Would you convert?

[Halcyon]

You know I'm actually pretty surprised at the number of people so far who apparently wouldn't even consider converting. It seems to me that there is a point where stubbornness is counter-productive.

This is the same reason that i said i'd convert if the BoM were proven undeniably true.

I remember you said you would be disappointed if i converted just because the BoM were proven true, how is that different to the Spirit Prison being proven true though?

 

[nutshell]

I think we're missing one important fact. When we die, we are still the same person we were in this life. If someone has been clearly presented LDS teachings in this life and had trouble accepting them, they will continue to have this trouble in the next life (Spirit Prison). It's not like there will be bumper stickers proclaiming "Mormons were right!"

 

[Halcyon]

I think we're missing one important fact. When we die, we are still the same person we were in this life. If someone has been clearly presented LDS teachings in this life and had trouble accepting them, they will continue to have this trouble in the next life (Spirit Prison). It's not like there will be bumper stickers proclaiming "Mormons were right!"

Well, the big "bumper sticker" would be the fact that the after life is exactly how you describe it - plus all the Mormon missionaries preaching. Will there be other preachers in Paradise, or only Mormons?

 

[uumckk16]

IMHO, I don't think that it is a matter of being stubborn. I think it a matter of how the question is being read.

To be honest, I had to read through your first post a few times to make sure that I understood it correctly. I think people are, for the most part, over looking the main point of your question.

What I was seeing at first was - Would you convert? rather than -Would you convert if you found out that the beliefs of the LDSs were true after you died?

Agreed. At first I wasn't sure what the question was either.

But since it has been cleared up...yes, I would convert. If I died and found that the LDS were right, of course I would convert. I wouldn't deny such clear evidence.

 

[Booko]

Well, yes, that's what I was getting at. We've explained on numerous occasions (many of them very recently) what we believe it's going to be like for us all immediately after we die. My question was essentially this: If you died and found that your situation was exactly as the LDS had said it would be, would that be enough to make you stop and think, "Hmmm. Maybe there really was something to what they were saying. If they were right about what's happening to me now, maybe they're really onto something about what's going to happen next. It might not be such a dumb idea to reconsider my beliefs." The fact that most people are saying, "No, even with that much evidence that the LDS knew what they were talking about, I'm still not going to budge," surprises me. I think of myself as pretty firm in my own convictions, but if I were to die and find myself in a state entirely unlike the one I believe I'd find myself in, I'd absolutely jump at the chance to reconsider my options.

Well, that's why I said I would convert.

After all, I've had two major paradigm shifts just in this life -- what's another one?

 

[Booko]

I've been trying to think of other situations like this. Here is what I have come up with.

I will soon be living in Lynchburg VA. If suddenly one day the large majority of Jerry Falwell's Liberty University students suddenly disappear - I'd quickly rethink my belief that the Rapture isn't going to happen.

It rather reminds me of that terrible "Left Behind" movie -- where all these people go POOF! and everyone else is so dumb they have no clue what happened.

It's one thing to believe that Rev.Darby was full of beans with his interpretation of the Rapture, but it's another not to have even heard of it...

Likewise (and trying to stay on topic) if you know what LDS teaches and you die and it's exactly like that, wouldnl't taht be a little obvious, and therefore hard to argue with?

Personally I think all human ideas about the nature of the afterlife are so wrong we will all have a good laugh about our poor approximations when we die, but that's just me.

 

[nutshell]

Well, the big "bumper sticker" would be the fact that the after life is exactly how you describe it - plus all the Mormon missionaries preaching. Will there be other preachers in Paradise, or only Mormons?

I believe the term "Mormon" is an earthly label. I doubt in Spirit Prison the preachers/teachers will be wearing black name tags that say, "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

Also, if the afterlife is exactly how a person understood it based onthe LDS teachings they heard on earth, then perhaps it is too late for that person - they've already had a chance. Only God knows for sure.

 

[SoyLeche]

It rather reminds me of that terrible "Left Behind" movie -- where all these people go POOF! and everyone else is so dumb they have no clue what happened.

It's one thing to believe that Rev.Darby was full of beans with his interpretation of the Rapture, but it's another not to have even heard of it...

That's the main reason I reject the idea that the "Mark of the Beast" will be some microchip implanted in your arm. At this point, if anyone were to even suggest that everyone be required to have something like that, all hell would break loose from anyone having even heard of the theory, and not just the Fundies

Likewise (and trying to stay on topic) if you know what LDS teaches and you die and it's exactly like that, wouldnl't taht be a little obvious, and therefore hard to argue with?

Personally I think all human ideas about the nature of the afterlife are so wrong we will all have a good laugh about our poor approximations when we die, but that's just me.

I seriously doubt that it will be obvious that the LDS are right. I bet it'll be more like - "So where is St. Peter and those Pearly Gates everyone was talking about. Isn't that Hitler? Shouldn't he be buning in that lake of fire and brimstone? This isn't what I was expecting. Where are Jesus and God anyway? I thought they'd be here." Then someone comes up and tells the same story about the Plan of Salvation that the LDS have been carrying on about, saying you can still receive a baptism. I wouldn't be surprised if there were still other ideas being preached as well.

 

[nutshell]

Agreed. At first I wasn't sure what the question was either.

But since it has been cleared up...yes, I would convert. If I died and found that the LDS were right, of course I would convert. I wouldn't deny such clear evidence.

I would argue that there isn't going to be any additional evidence in Spirit Prison than there is in this life.

 

[nutshell]

It rather reminds me of that terrible "Left Behind" movie -- where all these people go POOF! and everyone else is so dumb they have no clue what happened.

