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Yadavas Hebrews farmers. How come Jews thought Hebrews were slaves?

River Sea

Well-Known Member
i find that much of the judaic belief system incorporated the ideology of egypt into torah

@Bthoth can you tell me some judaic belief system that's incorporated the ideology of Egypt into Torah, and how do you think this happened?

I read that Moses was murdered.

Freud and Monotheism: Moses and the Violent Origins of Religion


Page 14
Freud’s scandalous claim about the murder of Moses was not the first attempt to uncover the violent end of the first Jewish leader. Freud, in fact, was extremely impressed with a similar claim by Ernst Sellin in his 1922 Mose und seine Bedeutung für die israelitisch-jüdische Religions geschichte. In this controversial work, the German theologian based his argument about the death of Moses in the desert on several ambiguous sentences in Hosea. Freud, however, aimed at much more than a project of biblical exegesis. Moses and Monotheism was a study of the violent origins of religion in general. Building on his work on the first totem religion, Freud assumed that the Israelites, like the brothers in the primal tribe, repented for the murder of Moses and were crushed by their own guilt. Their struggle with their guilt was, however, different from that of the murderous brothers. The brothers in Totem and Taboo went on to replace their dead father with the totem animal and thus created the first religion in history. The Israelites found solace in the image of another, second Moses, a priest of the pagan god Yahweh in Kadesh. This second Moses and his “volcano God, . . . an uncanny, bloodthirsty demon,”9 allowed the Israelites to enjoy a religious sensuality whose renunciation the Egyptian Moses and his abstract God had demanded.
 

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
However, for now, I've learned that Amenhotep IV, who renamed himself Akhenaten, began monotheism due to the threat of having more than one god. Was it more difficult to have a kingdom when having more than one god?
I figured it was because of 2 reasons. 1.... too many priests taking/using.... offerings for their own gain. 2..... realizing that preists are not required for people to be good, if they just know how.
Amenhotep IV, who renamed himself Akhenaten and abolished the worship of the other Egyptian gods.

Maybe because like most rational minds realizing that worship is a waste of time, life and resources.

Are there any similarities in Indus Valley, to whom abolished, the worship of other gods? Are there any mummies in Indus Valley? Or only bones to carry when traveling?

That bones thing, is weird................ pun intended.
What was the reasoning for doing this?
please, i would like to know too.
What does God trade with people? If God doesn't trade how come? Is trade a relationship or only material?
God's are an authority not a grocer/market. The priests made religion a market. See israel and vatican to identify how the business of religion is essential
What was the threat of many gods that Amenhotep IV, who renamed himself Akhenaten and abolished the worship of the other Egyptian gods and began monotheism that Moses continued, and did Moses practice exclusion against any tribes? If so, how come?
I dont see exclusion as the tool, except for priesthood and claimed authority, just like the lines of pharaoh
 

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
@Bthoth can you tell me some judaic belief system that's incorporated the ideology of Egypt into Torah, and how do you think this happened?
how, that guy moses/ahkenatan......... lived in the house of pharaoh since a child/boy. Learning from the libraries of egypt.

Circumcision is an egyptian culture. (soldiers came back from military campaigns with illnesses from the spoils of war (taking the women))
Kosher eating is from the culture of the egyptian royalty. They could not take all offerings from the peasants because if it was not prepared correctly they got sick. So they made laws (by god)(pharaoh), no pork, etc...

Certain clothing; dont mix fibers as they could not be cleaned properly.

