Yadavas Hebrews farmers. How come Jews thought Hebrews were slaves?

[rosends]

Again, you enjoy trying to discredit but care nothing of the wisdom, 'that eventually the truth does unveil'


See Isa 11, nehemiah 8............... are you just that hateful, that you care nothing of what is coming and only to preserve your narrative.

you just don't like that I don't swallow your particular misreading of text, a misreading which you insist is some sort of wisdom.

The primary reason a christian religious exists, is because many thought jesus was that person, the jewish messiah.

yup. And they are wrong.

 

[Bthoth]

And Maat was around long before Akhenaten.

How long are you going to keep trying to set your strawman on fire?

The fire is helping people realize that magic did not create the rules and each can be good all by themselves, without a leadership telling people how to think.

Does that scare you?

Do you believe that you owe your next generation(s) a chance at comprehending life and how to be good without any authority telling you or them, that you must comply with their religion?

If the next generations are not better and more capable than 'we' are, then 'we' all failed.

 

[Bthoth]

you just don't like that I don't swallow your particular misreading of text, a misreading which you insist is some sort of wisdom.

The torah itself has many translations. Midrash/talmud interpretations are just opinions to assist with comprehending torah wisdom.

yup. And they are wrong.

Why? Because few had ever taught the original jews, what to look for. You still have no idea what are the key important points to await and look for.

aka... kingship is not a key, Of nazarith is not even relevant. Blood line of david, does not even make sense.

But capable of unveiling what is real. DOES make sense to a rational mind. A human being that can enable each to know and understand how to live forever is perhaps the single greatest gift, that even a god could offer or give to mankind.

Heck, I am betting that you could not explain the difference of conscious life and instinctive living processes let alone combine the commandments with the moral application of each choice.

I could just imagine what ahkenatan or moses was going thru during the emancipation period (exodus).

I am well aware that nothing will stop a prophecy (vision) as I understand how they occur. Do you have any idea or are you still using magic or that a god saithith so?

 

[River Sea]

The Real History of South Asia

1900 BC- the Indus Valley Civilization, after centuries of decline resulting from droughts and other natural disasters, finally collapses. 1500 BC- nomadic tribes of Indo-European speakers from the steppes of Central Asia migrate to South Asia, bringing with them superior weapons technology in...

www.religiousforums.com

@Lalith Ramesh you wrote in your thread
1900 BC- the Indus Valley Civilization, after centuries of decline resulting from droughts and other natural disasters, finally collapses.

My question is
Do you think this drought happened because the Yamuna River at one time flowed west, then eastward due to tectonic uplift, causing Yadavas to leave due to the drought?

 

[River Sea]

Many traveled thru and to the levant.

Egypt was a huge food bank to the mediteranian. The levant was used for trading for 1000's of years.

See the Amarna letters for Egypt and levant.

""Two types of letters can be distinguished. The first (more common) type comprises letters written from rulers of cities and small kingdoms in the Levant—an area controlled by Egypt in the New Kingdom period—that were vassals of the Egyptian king. These rulers write deferentially to the king (identifying him as “the Sun, my lord,” and referring to themselves as “your servant”) and relate squabbles with other Levantine rulers, list concerns with Egyptian administration, or discuss trade and tribute. One letter in the Museum’s collection from Abi-milku, ruler of the coastal city of Tyre, shows how these Levantine kings depicted themselves as dependent upon their Egyptian overlord (24.2.12). In addition to the many letters sent by Abi-milku of Tyre, the Amarna tablets include letters from the rulers of many Levantine cities from Ugarit in the north to Gaza in the south.""


Then prior to the amarna letters that are from the 1400 BC time period the archaeological studies show even more egyptian-levant mechanism:


These specific Levantine-Egyptian contacts continued during the early third millennium b.c.e.; it has been hypothesized that Syro-Palestinian exports by this time included wine, oil, honey, perfume, and textiles, exchanged for Egyptian stone vessels, jewelry, precious stones, and various perishable items. Use of the overland trade route to and from Egypt temporarily diminished with the close of the Early Bronze II period, however, and was supplanted, or at least enhanced, by a maritime route leading between Egypt and coastal Syria. In part as a response to the growing need for timber in the ancient world, the coastal cities of Syria–Lebanon .

Trade and Exchange in the Levant pg 360

No idea about tectonic historical record. Is that prior to stone age?


The term israel did not exist before jacob - torah that I ever read about. Even the amarna letter do not have an 'israel' and that is in egyptian cuneiform.


My point was, there was no exudus from egypt, to an egyptian vassal (new kingdom/levant) as a promised land . That is strictly story telling embellished by religious zealots.