It's one thing to believe that Rev.Darby was full of beans with his interpretation of the Rapture, but it's another not to have even heard of it...

Likewise (and trying to stay on topic) if you know what LDS teaches and you die and it's exactly like that, wouldnl't taht be a little obvious, and therefore hard to argue with?

Personally I think all human ideas about the nature of the afterlife are so wrong we will all have a good laugh about our poor approximations when we die, but that's just me.

If you have this knowledge and choose not to accept it in this life then you aren't going to have the chance to accept it in the next. Just my opinion. God will decide.

 

[Booko]

If you have this knowledge and choose not to accept it in this life then you aren't going to have the chance to accept it in the next. Just my opinion. God will decide.

That would make a bit more sense, from my pov.

Although I've never been quite sure about exactly what it is I must accept.

I'm forever being told by Christians that I have to accept Jesus.

Well, duh, from my pov I already have. You can't be a Baha'i unless you believe Jesus...so the problem is...what?

Maybe this will help you understand my quandary when it comes to things like this.

 

[nutshell]

That would make a bit more sense, from my pov.

Although I've never been quite sure about exactly what it is I must accept.

I'm forever being told by Christians that I have to accept Jesus.

Well, duh, from my pov I already have. You can't be a Baha'i unless you believe Jesus...so the problem is...what?

Maybe this will help you understand my quandary when it comes to things like this.

Booko, that's an excellent post. Thank you for the clarification.

From the LDS pov, we must accept Jesus, which includes doing all that He has asked us to do, such as get baptized, receive the Holy Ghost, etc etc. To be honest, getting baptized is just the beginning. There are more ordinances we do in this life and for the dead, but I won't get into those since this thread is specifically about baptism.

 

[uumckk16]

I would argue that there isn't going to be any additional evidence in Spirit Prison than there is in this life.

Wouldn't the fact that you were in Spirit Prison be quite a bit of evidence? Plus, I thought the belief stated that LDS would teach the Gospel in the Spirit World as well, and once you'd accepted that and you were baptized (and had accepted your baptism) you could move on. At least, that's the impression I got from Kathryn's posts on the subject.

Do the LDS believe that we will remember this life in the next?

 

[nutshell]

Wouldn't the fact that you were in Spirit Prison be quite a bit of evidence? Plus, I thought the belief stated that LDS would teach the Gospel in the Spirit World as well, and once you'd accepted that and you were baptized (and had accepted your baptism) you could move on. At least, that's the impression I got from Kathryn's posts on the subject.

Do the LDS believe that we will remember this life in the next?

I don't believe you'll understand that you are in Spirit Prison. If you understand this then you've probably already had your chance on earth and won't be getting another one - but that is for God to decide.

Yes, once you accept a proxy baptism you will move on.

In the next life you will still be the same person, but while in Spirit Prison I'm not sure how much you will or will not remember of your earthly life.




One thing I want to be clear about is that Spirit Prison is NOT for second chances. It's for those who didn't have their fair shot while on earth. We all only get ONE chance and God being the fair and just and merciful being that He is will make sure that everyone will receive an equal chance.

 

[cardero]

I think we're missing one important fact. When we die, we are still the same person we were in this life. If someone has been clearly presented LDS teachings in this life and had trouble accepting them, they will continue to have this trouble in the next life (Spirit Prison). It's not like there will be bumper stickers proclaiming "Mormons were right!"

I would believe that we are the accumulative experiences of all our physical existences joined with the personality of our spiritual endeavors when we die. I also believe that this accumulative wisdom would blend together seamlessly. I also believe that no one will recognize their practiced faith once this state of BEing is reached. In other words there are not any practicing human religious denominations in the spiritual realm.

 

[PureX]

I would refuse to convert out of pure SPITE! *smile*

 

[Katzpur]

Now I must ask all of you, if you found out that the Religion of Islam was the true religion and Muhammed was constantly reciting Quran for you to hear and learn, would you listen?

Absolutely. What on earth would anyone stand to gain by refusing to believe something God personally revealed -- provided it was clear that it was truly God revealing it (which, in the situation I described in my OP, would certainly be the case). To simply say, "Well, regardless of what I ultimately found to be the truth, if it didn't happen to appeal to me, I'd reject it," is unbelievably short-sighted in my opinion. To say, "I like my concept of truth better than I like God's," strikes me as being totally lacking in common sense.

 

[cardero]

Absolutely. What on earth would anyone stand to gain by refusing to believe something God personally revealed -- provided it was clear that it was truly God revealing it (which, in the situation I described in my OP, would certainly be the case). To simply say, "Well, regardless of what I ultimately found to be the truth, if it didn't happen to appeal to me, I'd reject it," is unbelievably short-sighted in my opinion. To say, "I like my concept of truth better than I like God's," strikes me as being totally lacking in common sense.

Maybe so but could you respect someone who said that? Do you think that GOD would understand or do you think that He would be offended?

 

[Katzpur]

I would always accept God on His own terms.
It would not be a matter of "Converting"
There is no chance at all that "any of us" will have all our
beliefs and understandings 100% right.

That's actually a very good point. I highly doubt that there are going to be Mormons or Lutherans or Catholics in the Spirit World. There will just be people continuing to look for truth. And it seems to me that it shouldn't matter all that much where that truth might be found.

 

[Katzpur]

This is the same reason that i said i'd convert if the BoM were proven undeniably true.

I remember you said you would be disappointed if i converted just because the BoM were proven true, how is that different to the Spirit Prison being proven true though?

It's not. I guess you just proved that.