The list goes on and on but that is not important
I read that Moses was murdered.
The monotheism change over caused issues..... Moses was said to have had 3000 killed at mt sinai for making a golden calf (hathor-egyptian). So i am sure that many that survived were ticked and could have wanted him dead.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Are there any similarities in Indus Valley, to whom abolished, the worship of other gods? Are there any mummies in Indus Valley? Or only bones to carry when traveling?
@Aupmanyav shows about what Hindus did with bones. What was the reasoning for doing this?
No, there is no indication of worship of any God or Goddess being abolished in Indus Valley. There are no mummies as well. The dead were buried. Cremation is not evidenced.
Two reasons. Immersion of bones in sacred rivers and water bodies is a sort of post-mortem purification of sins that the person may have committed in life. Secondly, that is the tradition in which the person's ancestors have gone, so it is a sort of unification with the ancestors. That also does not need land like in case of a grave, that will be considered a defilement of earth in Hinduism.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
The biblical cisterns were made in outlying areas as in the narrative of abraham. Covered by stone. Closed and reopened. Nothing like that here. Also, can you help with the Hebrew word and it's meaning, please.
These ones aren't even in the region mentioned in Genesis, either, I just put them up as an example.

You can find the text with the Hebrew-English here:
Here is a resource for the word:

STRONGS H953:Abbreviations
† בּוֺר noun masculineGenesis 37:20 pit, cistern, well (= בְּאֹר, MI בר, Arabic
bdb009201
hole or hollow for cooking, Assyrian bûrtum DlPr 182, bûru LotzTP 169) — בּ׳ absolute Genesis 37:22 +; בֹּר Exodus 21:33 (2 Samuel 23:20 Qr, see באר above); construct בּוֺר 2 Kings 10:14 + (2 Samuel 23:15, 16 Qr, see באר above); בֹּ֫רָה (ָ ה locative) Genesis 37:24; suffix בּוֺרוֺ Isaiah 36:16 = בֹּרוֺ 2 Kings 18:31; בּוֺרֶ֑ךָ Proverbs 5:15; plural בֹּרוֺת Genesis 37:20 + 3 times; בֹּרֹת Deuteronomy 6:11: —
1. cistern, containing water, made by digging (חצב) Deuteronomy 6:11; 2 Chronicles 26:10; Nehemiah 9:25; also (without reference to origin) Proverbs 5:15 (|| בְּאֵר) Leviticus 11:36 (|| מַעִיָן), 1 Samuel 19:22; Isaiah 36:16 = 2 Kings 18:31.
2. later apparently well (= בְּאֵר) 1 Chronicles 11:17, 182 Samuel 23:15, 2 Samuel 23:16 (yet now no well at Bethlehem RobBR i. 470, 473 compare also Surveyiii. 28 GuérinJudée i. 130), compare Ecclesiastes 12:6 & Jeremiah 6:7 Kt כְּהָקִיר בו֯ר מֵימֶיהָ as a well casteth out its water (Qr בַּיִר); but הקיר perhaps keep cool, fresh Hi Gf.
3. pit Exodus 21:33 (verb פתח), Exodus 21:33 (כרה), compare Exodus 21:34; compare figurative Psalm 7:16 of wickedness (|| שַׁחַת; verb כרה, חפר); 1 Samuel 13:6 as hiding-place; 2 Samuel 23:20 (Qr) = 1 Chronicles 11:22; 2 Kings 10:14 בּוֺר בֵּית עֵ֫קֶד; of pit into which Joseph was cast Genesis 37:20, Genesis 37:22, Genesis 37:24 (וְהַבּוֺר רֵק אֵין בּוֺ מ֑יִם) Genesis 37:28; Genesis 37:29; Genesis 37:29 (JE), compare further Jeremiah 41:7, Jeremiah 41:9; figurative of Sarah as mother of Israel מַקֶּבֶת בּ׳ Isaiah 51:1; figurative of calamity Psalm 40:3 בּוֺר שָׁאוֺן; compare Psalm 88:7 תַּחְתִּיּוֺת בּ׳.
4. dungeon (pit with no water in it Jeremiah 38:6; Zechariah 9:11 compare Genesis 37:24 above) Genesis 40:13; Genesis 41:14 (E) Isaiah 24:22; Jeremiah 38:6 (twice in verse) (אֵין מַיִם בּ׳) Jeremiah 38:7; Jeremiah 38:9; Jeremiah 38:10; Jeremiah 38:11; Jeremiah 38:13; also בֵּית הַבּוֺר prison Exodus 12:29; Jeremiah 37:16; figurative of exile Zechariah 9:11 (מִבּוֺר אֵין מַיִם בּוֺ); compare also Lamentations 3:53, Lamentations 3:55.
5. (in poetry & late; never with article) pit of the grave Proverbs 28:17; so אַבְנֵי ב׳ stones of the pit Isaiah 14:19 (of sepulchre, walled with stones) & of She’ôl Psalm 30:4 (|| שׁאול); יַרְכְּתֵי ב׳ loins of (the) pit, i.e. remotest pit Isaiah 14:15 (|| שׁאול) Ezekiel 32:23 especially in phrase יוֺרְדֵי בוֺר those going down to (the) pit Psalm 28:1; Psalm 143:7; Isaiah 38:18; Ezekiel 26:20; Ezekiel 32:25, Ezekiel 32:29, Ezekiel 32:30; also, (|| שׁאול), Psalm 88:5; Proverbs 1:12; further Ezekiel 26:20; Ezekiel 32:18, Ezekiel 32:24 (all || אֶרֶץ תַּחְתִּיּוֺת), Ezekiel 31:14, Ezekiel 31:16 (both || אֶרֶץ תַּחְתִּית; Ezekiel 31:14 || also מָוֶת, Ezekiel 31:16 שְׁאוֺל).
בַּיִר Qr Jeremiah 6:7 see בּוֺר above.
Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon, Unabridged, Electronic Database.
Copyright © 2002, 2003, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc.
All rights reserved. Used by permission. BibleSoft.com
 

