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Yemeni child bride dies after internal bleeding on marriage night

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
Religion - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

I discard the last definition, because it is literally anything you do. So if you you use that definition of religion, then I can't argue with it, but if you use any combination of the first two, then I don't see how you can qualify anything that does not directly come from God as religious. Allah spoke the word of God to the Prophet through the Quran, and the Quran specifically says to judge by the Quran, and only the Quran. Anyone else is a disbeliever.

Surat Al-Ma'idah - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????
Verse 44 - 49



You have no idea.



But they are not "Words of God", Muslims fully recognize that Hadith is not the word of God. Even the Muslim who admitted to marrying a child in this thread, said that the Quran does not support the idea of a Muslim marrying a child.



I agree with you on taking religious scripture far too seriously, whether it defines good morality or not. I don't agree basing the totality of ones life on any book, much less a 2000 year old one is a good idea.



Judaism is interesting because it is both ethnicity and religion. Therefore the culture is inherent in the religion, but I'm not familiar enough with the concept of Oral Law to make a educated statement on it one way or another. But if Jewish Oral Law is recognized to be the words of men, about laws concerning men, then no I don't consider it religious, and I consider it cultural. If the Oral law is considered "the word of God" passed down orally rather than written, then it's religious.
Many religions can not be reduced to their scriptures.
Sola Scriptura is not that old. And even so, different denominations will have different set interpretations of it.[/quote]

Can you name a few? And I understand that their will be different interpretations of the scripture, but that is not the point I'm arguing. I'm arguing that their is absolutely ZERO scriptural evidence no matter how it is interpreted, to support child marriage in the Quran. Even the Muslim who admitted to marrying a child, and defended the practice admitted this.



What is Islam in your opinion?



The Bible actually clearly states that Moses says to keep the women children for yourselves. It also says to kill all the men and boys, and all the women and/or girls that are not virgins. It does not actually say they had sex with them, but it could easily be interpreted that way.
What the Bible says about pedophilia

Is that Christian in your opinion? And even so, the Quran does not even have anything that could be interpreted as promoting child marriage.



Exactly, so would you hold the religion responsible, or the individual person?



Kuwait and Saudi Arabia might qualify as 3rd world countries, but the UAE is the richest country in the world. I don't think it qualifies.



Indeed, this is why American's don't care. If they can't sense it in some way first hand, then it's not real.



The sad thing is, America and/or Europe has contributed to this in almost every area through colonialism or direct involvment in politics, such as in the case of the reinstallment of the Shah in Iran.

In Afganistan, one of the reasons why terrorism is so prevalent is because the terrorists groups give food to the hungry. Who are you more likely to side with: Someone who's feeding you when your hungry, or someone who is offering you an abstract concept?

Ideals don't feed the hungry.




A truer statment has never been spoken.



On some levels I agree with you, and on some levels I disagree. America is by far, the greatest country in the world, but the fact that we have done very little to nothing to help these poverty stricken areas makes us no better than anyone else in my opinion. Just different.



And this is why we are the greatest, but the problem is with all of the things you said in your earlier posts. This only happens in America because we have corrupted and/or oppressed every other place in the world in order to be able to have this type of freedom.



Naw, the people in charge just realized that they can make more money, if they break us off a few crumbs of the pie. The American population looks the other way because we enjoy eating our crumbs.



You refuse to accept the teachings of the Quran yourself.



No, He said clearly that the Quran does not condone or support his actions. How can you still say this is religious?



The horses mouth has repeatedly said that his actions are not justified by the Quran. He simply uses the facade of it being supported by Islam, to make himself feel better, even though it is clearly not.[/QUOTE]

At it's core Islam is submission to God, there maybe more to it that I am not aware of.

If it's practiced today I would hold Christanity responsible or in that particular case Judaism (Given it's from the OT you are quoting these bible sources). There are many things I do hold Christianity responsible for, but I look at religion as dynamic and the atempt to get closer to God, just because it was thought to be good back then does not mean it should be applied today. It should also be reviewed continously, debated continously. We aren't static creatures we change, we develop, for us to assume that how things were done 1000 years ago will always apply today to me is foolish.
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
So no one wants to comment on American parents who do not supervise their children well enough and these children have sex at an early age as well?
 

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
So no one wants to comment on American parents who do not supervise their children well enough and these children have sex at an early age as well?

I think that one gets overlooked because it's kids with kids...the idea being that since they are around the same age there isn't "pressure" from one on the other, though that is not really true. Though Parents do seem to have trouble talking to their kids about the birds and the bees, so that is part of it.

The U.S. definitely has to work on that, but it's still a step forward from having our kids marry older individuals.
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
I think that one gets overlooked because it's kids with kids...the idea being that since they are around the same age there isn't "pressure" from one on the other, though that is not really true. Though Parents do seem to have trouble talking to their kids about the birds and the bees, so that is part of it.

The U.S. definitely has to work on that, but it's still a step forward from having our kids marry older individuals.

So which would be more acceptable to you, a half dozen 14 year old boys having their way with a child or one man that stayed with her for life loving and honoring her.

I find both unacceptable, but many of the non-Muslims here are being hypocritical.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
So no one wants to comment on American parents who do not supervise their children well enough and these children have sex at an early age as well?

Because, while repugnant, it's not relevant to the thread topic, nor is it comparable considering there is a big difference between kids having sex with each other and kids being raped by adults.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
So which would be more acceptable to you, a half dozen 14 year old boys having their way with a child or one man that stayed with her for life loving and honoring her.

I find both unacceptable, but many of the non-Muslims here are being hypocritical.

