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Yet Another Study Finds a Reduction in Opioid Deaths with Legalization of Cannabis

Super Universe

Defender of God
Some drugs should be legal. We have plenty of legal drugs already. It's a matter of classification that we've been wrong about before.


I never said this was the case. Jumping to conclusions again?


More baseless assumptions. I've never felt like smoking pot. Of course that doesn't fit with your narrative, so you're never going to listen.

Some drugs should be legal? Some drugs ARE legal.

You never said that addicts should make the rules? I did not say you did. I can make statements too.

You never felt like smoking pot? Some smoke it, others eat the funny brownies, it still has the same effect.
 

Jesster

Friendly skeptic
Premium Member
Some drugs should be legal? Some drugs ARE legal.
Exactly. Now why is it so difficult to accept that a specific drug is classified incorrectly?

You never said that addicts should make the rules? I did not say you did. I can make statements too.
So it was a pointless statement then. This is what we call a red herring.

You never felt like smoking pot? Some smoke it, others eat the funny brownies, it still has the same effect.
None of the above. Would you like to go through every method with me so we can finish filtering me out of your narrative?
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
I used to smoke pot. I was pretty young at the time.
Then I grew up and decided that I didn't think that the side effects were worth it, so I stopped. That was nearly 30 years ago.
I still think that the War on Drugs causes more damage than the consumption of drugs. So I support legalization and regulations.

Nothing to do with addiction. Just a rational view of dealing with a problem.
Tom
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I remember a gal who owned and worked a liquor store who stood in front of a wall of booze and was under a canopy of cigarettes for sale in a clear case over the cash register, who complained about drug dealers.
I think that is because or society just does not approach drugs in an honest or healthy manner. Caffeine is very widely abused and addiction runs rampant throughout society, and it's not even thought of as a drug. Alcohol abuse is tolerated, accepted, and even encouraged on certain occasions, it's rather addictive, but yet we put it in its own category when say "drugs and alcohol." We also think of nicotine addiction as its own separate category, and call them "smokers" who may or may not "quit," and seldom do we accept and embrace they too have a drug addiction. A few OTC drugs in large enough doses can cause recreational highs. But you'll never be shamed for taking Benedryl for your allergies or cough syrup when you have a nasty cold. They can get you really high though - I've heard Benedryl can even really make your mind flip with very vivid hallucinations, and descriptions often revolve around the idea that one is living in a horror film. I've never used it for such an effect, but I'll sure take a couple pills when my allergies are flared up.
And why would any society want to decrease the rate of opiod deaths? That's interfering with evolution at work.
"Evolution at work" made us social animals and care for people, and even us who are empathy-impaired still care about others and are concerned with how people are doing. And in many cultures, drug addicts (real addicts/junkies, not the average occasional user) do not receive this "you piece of ****" attitude, but rather they are cared for, helped, and tend to find themselves in much better position for recovery. Whether you like it or not, we are social animals--apes to be specific--and we survive as a group, not as individuals. Mutual cooperation evolved us, not everyone for themselves.
You're quick to make accusations. When did I ever say I've touched pot? Of course it's easier to dismiss me as a pothead than actually listening to anything I have to say. That would disrupt your entire foundation here.
Apparently loosely paraphrasing from research documents and publications makes you an addict according to some.
Well we all know the debates are pretty much over THC.
The thing that gets you high.

Not any medical benefits minus the buzz people like to get which Im pretty sure people are gunning for.

Just admit it's all about the high.
When I went to Colorado, it made me a stronger supporter of medical use, because when it's fresh and hasn't been vacuum sealed and not handled with care, you don't need to use as much, and you don't need to get stoned to get the medical benefits. Do some people just want to get stoned? Sure. Does everyone who drinks wine or beer abuse them and get drunk? No.
Addicts don't keep their addiction to themselves. They drive stoned, the operate machinery stoned, they steal to get money for their drugs, they get paranoid and think their neighbors are trying to do something to them. Don't kill my family because you got stoned and wanted to drive to the store and get a bag of cheetoh's.
Why this hyper obsession with dismissing sweeping all drug users into this huge lump of addicts? Do you think when these topics are formally studied researchers aren't watching out for signs of addiction? It may be hard to accept this, but even advocates such as myself sometimes look at people who bring up driving under the influence like they've just asked something very bizarre, because it's kind of a "no duh" thing like driving drunk.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Where did you get that idea?

The topic of the OP is about the findings of scientific studies showing that legalization of cannabis is associated with decreases in opioid deaths, and showing various other health benefits of use of marijuana. there is no debate about those findings, is there?