River Sea

Well-Known Member
I dont see exclusion as the tool, except for priesthood and claimed authority, just like the lines of pharaoh

@Bthoth
Reasons why I don't use any religions: I have a relationship with Light, whom I drink from. A friend. I'm still wondering why or how I got into learning religions; it's almost like putting a puzzle together. Maybe I should leave this area; I'm not sure. I'm not sure if I'm making sense here.

I don't go to church, mosques, temples, or synagogues, so why am I learning religions? Oh wait, now I remember, I was at a game site and met Jews, and I asked, What is a Jew?

Now I remember it was all because of a question, yet as I asked, I wasn't planning on converting to any religions. However I was intrigued about as I learned, that led to other questions.,

I'm more for freedom of thought and a relationship connection with the inner "I" we all carry. I don't think through good, bad, right, or wrong; I think more through allowing or blocking. And learning how to allow and why I am blocking. Example: When I'm blocking light, in the midst of my thoughts, I allow light. Teach me why I'm blocking and how to allow myself to drink from light in this situation. Drinking from the light within me is spiritual food.
No, there is no indication of worship of any God or Goddess being abolished in Indus Valley. There are no mummies as well. The dead were buried. Cremation is not evidenced.
Two reasons. Immersion of bones in sacred rivers and water bodies is a sort of post-mortem purification of sins that the person may have committed in life. Secondly, that is the tradition in which the person's ancestors have gone, so it is a sort of unification with the ancestors. That also does not need land like in case of a grave, that will be considered a defilement of earth in Hinduism.

@Aupmanyav

I agree with you as I too would rather a safer way for earth to deal with physical dead bodies, so I agree with you about what is best for earth.

My family would plant a tree with the physical dead body ashes. So people see trees and are reminded of these people who have physically passed away. I would rather my ashes be thrown in a river, so there are no reminders of me.

I thought Hindus only thought through reincarnation for learning. Yet here, as you explain, is the purification of sin. You wrote, "Immersion of bones in sacred rivers and water bodies is a sort of post-mortem purification of sins that the person may have committed in life."

I notice religions have their laws and rituals, as if to aim for the purification of sin and now I learned Hinduism think this way too. I'm not into laws and rituals in order for an image of purification. I'm more into learning about allowing and blocking light, why do we block light and how to allow to drink from light from within us, with in our situations, so can be spiritually fed.
 