OK


Not sure. I could use the education if you can show the time frames as relevant to modern man (approximately bronze age or just before)

@Bthoth
you wrote

"Two types of letters can be distinguished. The first (more common) type comprises letters written from rulers of cities and small kingdoms in the Levant—an area controlled by Egypt in the New Kingdom period—that were vassals of the Egyptian king. These rulers write deferentially to the king (identifying him as “the Sun, my lord,

I ask:
So there's a little Kingdom that is controlled by Egypt according to your view, how come that little place was controlled by Egypt?

Add edit: Moses was born in 1525 BC, so maybe Amenhotep during 1525 BC to 1504 BC would be more suited for wondering of similarities with either Jarasandha or Kamsa, because Ahmose 1550 BC to 1525 BC

@Bthoth
From your website you shared and suddenly I saw Ahmose’ Egypt in the New Kingdom (ca. 1550–1070 B.C.) | Essay | The Metropolitan Museum of Art | Heilbrunn Timeline of Art History

So then you comprehend the new kingdom as Egypt, then, am I understanding correctly?

Example from website: This was finally accomplished by Ahmose I, who reunited Egypt, ushering in the New Kingdom

According to @Bharat Jhunjhunwala there's either no Pharaohs or Jarasandha and maybe also Kamsa are the Pharaohs. He's still researching this

According to you @Bthoth The new kingdom is Egypt, and one of the pharaohs was Ahmose. Would there be any parallels or similarities with Ahmose, Jarasandha, or Kamsa? (added edit) actually it would be Amenhotep because both Moses, Krishna, and Amenhotep, Jarasandha, Kamsa alive in a closer time

Add edit: Moses was born in 1525 BC, so maybe Amenhotep during 1525 BC to 1504 BC would be more suited for wondering of similarities with either Jarasandha or Kamsa, because Ahmose 1550 BC to 1525 BC

 

[crossfire]

The fire is helping people realize that magic did not create the rules and each can be good all by themselves, without a leadership telling people how to think.

Does that scare you?

Actually, the human race has come a long way.

Do you believe that you owe your next generation(s) a chance at comprehending life and how to be good without any authority telling you or them, that you must comply with their religion?

I certainly haven't heard the Jews saying this.

If the next generations are not better and more capable than 'we' are, then 'we' all failed.

I would say that the general trend has been that the human race has been moving forward. Granted, we have had our setbacks here and there, but we have learned from our past mistakes.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

@Bthoth
you wrote



I ask:
So there's a little Kingdom that is controlled by Egypt according to your view, how come that little place was controlled by Egypt?

Add edit: Moses was born in 1525 BC, so maybe Amenhotep during 1525 BC to 1504 BC would be more suited for wondering of similarities with either Jarasandha or Kamsa, because Ahmose 1550 BC to 1525 BC

@Bthoth
From your website you shared and suddenly I saw Ahmose’ Egypt in the New Kingdom (ca. 1550–1070 B.C.) | Essay | The Metropolitan Museum of Art | Heilbrunn Timeline of Art History

So then you comprehend the new kingdom as Egypt, then, am I understanding correctly?

Example from website: This was finally accomplished by Ahmose I, who reunited Egypt, ushering in the New Kingdom

According to @Bharat Jhunjhunwala there's either no Pharaohs or Jarasandha and maybe also Kamsa are the Pharaohs. He's still researching this

According to you @Bthoth The new kingdom is Egypt, and one of the pharaohs was Ahmose. Would there be any parallels or similarities with Ahmose, Jarasandha, or Kamsa? (added edit) actually it would be Amenhotep because both Moses, Krishna, and Amenhotep, Jarasandha, Kamsa alive in a closer time

Add edit: Moses was born in 1525 BC, so maybe Amenhotep during 1525 BC to 1504 BC would be more suited for wondering of similarities with either Jarasandha or Kamsa, because Ahmose 1550 BC to 1525 BC

Time is one important consideration but we need to work with genealogy, archaeogy and geography also.

 

[Aupmanyav]

My question is
Do you think this drought happened because the Yamuna River at one time flowed west, then eastward due to tectonic uplift, causing Yadavas to leave due to the drought?

Say people associated with Indus Valley civilization and not Yadavas. There is no evidence that Indus Valley people were Yadavas.
A tectonic shift did possibly occur, River Yamuna moved east and did not connect with Sarasvati as it may have done earlier.
But the archaeological evidence is that the Indus Valley people also moved East to Indo-Gangetic plains.
Why would they move West where they will encounter the arid regions of Afghanistan, Balochistan and Iran?
Does that make sense (in other words, it is nonsense)?

