Yemeni child bride dies after internal bleeding on marriage night

[Father Heathen]

My only point is we should get our own house in order before acting all superior to other cultures.

Of course no culture is perfect, and it is something that society should strive to improve. However, some cultures are superior to others.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

So no one wants to comment on American parents who do not supervise their children well enough and these children have sex at an early age as well?

I believe parents need to educate their children on contraception and what informed consent looks like. I don't believe parents ought to pressure their kids into having sex, which is what selling off a young girl to an older man would be. Many parents in our culture won't talk with their kids about sex and ignore the possibility that their kids will explore with each other. We take the time to teach them how to change the tires of their car, but we collectively do nothing about teaching them informed consent, what contraceptives are available and what exactly they protect against, what STDs exist and how easily they can be contracted, and dispelling myths about how pregnancy occurs and doesn't occur.

One practice is neglect, and one is abuse. They each have their various negative impacts, but what is being discussed here is the negative impact of child marriage, which is what happend to the 11-year-old Yemeni girl.

Make no mistake, if an 11-year-old girl in the U.S. died due to pregnancy complications because she had sex with a 12-year-old boy, I'd be discussing how we as a culture are failing our children by keeping them in the dark about sex, contraception, and STDs.

Either way, I don't think the solution is for older men to protect the honor and purity of our little girls in a patriarchal construct. Girls are better off when they are fully educated, finish school, and are fully and individually empowered to make informed decisions for her reproductive rights and health.

In fact, The Girl Project addresses this specifically. We're talking about a global phenomenon, not targeting Muslim countries here, but around the world where girls are not empowered through education and with their reproductive health. When girls do not finish school, are ignored or pressured or forced into an early pregnancy under 15 years old, the impact on them and their surrounding communities is devastating. But when girls DO finish school and delay child-bearing until they have had jobs and contributed to their surrounding communities, the statistics show that everybody wins. It's a great concept, because these studies from The Girl Project have shown that educated girls who can work give back to their communities and ensure clean water, food security, education, and basic health care for everybody.

My issue is not about protecting the purity or honor. That's an archaic cultural patriarchal concept. My issue is about empowering girls and young women to be able to make choices for their reproductive health and their education. Ignoring them in our culture and selling them off as children into a marriage with a grown man both stand in the way of empowered women.

Hope that answers your question, Rick. I've been highly critical of our own repressed culture and the damage it's done already (of course everybody has an opinion about sex in our culture, but that's mine). In this thread specifically, we're talking about the conditions that occurred for why an 11-year-old girl died as a result of a cultural practice still around today. I find this practice extremely problematic due to the dangers it places on girls and young women.

 

[1robin]

Well not all Muslims practice this I don't think. It seems to be one of those situations in life (given the state that Yemen is in economically), where some of the rich use it as a way to fulfill their own lustful behaviors and subjugate the poor.

When we are speaking of an event very similar to what the "prophet" of Islam himself did it is irrational to separate the event from the faith. Especially since it is only one of millions of actions this vile similar to those the "prophet" himself practiced and encouraged.

 

[FearGod]

When we are speaking of an event very similar to what the "prophet" of Islam himself did it is irrational to separate the event from the faith. Especially since it is only one of millions of actions this vile similar to those the "prophet" himself practiced and encouraged.

What is your evidence that the prophet did really practice it ?

Stories and myths aren't evidences even if told by some stupid scholars and/or web sites.

If you have a tangible evidence other than the funny stories that (so and so) saw Aisha playing with a doll at the time of mariage then present it here.

i think you believe then that Santa was living in the north pole and spreading gifts to children all over the world and you believe that Jesus was flying over the sea and Mohammed rode a flying horse from Mecca to Jerusalem.

 

[Aquitaine]

What is your evidence that the prophet did really practice it ?

Stories and myths aren't evidences even if told by some stupid scholars and/or web sites.