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Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I notice religions have their laws and rituals, as if to aim for the purification of sin and now I learned Hinduism think this way too. I'm not into laws and rituals in order for an image of purification. I'm more into learning about allowing and blocking light, why do we block light and how to allow to drink from light from within us, with in our situations, so can be spiritually fed.
Hindus have never tried to block light. Even in the RigVeda, existence of Gods prior to creation was not accepted, and they said in the beginning there was nothing other than void. I bring to your notice the 3,000 year old Creation Hymn of Hinduism (Nasadiya Sukta), which says:

"All that existed then was void and formless: by the great power of Warmth was born that Unit. ..
The Gods are later than this world's production. Who knows then whence it first came into being?"
Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN CXXIX. Creation., Verse 3 & 6

Hindu philosophers were very clinical about it. And I am an atheist Hindu.
 
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River Sea

Well-Known Member
Hindus have never tried to block light.

@Aupmanyav I agree with Hindus that I haven't sought to block light; however, I do block light at times, therefore I learnt that when I do block light, in the midst of, I allow light to teach myself how to allow light more. So I can get spiritually fed from light in the midst of my situations. So I agree with Hindus, that I haven't sought to block light. I hope this clarifies. Maybe there's a better way of wording this?

Maybe the word midst is confusing. Maybe what I'm seeking to explain is that I don't fight my thoughts; instead, I let my thoughts be, while in the midst, I allow light thoughts to cycle through my thoughts, and this then allows light to teach me how to feed from light. So blocking becomes less and allowing light becomes more, as I feed more from light. So yes, I agree with Hindus; I also don't seek to block light.

I couldn't figure how to quote what @Aupmanyav wrote. Due to editing. so instead I'll copy past what @Aupmanyav wrote.
@Aupmanyav wrote:
Even in the RigVeda, existence of Gods prior to creation was not accepted, and they said in the beginning there was nothing other than void. I bring to your notice the 3,000 year old Creation Hymn of Hinduism (Nasadiya Sukta), which says:

"All that existed then was void and formless: by the great power of Warmth was born that Unit. ..
The Gods are later than this world's production. Who knows then whence it first came into being?"
Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN CXXIX. Creation., Verse 3 & 6

I found a YouTube video chanting what you shared - Creation Hymn of Hinduism (Nasadiya Sukta)

Rigveda Chanting - Nasadiya Sukta in Devanagari with English transcription and translation
 
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Bharat Jhunjhunwala

TruthPrevails
These ones aren't even in the region mentioned in Genesis, either, I just put them up as an example.

