Yemeni child bride dies after internal bleeding on marriage night

[Reverend Rick]

Are you suggesting I must make everyone in the US perfectly moral before I can call child rape immoral?

No, I did not suggest that.

Are you saying a man who has been a faithful husband for 47 years is a bad person?

I think calling him a rapist by todays standard for what happened that long ago is unjust.

I also think applying our current standards to a person who lived 1400 years ago is a low shot. We should show more respect than that.

I further believe that many folks ignore the efforts of moderate Muslims to raise the age of marriage.

Why would we lump 2 billion people into one nice package so we can condem them?

Jesus said for us to love our neighbor. I don't remember an exception for Muslims.

Was God's promise to Haggar any less real than God's promise to Abraham?

 

[Father Heathen]

No, I did not suggest that.

Are you saying a man who has been a faithful husband for 47 years is a bad person?

When they rape a child? They're not just a bad person, they're a horrible person.

I think calling him a rapist by todays standard for what happened that long ago is unjust.

Rape is rape and a child is a child regardless of era, culture, or standards. If I were to punch you in the face, would it hurt any less at any other place on earth or point in history?

I also think applying our current standards to a person who lived 1400 years ago is a low shot. We should show more respect than that.

No. They're neither worthy of nor entitled to respect. Period.

 

[Reverend Rick]

When they rape a child? They're not just a bad person, they're a horrible person.

Rape is rape and a child is a child regardless of era, culture, or standards. If I were to punch you in the face, would it hurt any less at any other place on earth or point in history?



No. They're neither worthy of nor entitled to respect. Period.

OK, smart guy, just what do you suggest we do about this? Moderate Muslims tried to raise the marriage age and failed.

Should we go over there and put boots on the ground?

Perhaps we should just bomb the hell out of these families. That would make things better.


Perhaps we might use a global approach, but the consensus around the world might backfire and then we might be the ones who have to make changes in our own country.

It is my considered opinion you have no answers to the problem and enjoy voicing your prejudice.

 

[outhouse]

OK, smart guy, just what do you suggest we do about this? Moderate Muslims tried to raise the marriage age and failed.

Should we go over there and put boots on the ground?

Perhaps we should just bomb the hell out of these families. That would make things better.


Perhaps we might use a global approach, but the consensus around the world might backfire and then we might be the ones who have to make changes in our own country.



It is my considered opinion you have no answers to the problem and enjoy voicing your prejudice.

I dont have the answers, but condoning it or saying there is nothing we can do is dead wrong.


Last thing we should do is ignore it and hope the vile distgusting act stops.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I dont have the answers, but condoning it or saying there is nothing we can do is dead wrong.

I don't have the answer either. I guess I have to challenge this notion that we can do anything about this.

Last thing we should do is ignore it and hope the vile distgusting act stops.

I am not ignoring this, what I do think however that it is ignorant to believe there is an answer to this problem when none of us can even come up with a hypothetical solution much less a working one.

I think it is just terrible that everyone on the planet does not have clean drinking water while we flush our toilets with it.

I am just being a realist, our own country has treated women as second class citizens. Not too long ago, they could not even vote.

Just because we have became more progressive, does not mean spit around the globe.

I don't see the rest of the planet progressing to anything even near what we have here for centuries.

Anyone who does any amount of traveling abroad realises quickly that the rest of the world marches to the beat of a different drummer.

Basic freedoms we take for granted do not exist other places and folks act like that is a news flash or something.

 

[Father Heathen]

OK, smart guy, just what do you suggest we do about this? Moderate Muslims tried to raise the marriage age and failed.

I commend their efforts, of course.

Should we go over there and put boots on the ground?

What such societies need is improved education (without indoctrination), and freedom of speech and of the press. We need to inform, to expose, and to scrutinize. We need to help them, out of compassion, to catch up with the modern world, for their children's sake. I want rights, freedom, equality, and justice for all of humanity.

Perhaps we should just bomb the hell out of these families. That would make things better.

What a bizarre non sequitur.

It is my considered opinion you have no answers to the problem and enjoy voicing your prejudice.

I'm "prejudiced" because I oppose the rape, abuse, and exploitation of children?

Princess, please.

 

[farouk]

Peace to all.
Please note that i intend no harm or attack on any Hindu members in this forum.My intent is only to reveal the truth.