Decline of the Indus River Valley Civilization (c. 3300-1300 BCE) - Climate in Arts and History

What happened? The Indus River Valley Civilization, also known as the Harappan Civilization, was one of the three early civilizations in northwestern South Asia, along with Egypt and Mesopotamia. It was located in what is now Pakistan and northwestern India. This civilization existed between...

www.science.smith.edu

 

[Aupmanyav]

Even the mythological capitals of Pandavas (Indraprastha, Delhi) and Kauravas (Hastinapur) of Mahabharata were in that region, the first on the banks of Yamuna and the second on the banks of Ganges..

 

[rosends]

The torah itself has many translations. Midrash/talmud interpretations are just opinions to assist with comprehending torah wisdom.

That is your belief. Judaism teaches otherwise.

Why? Because few had ever taught the original jews, what to look for. You still have no idea what are the key important points to await and look for.

aka... kingship is not a key, Of nazarith is not even relevant. Blood line of david, does not even make sense.

But capable of unveiling what is real. DOES make sense to a rational mind. A human being that can enable each to know and understand how to live forever is perhaps the single greatest gift, that even a god could offer or give to mankind.

Heck, I am betting that you could not explain the difference of conscious life and instinctive living processes let alone combine the commandments with the moral application of each choice.

I could just imagine what ahkenatan or moses was going thru during the emancipation period (exodus).

I am well aware that nothing will stop a prophecy (vision) as I understand how they occur. Do you have any idea or are you still using magic or that a god saithith so?

You seem to have a very colorful imagination. I wish you the best of luck with your various beliefs.

 

[River Sea]

Circumcision is first noted in Egyptian temple hieroglyphics dated to 4000 BCE, depicting young men restrained with a priest performing the cut wielding a knife

@Bthoth
What about lip stretching in 1500 BC Lip plate - Wikipedia

Archaeological evidence indicates that disk and plate labrets have been invented multiple times including in Africa (Sudan and Ethiopia; 5500–6000 BC)[1] Mesoamerica (1500 BC)

Where's Mesoamerica?

So far in India @Bharat Jhunjhunwala there's no body modifications

I can't comprehend a life long reminder of having a body modifications - can you comprehend this, how do people handle that stress of body modifications of any kind?

@Bthoth view is Egypt while @Bharat Jhunjhunwala view is Indus Valley India

 

[River Sea]

Say people associated with Indus Valley civilization and not Yadavas. There is no evidence that Indus Valley people were Yadavas.
A tectonic shift did possibly occur, River Yamuna moved east and did not connect with Sarasvati as it may have done earlier.
But the archaeological evidence is that the Indus Valley people also moved East to Indo-Gangetic plains.
Why would they move West where they will encounter the arid regions of Afghanistan, Balochistan and Iran?
Does that make sense (in other words, it is nonsense)?

@Aupmanyav
What about the Yamuna River during the time the river was flowing west and the people who already lived west of the river Yamuna? I think they travel some but remain west of the river. However, an interesting question is: when the river stopped flowing west and flowed east, how come people didn't move east of this river instead left Indus Valley and traveled far?

 

[crossfire]

@Aupmanyav
What about the Yamuna River during the time the river was flowing west and the people who already lived west of the river Yamuna? I think they travel some but remain west of the river. However, an interesting question is: when the river stopped flowing west and flowed east, how come people didn't move east of this river instead left Indus Valley and traveled far?

The only reason I could see for people heading for the desert instead of the more fertile land would be that they were driven out of the land, just as the Pharaoh Ahmose is credited with driving the Hyksos out of Egypt. Many believe the Jews left with them.

Hyksos - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Bthoth]

@Bthoth
you wrote



I ask:
So there's a little Kingdom that is controlled by Egypt according to your view, how come that little place was controlled by Egypt?

Trade

Add edit: Moses was born in 1525 BC, so maybe Amenhotep during 1525 BC to 1504 BC would be more suited for wondering of similarities with either Jarasandha or Kamsa, because Ahmose 1550 BC to 1525 BC

Lots of opinions on the dates. For comparing the people, I prefer identifying what both did as the importance.
Monotheism, + + + +

@Bthoth
From your website you shared and suddenly I saw Ahmose’ Egypt in the New Kingdom (ca. 1550–1070 B.C.) | Essay | The Metropolitan Museum of Art | Heilbrunn Timeline of Art History

So then you comprehend the new kingdom as Egypt, then, am I understanding correctly?

The New Kingdom was the levant. Yes egyption vassal. Read the Amarna tablets..... hundreds of them from that time period

Example from website: This was finally accomplished by Ahmose I, who reunited Egypt, ushering in the New Kingdom

Thanks for the clarification: the land mass, was under egyptian rule before Moses was even born..... attaboy!