You can find the text with the Hebrew-English here:
Here is a resource for the word:
STRONGS H953:Abbreviations
† בּוֺר noun masculineGenesis 37:20 pit, cistern, well (= בְּאֹר, MI בר, Arabic
bdb009201
hole or hollow for cooking, Assyrian bûrtum DlPr 182, bûru LotzTP 169) — בּ׳ absolute Genesis 37:22 +; בֹּר Exodus 21:33 (2 Samuel 23:20 Qr, see באר above); construct בּוֺר 2 Kings 10:14 + (2 Samuel 23:15, 16 Qr, see באר above); בֹּ֫רָה (ָ ה locative) Genesis 37:24; suffix בּוֺרוֺ Isaiah 36:16 = בֹּרוֺ 2 Kings 18:31; בּוֺרֶ֑ךָ Proverbs 5:15; plural בֹּרוֺת Genesis 37:20 + 3 times; בֹּרֹת Deuteronomy 6:11: —​
1. cistern, containing water, made by digging (חצב) Deuteronomy 6:11; 2 Chronicles 26:10; Nehemiah 9:25; also (without reference to origin) Proverbs 5:15 (|| בְּאֵר) Leviticus 11:36 (|| מַעִיָן), 1 Samuel 19:22; Isaiah 36:16 = 2 Kings 18:31.​
2. later apparently well (= בְּאֵר) 1 Chronicles 11:17, 182 Samuel 23:15, 2 Samuel 23:16 (yet now no well at Bethlehem RobBR i. 470, 473 compare also Surveyiii. 28 GuérinJudée i. 130), compare Ecclesiastes 12:6 & Jeremiah 6:7 Kt כְּהָקִיר בו֯ר מֵימֶיהָ as a well casteth out its water (Qr בַּיִר); but הקיר perhaps keep cool, fresh Hi Gf.​
3. pit Exodus 21:33 (verb פתח), Exodus 21:33 (כרה), compare Exodus 21:34; compare figurative Psalm 7:16 of wickedness (|| שַׁחַת; verb כרה, חפר); 1 Samuel 13:6 as hiding-place; 2 Samuel 23:20 (Qr) = 1 Chronicles 11:22; 2 Kings 10:14 בּוֺר בֵּית עֵ֫קֶד; of pit into which Joseph was cast Genesis 37:20, Genesis 37:22, Genesis 37:24 (וְהַבּוֺר רֵק אֵין בּוֺ מ֑יִם) Genesis 37:28; Genesis 37:29; Genesis 37:29 (JE), compare further Jeremiah 41:7, Jeremiah 41:9; figurative of Sarah as mother of Israel מַקֶּבֶת בּ׳ Isaiah 51:1; figurative of calamity Psalm 40:3 בּוֺר שָׁאוֺן; compare Psalm 88:7 תַּחְתִּיּוֺת בּ׳.​
4. dungeon (pit with no water in it Jeremiah 38:6; Zechariah 9:11 compare Genesis 37:24 above) Genesis 40:13; Genesis 41:14 (E) Isaiah 24:22; Jeremiah 38:6 (twice in verse) (אֵין מַיִם בּ׳) Jeremiah 38:7; Jeremiah 38:9; Jeremiah 38:10; Jeremiah 38:11; Jeremiah 38:13; also בֵּית הַבּוֺר prison Exodus 12:29; Jeremiah 37:16; figurative of exile Zechariah 9:11 (מִבּוֺר אֵין מַיִם בּוֺ); compare also Lamentations 3:53, Lamentations 3:55.​
5. (in poetry & late; never with article) pit of the grave Proverbs 28:17; so אַבְנֵי ב׳ stones of the pit Isaiah 14:19 (of sepulchre, walled with stones) & of She’ôl Psalm 30:4 (|| שׁאול); יַרְכְּתֵי ב׳ loins of (the) pit, i.e. remotest pit Isaiah 14:15 (|| שׁאול) Ezekiel 32:23 especially in phrase יוֺרְדֵי בוֺר those going down to (the) pit Psalm 28:1; Psalm 143:7; Isaiah 38:18; Ezekiel 26:20; Ezekiel 32:25, Ezekiel 32:29, Ezekiel 32:30; also, (|| שׁאול), Psalm 88:5; Proverbs 1:12; further Ezekiel 26:20; Ezekiel 32:18, Ezekiel 32:24 (all || אֶרֶץ תַּחְתִּיּוֺת), Ezekiel 31:14, Ezekiel 31:16 (both || אֶרֶץ תַּחְתִּית; Ezekiel 31:14 || also מָוֶת, Ezekiel 31:16 שְׁאוֺל).​
בַּיִר Qr Jeremiah 6:7 see בּוֺר above.​
Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon, Unabridged, Electronic Database.​
Copyright © 2002, 2003, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc.​
All rights reserved. Used by permission. BibleSoft.com
Appreciate your post. But does not answer my post 646. We need to show a structure that is in rural setting, is opened and closed with stone, used for water for animals. Definitions do not help. We need to show such structure in Israel.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
Appreciate your post. But does not answer my post 646. We need to show a structure that is in rural setting, is opened and closed with stone, used for water for animals. Definitions do not help. We need to show such structure in Israel.
See post # 647
 

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
@Aupmanyav I agree with Hindus that I haven't sought to block light; however, I do block light at times, therefore I learnt that when I do block light, in the midst of, I allow light to teach myself how to allow light more. So I can get spiritually fed from light in the midst of my situations. So I agree with Hindus, that I haven't sought to block light. I hope this clarifies. Maybe there's a better way of wording this?
Agreed, the descriptions of light are often misunderstood.
Light is universal there is no divide of life from light.