The ff is from the Hindu Scriptures.

bodhayana (4.1.11)
let him give his daughter, while she still goes about naked, to a man who has not broken the vow of chastity and who possesses good qualities, or even to one destitute of good qualities ; let him not keep the maiden in his house after she has reached the age of puberty.

vashistha (17.70)
out of fear of the appearance of the menses, let the father marry his daughter while she still runs about naked. for if she stays in the home after the age of puberty, sin falls on the father

Note there are other verses as well but my intent is just to proof the morality of getting your daughters married.

Peace
Farouk

 

[FearGod]

As we can see from UN survey that most of child marriage is in Africa and among the 20 leading countries Yemen isn't among them.
Why picking up Yemen and dismiss the others.

The answer is very simple,the purpose is bashing Islam and not child marriage

Religion and Child Marriage

• No one religious affiliation was associated with child marriage, according to a 2007 ICRW study. Rather, a variety of religions are associated with child marriage in countries throughout the world.

Reference: Child Marriage Facts and Figures | ICRW


Yemeni minister seeks law to end child marriage

Yemen's human rights minister has asked parliament to pass a law setting a minimum age for marriage.

Hooria Mashhour told the BBC she believed there was more chance of making progress on the issue of child marriage in Yemen than ever before.
It comes amid an international outcry over reports that an eight-year-old girl died of internal bleeding on the night she wed a 40-year-old man.
The details of the case are unclear, with officials denying it happened.
But an adviser to the prime minister says an investigation will be carried out and anyone responsible brought to justice.

Reference: BBC News - Yemeni minister seeks law to end child marriage

 

[Poeticus]

1. Niger = 93% Muslim (majority Muslim)
2. Chad = 53% Muslim (majority Muslim)
3. Central African Republic = 80% Christian (majority Christian)
4. Bangladesh = 89% Muslim (majority Muslim)
5. Guinea = 85% Muslim (majority Muslim)
6. Mozambique = 56.1% Christian (majority Christian)
7. Mali = 90% Muslim (majority Muslim)
8. Burkina Faso = 60.5% Muslim (majority Muslim)
9. South Sudan = 60.5% Christian (majority Christian)
10. Malawi = 68% Christian (majority Christian)
11. Madagascar = 41% Christian; equal amount Indigenous Beliefs (both)
12. Eritrea = 62.5% Christian (majority Christian)
13. India = 80% Hindu (majority Hindu)
14. Somalia = 50%+ Muslim (majority Muslim)
15. Sierra Leone = 71% Muslim (majority Muslim)
16. Zambia = 67%+ Protestant; 20%+ Catholic (majority Christian)
17. Dominican Republic = 69% Catholic (majority Christian)
18. Ethiopia = 68.2% Christian (majority Christian)
19. Nepal = 81% Hindu (majority Hindu)
20. Nicaragua = 58.5% Roman Catholic (majority Christian)

10/20 are Christian majority countries.

8/20 are Muslim majority countries.

2/20 are Hindu majority countries.

The top five are Muslim majority countries that are found in Africa not the Middle East.

Yemen is in the Middle East.

 

[FearGod]

Peace to all.
Please note that i intend no harm or attack on any Hindu members in this forum.My intent is only to reveal the truth.

The ff is from the Hindu Scriptures.

bodhayana (4.1.11)
let him give his daughter, while she still goes about naked, to a man who has not broken the vow of chastity and who possesses good qualities, or even to one destitute of good qualities ; let him not keep the maiden in his house after she has reached the age of puberty.

vashistha (17.70)
out of fear of the appearance of the menses, let the father marry his daughter while she still runs about naked. for if she stays in the home after the age of puberty, sin falls on the father

Note there are other verses as well but my intent is just to proof the morality of getting your daughters married.

Peace
Farouk

Salam Brother,

That is a good point for you to realize that the quran in which God had promised to keep it from any change that you can't find one similar verse.

Those verses in the hindu scripture were corrupted my brother,any sane can realize that.

Through history some people distorted relegion for their own evil wants.
Till today we can see some scholars making usury halal and if they could then they'll modify god words in the quran,but thanks god that his promise can never be broken.

i call this as people ignorance,look around you and see how they make god as 3,look around you and see how they bow to cows,look around you and see how idols are back and homosexual marriage is normal.

We can know what is good and what is bad if we think wise.