If you have a tangible evidence other than the funny stories that (so and so) saw Aisha playing with a doll at the time of mariage then present it here.

i think you believe then that Santa was living in the north pole and spreading gifts to children all over the world and you believe that Jesus was flying over the sea and Mohammed rode a flying horse from Mecca to Jerusalem.

Out of curiosity (and please answer as honestly as you can) if Mohammad did definitely marry Aisha at aged 6 and then "consummated" the marriage at 9 - would you support it as a moral thing to do, and something for other Muslims to accept?

 

[1robin]

What is your evidence that the prophet did really practice it ?

I must be missing something. Muhammad's involvement with a minor (sexual and otherwise) is a fact conceded by virtually everyone. Of course Muslims think of ways to excuse sex with a 9 year old but the excuse or lack there for of has nothing to do with what I claimed. Both Muhammad and the Muslim in that story had sex with a minor. I am unsure what you disagree with here.

Stories and myths aren't evidences even if told by some stupid scholars and/or web sites.

That does not apply here (once again I am only using Islamic sources) and not every story inconvenient for Islam is from stupid scholars and biased people. If you realized how ridiculous calling anything that does not fit your narrative looks to everyone that is not committed to it you might adopt new tactics provided there are any others. Nothing I said here is not conceded by and large by Muslims.

If you have a tangible evidence other than the funny stories that (so and so) saw Aisha playing with a doll at the time of marriage then present it here.

I never mentioned a doll and it makes me too sad to even think about so I do not remember ever having mentioned it. He is lucky I was not there to see that if it actually happened.

i think you believe then that Santa was living in the north pole and spreading gifts to children all over the world and you believe that Jesus was flying over the sea and Mohammed rode a flying horse from Mecca to Jerusalem.

I do not think a single thing you claimed here is true or accurate (Jesus walked on the water he did not fly). Do you actually deny Muhammad had sex with a minor?

 

[FearGod]

Out of curiosity (and please answer as honestly as you can) if Mohammad did definitely marry Aisha at aged 6 and then "consummated" the marriage at 9 - would you support it as a moral thing to do, and something for other Muslims to accept?

i don't believe that he did it and i don't support child marriage and i won't support child marriage for whatever reasons.

Those are fabricated stories exactly similar to the stories that makes Jesus as God in a human flesh and many other irrational stories.

 

[Assad91]

i don't believe that he did it and i don't support child marriage and i won't support child marriage for whatever reasons.

Those are fabricated stories exactly similar to the stories that makes Jesus as God in a human flesh and many other irrational stories.

Brother, some people are worse then others.

Don't get sucked in with those whose minds are made up for the worse.

 

[Aquitaine]

i don't believe that he did it and i don't support child marriage and i won't support child marriage for whatever reasons.

Those are fabricated stories exactly similar to the stories that makes Jesus as God in a human flesh and many other irrational stories.

So - hypothetically-speaking - if it turned out to be true (that Mohammad married Aisha between the ages of 6 and 9), would you denounce his actions regarding this circumstance?

Not necessarily trying to insinuate anything here (since let's face it, we will never know the truth of their marriage), it's just a hypothetical question.

* = Edited text.

 

[FearGod]

I must be missing something. Muhammad's involvement (sexual and otherwise) is a fact conceded by virtually everyone. Of course Muslims think of ways to excuse sex with a 9 year old but the excuse or lack there for of has nothing to do with what I claimed. Both Muhammad and the Muslim in that story had sex with a minor. I am unsure what you disagree with here.

That does not apply here (once again I am only using Islamic sources) and not every story inconvenient for Islam is from stupid scholars and biased people. If you realized how ridiculous calling anything that does not fit your narrative looks to everyone that is not committed to it you might adopt new tactics provided there are any others. Nothing I said here is not conceded by and large by Muslims.

I never mentioned a doll and it makes me too sad to even think about so I do not remember ever having mentioned it. He is luck I was not there to see that if it actually happened.