According to @Bharat Jhunjhunwala there's either no Pharaohs or Jarasandha and maybe also Kamsa are the Pharaohs. He's still researching this

You appear to be learning too.

According to you @Bthoth The new kingdom is Egypt, and one of the pharaohs was Ahmose. Would there be any parallels or similarities with Ahmose, Jarasandha, or Kamsa?

Spell them out, please.

(added edit) actually it would be Amenhotep because both Moses, Krishna, and Amenhotep, Jarasandha, Kamsa alive in a closer time

Add edit: Moses was born in 1525 BC, so maybe Amenhotep during 1525 BC to 1504 BC would be more suited for wondering of similarities with either Jarasandha or Kamsa, because Ahmose 1550 BC to 1525 BC

Pretty close dates but of the names that you mention, Moses has no record besides in theology, which it the weakest link of the group to use as evidence

Facts stand that the levant was egypts New Kingdom, during any time claimed to be an exodus. So the query: What's an exodus from egypt to egyptian lands, the levant? That's the weird part that is not contestable.

 

[Bthoth]

Time is one important consideration but we need to work with genealogy, archaeogy and geography also.

See Amarna tablets for archaeology bridging that the (new kingdom/levant) vassal was in fact egyptian held.

 

[Aupmanyav]

@Aupmanyav
What about the Yamuna River during the time the river was flowing west and the people who already lived west of the river Yamuna? I think they travel some but remain west of the river. However, an interesting question is: when the river stopped flowing west and flowed east, how come people didn't move east of this river instead left Indus Valley and traveled far?

Only Yamuna is supposed to have moved East with the tectonic movement raising the divide between the Indus catchment area and the Ganges catchment area. As for Sutlej, it meanders in a plain and has changed its course many a times in history. Sites of late Harappan culture exist even in east of Yamuna (see the Post-Harappan image in my post # 408). People, then moved further East along the river Ganges clearing the forests and settling down as they went on.

The line going across the image is the disappeared Sarasvati River mentioned in Vedas. It has the maximum Indus Valley sites. Perhaps at one time, Sutlej and Yamuna, both large rivers, joined it making it the most important river in the area. Due to tectonic movement, Sutlej joined Indus and Yamuna joined Ganges, thereby obliterating Sarasvati. That is the area which is supposed to have got raised around 1,900 BCE. Earthquakes are common in Himalayan region. Kalibangan (larger even than Mohenjodaro and Harappa), Ganerwali, Alamgirpur are important Indus Valley sites.

 

[Bthoth]

That is your belief. Judaism teaches otherwise.

Are you denying that midrash and talmud are interpretations of torah?

You seem to have a very colorful imagination. I wish you the best of luck with your various beliefs.

i pointed out, that jesus was claimed to be messiah by many Jews of the time because those people had no idea what a messiah was to do.
Inferring that the leadership of then is very similar to now, misunderstanding the torah and did not teach the students correctly.

Do you think that your religious leadership has given you the tools to know what to look for?

 

[Bthoth]

@Bthoth
What about lip stretching in 1500 BC Lip plate - Wikipedia

Archaeological evidence indicates that disk and plate labrets have been invented multiple times including in Africa (Sudan and Ethiopia; 5500–6000 BC)[1] Mesoamerica (1500 BC)

Where's Mesoamerica?

So far in India @Bharat Jhunjhunwala there's no body modifications

I can't comprehend a life long reminder of having a body modifications - can you comprehend this, how do people handle that stress of body modifications of any kind?

@Bthoth view is Egypt while @Bharat Jhunjhunwala view is Indus Valley India

Did you forget about ear gauges?

 

[rosends]

Are you denying that midrash and talmud are interpretations of torah?

Each might include what you think of as interpretations, but each is a lot more than that.

i pointed out, that jesus was claimed to be messiah by many Jews of the time because those people had no idea what a messiah was to do.
Inferring that the leadership of then is very similar to now, misunderstanding the torah and did not teach the students correctly.

Do you think that your religious leadership has given you the tools to know what to look for?

Yes.

 

[Bthoth]

Each might include what you think of as interpretations, but each is a lot more than that.

Gibberish

I asked you a specific question.

That 'yes' (below) should be you are "denying that midrash and talmud are interpretations of torah?"

Yes.

Then I asked you: "Do you think that your religious leadership has given you the tools to know what to look for?" what to look for as a messiah. I used Jesus as evidence for that question as evidence of the most succinct errors.

Because jews made jesus into a messiah 2000 yrs ago and even today the majority DO NOT accept jesus yet here in today's world the "jews for jesus" movement is increasing.

As I see it, there is no leadership that is comprehensive of what to look for!