It's not "hypocritical" because no one here is condemning one while condoning the other.

I'm disgusted by how people bend over backwards to defend the rape of children. :facepalm:

Some religious/cultural attitudes are simply irredeemable filth, so let's not pretend that they're entitled to undue respect.
 
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FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
So which would be more acceptable to you, a half dozen 14 year old boys having their way with a child or one man that stayed with her for life loving and honoring her.

I find both unacceptable, but many of the non-Muslims here are being hypocritical.

I would rather neither exist to be honest. Both are issues that should be addressed, but the way they are approached wouldn't be the same.

If he truly sees the child as someone he wants to spend life loving and honoring, then what harm is there to wait 10 more years? Arrange marriages are still a thing...of course there is the issue of wife husbandry.
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
One charity I support is the Eliminate Project, this is about maternal neo-natal tetnus.

There are young girls with no husband at all having their child laying in the dirt.

These young girls absent fathers are adults.

So is this thread about protecting children or demonising older husbands?

We are not protecting our own children, that is my point.
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
In our own country, an 89 year old man could marry a 18 year old girl perhaps years younger in some states. I find this disgusting as well.

Just so I am clear here, I believe a woman should be defined by her mental as well as physical maturity and do not support marriage before the age of 21.

The real issue here is consenting adults. If you are an adult you should be responsible for yourself and stand on your own and be able to engage in contracts, purchase anything that is legal and not be restricted from adult things.

We have girls in this country that cannot have a drink in a bar or purchase a handgun but they can have sex with older men if they so choose.

The bottom line here is if having sex is an adult activity or not.
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
I believe I could present a good arguement that having sex is NOT an adult activity.

We would jail a 14 year old for purchasing a gun and carrying it around, but do nothing to them for having sex.

Going down this rabbit hole boils down to what age a child should be able to give consent and engage in sex.

Are we saying that a child can give consent to another child but not an adult?
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
Lastly, many states say the age of consent for having sex is 16 years old.

Are we saying it is better for a 40 year old man to engage in sex with a 16 year old than having a beer with them?

One is legal and the other is not? Why?
 

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
Lastly, many states say the age of consent for having sex is 16 years old.

Are we saying it is better for a 40 year old man to engage in sex with a 16 year old than having a beer with them?

One is legal and the other is not? Why?

I think for age 16 the age of consent usually still requires parental approval, though I'm not too sure.
 

farouk

Active Member
Peace
Levite
Quote
"You are referring, I take it, to certain midrashim that portray Rivkah as being a child when she married Yitzchak: some say she was twelve, some that she was ten, some that she was seven, one even as young as three.
Those are midrashim-- exegetical parables. They are seldom, if ever, intended to be taken literally, and they are in no way doctrinal or dogmatic: one can believe them to whatever degree one chooses.
There are also plenty of midrashim that portray Rivkah as an adult at her marriage.
What the truth was, we will never know, since the Written Torah does not tell us their ages at the time of their marriage.

I choose to believe that the midrashim that portray Rivkah as a child are in error about that, since I like to imagine that our first three fathers were moral people beyond the usual bounds of their time, who would not marry little children."

Very interesting.
Just for my record can you tell me where did you find twelve,ten and seven from?
So the midrashim are in error..............mmmmmmmm
Now that puts the entire midrashim in doubt?
I think i need to dig deeper into the midrashim closet because they may be much more skeletons inside.
I was really under the impression that the oral teachings hold greater weight than the Torah.My opinion if your oral teachings are in error then the entire religion is now in doubt.:sorry1:
Peace and enjoy your day.
Farouk




 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
So if a group of men and boys camp and hunt and one of the boys took their first deer and harvested it himself, later sitting around the camp fire asked if he could taste his first beer an adult should say, "No, that would be illegal, but the law says we can have sex and that would be OK". Let's call your parents and make sure it is OK. :facepalm:
 

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
So if a group of men and boys camp and hunt and one of the boys took their first deer and harvested it himself, later sitting around the camp fire asked if he could taste his first beer an adult should say, "No, that would be illegal, but the law says we can have sex and that would be OK". Let's call your parents and make sure it is OK. :facepalm:

Yup.

Shrug it's the law man, it's not perfect...though we should strive to make it so.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Because, while repugnant, it's not relevant to the thread topic, nor is it comparable considering there is a big difference between kids having sex with each other and kids being raped by adults.

Do you mean johnson size is different in adult than young kids.
 

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
My only point is we should get our own house in order before acting all superior to other cultures.

I definitely agree that we should and we try, but while I say we should strive for perfection, I don't think we ever will, that being said though, there are places around that we can try to at least try to also to push away others from these things that we look at as immoral (man that sounds bad lol)....
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
It's not "hypocritical" because no one here is condemning one while condoning the other.

I'm disgusted by how people bend over backwards to defend the rape of children. :facepalm:

Some religious/cultural attitudes are simply irredeemable filth, so let's not pretend that they're entitled to undue respect.

Rev Rick doesn't support child marriage but pointing out that kids are also raped by other kids due to parent ignorance which also is disgusting specially if the kids become younger and the boy keep on ******* her and then Good bye baby
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Lastly, many states say the age of consent for having sex is 16 years old.

Are we saying it is better for a 40 year old man to engage in sex with a 16 year old than having a beer with them?

One is legal and the other is not? Why?

Legality and morality are too separate things, and one doesn't dictate the other. Of course the system is full of arbitrary, irrational, contradictory, and inconsistent laws. Which is why we elect legislators who, in theory, are supposed to iron out such issues in accordance to the will of the people.
 
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