Impossible to separate the 2.

Light is how life exist within nature. Keep that fact as a principle.

The perpendicular planes of the electric and magnetic fields are the perfect cross of nature across the board.

Some is visible, the majority is not.

But the primal application is universal. Comprehending it, is what mitigates understanding that enables living systems to realize existence.

Maybe the word midst is confusing. Maybe what I'm seeking to explain is that I don't fight my thoughts; instead, I let my thoughts be, while in the midst, I allow light thoughts to cycle through my thoughts, and this then allows light to teach me how to feed from light. So blocking becomes less and allowing light becomes more, as I feed more from light. So yes, I agree with Hindus; I also don't seek to block light.
Please allow light to enable.
The truth is based on such realization, even as now.
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
Hindus have never tried to block light. Even in the RigVeda, existence of Gods prior to creation was not accepted, and they said in the beginning there was nothing other than void. I bring to your notice the 3,000 year old Creation Hymn of Hinduism (Nasadiya Sukta), which says:

"All that existed then was void and formless: by the great power of Warmth was born that Unit. ..
The Gods are later than this world's production. Who knows then whence it first came into being?"
Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN CXXIX. Creation., Verse 3 & 6

Hindu philosophers were very clinical about it. And I am an atheist Hindu.

"never tried to block light" --- think I might push back on that one .. perhaps you can explain how the caste system was adopted by Hindus :)
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
.. perhaps you can explain how the caste system was adopted by Hindus :)
Why are people Scots, Italian, French, Spanish? This shows their derivation, region, religion too, tradition, professions, etc. Caste also is similar. There are Maithil Brahmins, shows their origin from a particular part of India, shows that they may not be averse to non-veg. food which brahmins will not generally partake, their language will be Bhojpuri. Similarly, Jats. They are from Punjab, Haryana, Rajasthan and Western Uttar Pradesh. They are generally agriculturists. What I mean is that caste may not be a bad thing unless discrimination is practiced. People care about how they are identified. We have made discrimination illegal (five years in jail). Caste can continue. Actually, now it is a way to identify people to whom 'Affirmative action' is provided.

India had many migrants, invaders, has many tribes. Each wanted to keep their identity and traditions intact. India and Hinduism allowed them to do so. We did not make then melt into each other. We are like a stained glass window. The colors do not loose their identity but together make it varied and beautiful. Take for example, how many kinds of Jews we have in India. Each group came to India in a different period and from a different country: Cochin Jews, Madras Jews, Nagercoil Jews, Goan Jews, Baghdadi Jews, Bnei Manashe, Bene Israel, Bene Ephraim and Polish Jews.
 
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Bthoth

Well-Known Member
And like Buddha said "Do not ditto what books and people say unless you have checked it yourself."
Exactly. Physics and electromagnetic fields are my specialty. I have written papers well beyond what you will find in scientific books.

I am the guy that conveys that light (em) is how molecules combine even if the basics of the scope was expressed by bohr almost 100 yrs ago.

Photo Neuron Conduction (PNC theory) was my first offering of 1982.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Exactly. Physics and electromagnetic fields are my specialty. I have written papers well beyond what you will find in scientific books.
I am the guy that conveys that light (em) is how molecules combine even if the basics of the scope was expressed by bohr almost 100 yrs ago.
Photo Neuron Conduction (PNC theory) was my first offering of 1982.
That is nice and God is irrelevant there.
 
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