What do you wish to debate about those findings?
Because people just don't want THC free cannabis. So it's not hard to determine where the argument lay.
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
Exactly. Now why is it so difficult to accept that a specific drug is classified incorrectly?


So it was a pointless statement then. This is what we call a red herring.


None of the above. Would you like to go through every method with me so we can finish filtering me out of your narrative?

Why is it so difficult to accept that pot is classified incorrectly? Because I've seen the effect of it. I even tried it twice in high school. People become zombies and hallucinate and it makes them paranoid.

My statement was pointless? Your statements are pointless.

You've never eaten the funny brownies? So you are supposedly someone who has never once tried any drugs but you support others having access to hallucinogenic drugs. I'm not buying it.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Exactly. Now why is it so difficult to accept that a specific drug is classified incorrectly?
IMO, as long as people are keeping their business to themselves, and better taught about drugs, the entire classification schedule thingy needs to go. Most drugs do have some medical benefit, rendering it inaccurate from the start anyways. And making drugs illegal has just been an abysmal failure, and the fallout from it just is not worth it. Personally, if someone is going to use meth, I'd rather them just be able to go to the store and buy meth that has been made in a real lab by real chemists (sort of like what we would give to someone with ADHD) than having them put entire city blocks and apartment buildings at risk because of the risk of fire and the high toxicity of the byproducts from the production of street meth. And if they get addicted, it would be so much easier to study addiction and addiction treatment. And to top it all off, those violent cartels that revolve around drugs would be out of a job, and even the ones that could survive would still take a very hefty and massive blow having such a massive income source evaporate before their eyes.
Because people just don't want THC free cannabis. So it's not hard to determine where the argument lay.
Merinol is synthetic THC. But that's all it is. Because of that, it won't work the same as regular cannabis will, because cannabis has all the different cannabonoids that give different health benefits. Unlike it's psychoactive usage, medically there is no "this one is it that does it" cannabonoid. All them combined work for various things.
 

Jesster

Friendly skeptic
Premium Member
Why is it so difficult to accept that pot is classified incorrectly? Because I've seen the effect of it. I even tried it twice in high school. People become zombies and hallucinate and it makes them paranoid.
Never mind what all those scientific studies say. We'll go with your anecdote instead, even if it's actually less harmful than alcohol (which is legal).

My statement was pointless? Your statements are pointless.
:rolleyes:

You've never eaten the funny brownies? So you are supposedly someone who has never once tried any drugs but you support others having access to hallucinogenic drugs. I'm not buying it.
Of course you aren't buying it. I've already stated why you aren't.

Although I will point out that I have tried some drugs. I used to drink a lot of alcohol. I occasionally have some caffeine too.
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
I used to smoke pot. I was pretty young at the time.
Then I grew up and decided that I didn't think that the side effects were worth it, so I stopped. That was nearly 30 years ago.
I still think that the War on Drugs causes more damage than the consumption of drugs. So I support legalization and regulations.

Nothing to do with addiction. Just a rational view of dealing with a problem.
Tom

You used to smoke pot but then grew out of it? Not everyone does.

You think the war on drugs causes more damage than the consumption of drugs? I disagree. What damage does it cause to destroy a truck load of pot?

I do not support legalization but the California voters voted to legalize it so it's a done deal. Years down the road I think they will change their minds when they see their grown children doing nothing with their lives except sitting around smoking pot all day long.
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
I think that is because or society just does not approach drugs in an honest or healthy manner. Caffeine is very widely abused and addiction runs rampant throughout society, and it's not even thought of as a drug. Alcohol abuse is tolerated, accepted, and even encouraged on certain occasions, it's rather addictive, but yet we put it in its own category when say "drugs and alcohol." We also think of nicotine addiction as its own separate category, and call them "smokers" who may or may not "quit," and seldom do we accept and embrace they too have a drug addiction. A few OTC drugs in large enough doses can cause recreational highs. But you'll never be shamed for taking Benedryl for your allergies or cough syrup when you have a nasty cold. They can get you really high though - I've heard Benedryl can even really make your mind flip with very vivid hallucinations, and descriptions often revolve around the idea that one is living in a horror film. I've never used it for such an effect, but I'll sure take a couple pills when my allergies are flared up.

"Evolution at work" made us social animals and care for people, and even us who are empathy-impaired still care about others and are concerned with how people are doing. And in many cultures, drug addicts (real addicts/junkies, not the average occasional user) do not receive this "you piece of ****" attitude, but rather they are cared for, helped, and tend to find themselves in much better position for recovery. Whether you like it or not, we are social animals--apes to be specific--and we survive as a group, not as individuals. Mutual cooperation evolved us, not everyone for themselves.