Wine is OK for many religions.
Adultery is OK for many religions.
Pork is OK for many religions....etc
And now homosexual marriage,back to the era of Loot.

Child marriage,think of it without religion you'll find it awful and disgusting.

Thanks god that you were good for your wife but not all men are as good as you are,some are looking for the child as a lion after his prey.

Peace & Love brother
FearGod

 

[Alceste]

OK, smart guy, just what do you suggest we do about this? Moderate Muslims tried to raise the marriage age and failed.

Should we go over there and put boots on the ground?

Perhaps we should just bomb the hell out of these families. That would make things better.


Perhaps we might use a global approach, but the consensus around the world might backfire and then we might be the ones who have to make changes in our own country.

It is my considered opinion you have no answers to the problem and enjoy voicing your prejudice.

We can unequivocally condemn in the strongest possible terms the sale and rape of little girls without having to stomp over to Yemen or Africa and rescue them personally. Education and communication is an important facet of any overall strategy to reduce the prevalence of child "brides". That's how women managed to better our own situation in the West - several decades of communication and education, to the aim of eliminating legal and economic barriers to our participation in public life. No bombs required. Just a lot of very sharp minds and silver tongues.

Persuasion is the name of this game. Persuading men in countries where child rape is still socially acceptable or even recommended to think twice about buying little girls as "wives", persuading legislators to pass laws against the practice, persuading law enforcement to intervene, etc. You're not going to get very far if you think raping little girls is kind of OK sometimes, depending on the surrounding circumstances. Raping little girls (and boys) is ALWAYS EVIL. In every circumstance. At all times. For everyone.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I commend their efforts, of course.

What such societies need is improved education (without indoctrination), and freedom of speech and of the press. We need to inform, to expose, and to scrutinize. We need to help them, out of compassion, to catch up with the modern world, for their children's sake. I want rights, freedom, equality, and justice for all of humanity.

As do I. It is good to see you give credit were credit is due.

What a bizarre non sequitur.

Bizzarre, not really. Remember Waco Texas? Children were being abused and our government burned children to a crisp.

I'm "prejudiced" because I oppose the rape, abuse, and exploitation of children?

Princess, please.

I believe you apply the term rape loosely. If I where to use the standard you are using, my father-in-law was a rapist when he married a 16 year old at the age of 25. They have been happily married for over 50 years.

I think the first thing we need to establish is at what age a person can give consent.

Children in our own country are being "raped" every day.

 

[Father Heathen]

As do I. It is good to see you give credit were credit is due. Bizzarre, not really. Remember Waco Texas? Children were being abused and our government burned children to a crisp.I believe you apply the term rape loosely. If I where to use the standard you are using, my father-in-law was a rapist when he married a 16 year old at the age of 25. They have been happily married for over 50 years.

I think the first thing we need to establish is at what age a person can give consent.

Children in our own country are being "raped" every day.

Do you really, honestly, genuinely believe that a prepubescent child can give informed consent and that there is truly an absence of pressure, force or coercion? Do you truly think that the child is given a real choice in the matter? "Sure, I would love to marry and have sex with this strange, creepy man even though I know nothing him, about sex, or about relationships, nor do I have the maturity to properly handle any of it, tee hee!" How can one not question the character and mentality of a full grown man who can bring themselves, eagerly and without hesitation, to penetrate a prepubescent child (brutalizing of their undeveloped, unprepared body)? Seriously now, think about it. No, really. Think about it.

 

[Reverend Rick]

We can unequivocally condemn in the strongest possible terms the sale and rape of little girls without having to stomp over to Yemen or Africa and rescue them personally. Education and communication is an important facet of any overall strategy to reduce the prevalence of child "brides". That's how women managed to better our own situation in the West - several decades of communication and education, to the aim of eliminating legal and economic barriers to our participation in public life. No bombs required. Just a lot of very sharp minds and silver tongues.

Persuasion is the name of this game. Persuading men in countries where child rape is still socially acceptable or even recommended to think twice about buying little girls as "wives", persuading legislators to pass laws against the practice, persuading law enforcement to intervene, etc. You're not going to get very far if you think raping little girls is kind of OK sometimes, depending on the surrounding circumstances. Raping little girls (and boys) is ALWAYS EVIL. In every circumstance. At all times. For everyone.

Thank you for this well thought out post. You are the first person who made a proposal for making things better.