I do not think a single thing you claimed here is true or accurate (Jesus walked on the water he did not fly). Do you actually deny Muhammad had sex with a minor?

Bla..bla..bla.....bla..............................

Where is the evidence ?
My question is very easy,the story is 1400 years ago,what is your evidence that it was true story.

if you believe the stories then there are hundreds of stories saying Mohammed was the messenger of God,then believe it too,or you just pick up what you need to bash Islam.

BTW,sorry for the mistake,Jesus wasn't able to fly but just walked on the water,that makes a big difference.

 

[1robin]

i don't believe that he did it and i don't support child marriage and i won't support child marriage for whatever reasons.

Those are fabricated stories exactly similar to the stories that makes Jesus as God in a human flesh and many other irrational stories.

I am very surprised by this. I have never talked to a Muslim did not grant that Muhammad married a very young girl without question. It is usually followed by excuses like tribal bonds, what everyone did at that time, what age was appropriate in that culture, or her parents being willing. What is it you think is the truth concerning Aisha and Muhammad?

 

[outhouse]

What a stupid idea to make one's opinion as a proof for a whole religion.

Please think for a while before writing your nonsense.


i don't agree with child marriage,take it as a proof

We are not talking about marriage.

We are talking about your comment in where you stated it was alright for children to have sex when they hit puberty which can be at a very early age, and these girls are still children.

Yes i agree with you that the girl may be ready for sex once she enters the stage of puberty,

Can you defend this?

 

[outhouse]

So no one wants to comment on American parents who do not supervise their children well enough and these children have sex at an early age as well?

Typical age is 16, but the majority of the time it is with other children.


Some trashy places will let this go way down, and I agree it is poor parenting, if you can even call it that.

I would call these types as poor drug or alcoholic families or partial families.

City life.


To me two wrongs don't make it right, but this is not pedophilia of a adult taking advantage of innocent children because their culture and religion condone it.

We have a problem, but our culture and religion do not condone it.

 

[outhouse]

I'm disgusted by how people bend over backwards to defend the rape of children.

Some religious/cultural attitudes are simply irredeemable filth, so let's not pretend that they're entitled to undue respect.

The truth comes out!

Frubals

 

[outhouse]

Going down this rabbit hole boils down to what age a child should be able to give consent and engage in sex.

I think most states have laws that make it clear 18 is the age.

The problem your bringing up is really how do we prosecute children that are found guilty.

 

[outhouse]

My only point is we should get our own house in order before acting all superior to other cultures.

Um, we do compared to these barbaric heinous acts of moral perversion against children.

While it is not all the religions fault, there is a fault here.

While we are not perfect, we are no where near this barbaric as a whole.

The reason this sexual murder happened in the first place is because of the barbaric culture that has let this go on way to long due too cultural and religious dogma.


We are talking about a places where child marriages are normal accepted behavior, and it needs to stop.

For gods sake little children are killing themselves so they wont be victims.

 

[1robin]

My only point is we should get our own house in order before acting all superior to other cultures.

Are you suggesting I must make everyone in the US perfectly moral before I can call child rape immoral?

 

[FearGod]

Um, we do compared to these barbaric heinous acts of moral perversion against children.

While it is not all the religions fault, there is a fault here.

While we are not perfect, we are no where near this barbaric as a whole.

The reason this sexual murder happened in the first place is because of the barbaric culture that has let this go on way to long due too cultural and religious dogma.


We are talking about a places where child marriages are normal accepted behavior, and it needs to stop.

For gods sake little children are killing themselves so they wont be victims.

For gods sake little children are killing themselves so they wont be victims.

 

[outhouse]

For gods sake little children are killing themselves so they wont be victims.

Truth hurts

 

[FearGod]

Are you suggesting I must make everyone in the US perfectly moral before I can call child rape immoral?

Does he mean that we should start in the US then to Yemen.