians who follow what Jesus said and did, and in every description in the Gospel of Mark he was absolutely dedicated to fair leadership which was dedicated to all, not just the fat, corrupted Priesthood.

I don't know the religions of all members but so far it is my impression that only agnostics and atheists have fully supported what Jesus said.

There's another thread.....right there.

I think it is you who are political. You just want to claim that Jesus is a milk-toast centrist liberal who supports radical liberals because they just have to win and that's the only way. Wrong. Jesus is not like that.

As you can see from my first post liberals are not really helping the poor. You didn't address any of that you just started talking about giving to the poor but there is a lot more to it than such simplistic thinking. No wonder you can support liberal causes. You must hold your eyes shut, hold your nose from the wretched smell and then cast your ballot.

So you think Jesus is just going to go along with delusional thinking and pretend that the liberal establishment is helping the poor when it isn't? They're the ultimate hypocrites.

And we haven't even gotten into the immorality that the average centrist liberal supports.

 

[74x12]

As if Jesus would bother about one rich brother with inheritance giving to an envious greedy brother without! Jesus only spoke out for fair distribution of wealth.
You should have read further, 74x12.....

{12:16} And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth
plentifully: {12:17} And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits? {12:18} And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods. {12:19} And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, [and] be merry. {12:20} But God
said unto him, [Thou] fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided? {12:21} So [is] he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.

I did read further. I just don't see where it says in there that the government should make people do this or that with their own money. That's called theocracy. I support freedom of religion because I believe that's the only way I will ever be able to worship God as I see fit. So I can't force my religious views on others and neither should you.

 

[oldbadger]

He absolutely was against that. In my opinion He gave the OT poor laws, so it shows His values.

Yes! Every word and action of Jesus was about fair division of wealth.
But as you will be aware, some Christians don't notice what Jesus said and did.

 

[oldbadger]

I like that verse. Even if I don't follow Christianity anymore, it's definitely powerful in its context to be aware that there are those who are in less fortunate circumstances than others.

Absolutely!
These lands are filled full of the Abled and the Disabled.
The Disabled need to be supported if there is to be a cohesive society, just as layed down in the Laws of Moses.

 

[oldbadger]

Was the issue there "rich and leaders" or was the issue love your neighbor as yourself. "Who is my neighbor?

Was the Samaritan rich enough not only to help the man, give him food and medicine and leave a message "whatever the tab is, when I come back I will pay for it"?

Jesus had no problem with this rich man because his heart was right, For the careless and uncaring, whether rich, middle class or poor... I don't think Jesus like it.

It's interesting how Jesus spoke of a Levite and a Priest caring nothing for a disabled man. The Levites were the Upper Class and there was no middle class.

Of course the Samaritan had funds! But he was an outsider who did not worship at that Temple.

The message is clear......... Wealth was not supporting the disabled, and wealth absolutely certainly should, Ken.

 

[oldbadger]

Let's look at Zacchaeus -- apparently a very rich man...

8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord: Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.
9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Rich enough to give 1/2 to the poor and pay back four times whatever he took by a false accusation when he was tax collecting..

Apparently rich enough to stay solvent.

And that will do very nicely........... Unreasonable wealth giving half to the unreasonably poor.
half of my goods I give to the poor; and in addition to that he promised to give restitution to every person that he had scammed.

Now let the wealthy do that and we might end the dreadful statistics of rich and poor around the world.

 

[oldbadger]

You should confirm this with the prosperity gospelers.

Why do you think he would support the centre-left? If with that what you mean is neutral to stinking rich? Its an interesting take.

It's all about what Jesus said and did.
A few verses have already showed that, and there will be more..... for sure.

 

[oldbadger]

I think it is you who are political. You just want to claim that Jesus is a milk-toast centrist liberal who supports radical liberals because they just have to win and that's the only way. Wrong. Jesus is not like that..

Then show us what Jesus is like!
Post up verses that show what Jesus said and did.

Wherever you look....... :-
Mark , {4:19} And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches............................ choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

 

[oldbadger]

I did read further. I just don't see where it says in there that the government should make people do this or that with their own money. That's called theocracy.

Wrong. Jesus lived in a Theocracy riddled with greed, wealth, corruption and hypocrisy.

I support freedom of religion because I believe that's the only way I will ever be able to worship God as I see fit. So I can't force my religious views on others and neither should you.

This thread is about what Jesus said and did. You can follow what he said and did or you can do something (anything) else, 74x12. If you don't follow his words and actions, then you don't.......

Mark {10:21} Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor,

............. obviously nobody has to go poor in order to help the poor, but fair taxation and a good system to catch the tax avoiders and evaders would fix the problems.

You support taxation, it just needs some tweeking, is all.

 

[firedragon]

It's all about what Jesus said and did.
A few verses have already showed that, and there will be more..... for sure.

Which verses shows that "would support the centre-left? If with that what you mean is neutral to stinking rich?"

If that is not what you meant, I take that question back and would like your clarification.

 

[oldbadger]

Which verses shows that "would support the centre-left? If with that what you mean is neutral to stinking rich?"

If that is not what you meant, I take that question back and would like your clarification.

I'm on my mobile just now and so cannot show verses.

This thread is mostly about what Jesus said and did, and it looks to me as if Jesus was for social progress and a community that supports it's disabled and poor.

A lot of Christians do not seem to support such ideas, which is interesting.

 

[firedragon]

I'm on my mobile just now and so cannot show verses.

This thread is mostly about what Jesus said and did, and it looks to me as if Jesus was for social progress and a community that supports it's disabled and poor.

A lot of Christians do not seem to support such ideas, which is interesting.

Its not a problem at all if you are on your mobile. Please when you can, provide the verses that shows that Jesus was "would support the centre-left? If with that what you mean is neutral to stinking rich?".

From the bible scholars that I have seen all I have really heard of is that Jesus was for reversal of society. He was all about the poor. I am only referring to the Gospels. Thats it.

That is why I am interested in seeing the verses you refer to. Some prosperity gospel preachers do quote some verses in the Gospels to promote their church or evangelical movement and in doing so they do make a hell of a lot of money. I just want to see what verses you are referring to.

I will not debate you.

 

[oldbadger]

Its not a problem at all if you are on your mobile. Please when you can, provide the verses that shows that Jesus was "would support the centre-left? If with that what you mean is neutral to stinking rich?".

From the bible scholars that I have seen all I have really heard of is that Jesus was for reversal of society. He was all about the poor. I am only referring to the Gospels. Thats it.

Exactly..... We can only refer to the gospels for info about what Jesus said or did. And they show that Jesus was set against the greedy rich corrupted priesthood and all of the Levite clan. Of course there were good people within those groups as well.

There are many verses which show that Jesus was dead set against hidden wealth, evasion and avoidance of taxation, the lot.

But some Christians seem not to support his viewpoints?