Lets discuss persuading people. We can't start out by insulting them and their prophet (PBUH).

When we do this, that is the end of the dialog.

We have to let go of the past before we can enter the future.

We cannot apply todays standards to yesterday but we can try to move forward.

If the goal is improvement, we have to look forward not backward.

Just for a moment in time, consider how women and blacks were treated in our own country. Well at least your neighbor to the south anyway.

Lastly, it took a civil war to solve many of our problems and even after the war, over another century passed and it is debatable that we still have arrived.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Do you really, honestly, genuinely believe that a prepubescent child can give informed consent and that there is truly an absence of pressure, force or coercion? Do you truly think that the child is given a real choice in the matter? "Sure, I would love to marry and have sex with this strange, creepy man even though I know nothing him, about sex, or about relationships, nor do I have the maturity to properly handle any of it, tee hee!" How can one not question the character and mentality of a full grown man who can bring themselves, eagerly and without hesitation, to penetrate a prepubescent child (brutalizing of their undeveloped, unprepared body)? Seriously now, think about it. No, really. Think about it.

FH, nowhere have I ever implied that the age of consent should be low. I think we can all agree a womans body is ready before their mind is and the age of consent should be a high number.

 

[Father Heathen]

FH, nowhere have I ever implied that the age of consent should be low. I think we can all agree a womans body is ready before their mind is and the age of consent should be a high number.

Did you not say that we should overlook the obvious "out of respect" just because it's considered socially acceptable within certain cultures?

 

[Reverend Rick]

Did you not say that we should overlook the obvious "out of respect" just because it's considered socially acceptable within certain cultures?

I know this thread is long, but FearGod and I both agreed the man who killed his bride was a monster.

Most everyone in this thread supports raising the age of marriage.

If you read my posts, I made an arguement for the marriage age to be 21.

The first step in my opinion is agreeing at what age a girl can give consent.

I say girl because I do no believe anyone can make an arguement that sex is an adult activity under any countries laws including our own.

So how about it FH, what should be the age of consent where sex is not considered rape?

 

[Father Heathen]

I say girl because I do no believe anyone can make an arguement that sex is an adult activity under any countries laws including our own.

Again, there is a difference between kids having sex with kids, and kids having sex with much older adults.

So how about it FH, what should be the age of consent where sex is not considered rape?

It's a grey area consideringing that maturity and development is a gradual transition that varies from one person to the next, however that grey area falls well above the age of prepubescence.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Again, there is a difference between kids having sex with kids, and kids having sex with much older adults.

I disagree, I don't think young girls should be having sex with anyone.

It's a grey area considering ing that maturity and development is a gradual transition that varies from one person to the next, however that grey area falls well above the age of prepubescence.

Well hell, we agree on this.

Now, about that age of consent thing, with the varying developing issue, should we not set the age higher in the spirit of protection of all children?

My personal observations have seen many 14 year olds with raging hormones wanting to act like women much older. They down right work overtime trying to be noticed as women. That said, their minds are not ready to give consent in my opinion.

I think if we allow girls to drive a car at 16, consensual sex would not be rape until I see adult men hitting on them.

I did not want my 16 year olds having sex, but many of us have had sex in that 15-18 window and I doubt it could be called rape if it was consentual sex.

My focus is on the well being of young girls, not the age of the other participant.

Is this issue how old the men are or how old the girl is?

Age difference is a different issue alltogether.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

I disagree, I don't think young girls should be having sex with anyone.Well hell, we agree on this.

Now, about that age of consent thing, with the varying developing issue, should we not set the age higher in the spirit of protection of all children?

My personal observations have seen many 14 year olds with raging hormones wanting to act like women much older. They down right work overtime trying to be noticed as women. That said, their minds are not ready to give consent in my opinion.

I think if we allow girls to drive a car at 16, consensual sex would not be rape until I see adult men hitting on them.

I did not want my 16 year olds having sex, but many of us have had sex in that 15-18 window and I doubt it could be called rape if it was consentual sex.

My focus is on the well being of young girls, not the age of the other participant.

Is this issue how old the men are or how old the girl is?

Age difference is a different issue alltogether.

HOnestly it should all just be 18 to me. Consent, Alcohol, Military...or 21. All these are things that can adversely affect a persons life. They should be left to an age where responsbility as an adult can be handed out properly.