Apparently loosely paraphrasing from research documents and publications makes you an addict according to some.

When I went to Colorado, it made me a stronger supporter of medical use, because when it's fresh and hasn't been vacuum sealed and not handled with care, you don't need to use as much, and you don't need to get stoned to get the medical benefits. Do some people just want to get stoned? Sure. Does everyone who drinks wine or beer abuse them and get drunk? No.

Why this hyper obsession with dismissing sweeping all drug users into this huge lump of addicts? Do you think when these topics are formally studied researchers aren't watching out for signs of addiction? It may be hard to accept this, but even advocates such as myself sometimes look at people who bring up driving under the influence like they've just asked something very bizarre, because it's kind of a "no duh" thing like driving drunk.

In many cultures drug addicts are cared for? There are people in the US who care for addicts, personally, I don't see the point. This Narcan stuff is a waste of my taxpayer money. The best thing that can happen is for them to overdose. Even if they do get clean some day what are they going to do, cure cancer? Not a chance. We don't need more drug counselors.

Not all drug users are abusers? To you, someone who has to have a few hits of pot every day "to function" is not an abuser. To me, they are.
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
Never mind what all those scientific studies say. We'll go with your anecdote instead, even if it's actually less harmful than alcohol (which is legal).


:rolleyes:


Of course you aren't buying it. I've already stated why you aren't.

Although I will point out that I have tried some drugs. I used to drink a lot of alcohol. I occasionally have some caffeine too.

You think all the scientific studies support the idea that pot is completely safe? Wrong.

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/addiction/marijuana-use-and-its-effects#1

http://www.lung.org/stop-smoking/smoking-facts/marijuana-and-lung-health.html

http://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfacts/marijuana/the-harmful-effects.html

Alcohol is more harmful than pot? I agree. It should also be illegal.
 

Jesster

Friendly skeptic
Premium Member
You think all the scientific studies support the idea that pot is completely safe? Wrong.

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/addiction/marijuana-use-and-its-effects#1

http://www.lung.org/stop-smoking/smoking-facts/marijuana-and-lung-health.html

http://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfacts/marijuana/the-harmful-effects.html

Alcohol is more harmful than pot? I agree. It should also be illegal.

Of course it has some side-effects. All drugs do, which is why they are classified as drugs. My point is that its "danger" is blown way out of proportion. Like all drugs, I think there should be some level of regulation if it's to be deemed legal. That's what we currently do with every legal drug now anyway.

Now if you think alcohol should be illegal, I think we've found the problem. Good day. :laughing:
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
The only thing that succeeded in doing was creating alcoholics, women as a group began to abuse alcohol, and some gangsters got very rich and powerful. Other than that, it failed so miserably the prohibition against alcohol was repealed.

So we should change the laws because the criminals won't follow them?

Prohibition didn't fail. It greatly reduced the amount of alcohol that was available to the public but people wanted to get drunk so they changed the law.

How many DUI accidents do they have in Saudi Arabia each year?
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
The only thing that succeeded in doing was creating alcoholics, women as a group began to abuse alcohol, and some gangsters got very rich and powerful. Other than that, it failed so miserably the prohibition against alcohol was repealed.
True but ironically, I think deaths by gangsters fall far short from death caused by drunk people who don't care and always repeat their stupidity.

Can people be responsible with mind-altering substances in an unregulated manner? No.



Absolutely not.

Seems like a damned-if-you-do damned-if-you-don't situation.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Prohibition didn't fail. It greatly reduced the amount of alcohol that was available to the public but people wanted to get drunk so they changed the law.
I don't call turning non-violent people into criminals and making violent criminals prosperously wealthy to be a success. And while it did reduce the amount of alcohol available to the public, the rate of alcoholism also increased. The Temperance Movement was far more successful in reducing the amount of alcohol consumption (and not creating alcoholics in the process), and all they did was preach.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
True but ironically, I think deaths by gangsters fall far short from death caused by drunk people who don't care and always repeat their stupidity.
I'm pretty sure that the death rate at the hands of Cental/South American drug cartels far exceeds the deaths caused by the drugs they deal.
And do you really want to punish all of society over the stupidity of a relative few, especially when society needs a serious social attitude readjustment towards substances like alcohol? It's not "drugs and alcohol." Alcohol is a drug, we don't say it enough, we think it enough, and we don't accept or acknowledge it enough. Rather, we just expect, accept, and encourage people to abuse to the point of vomiting and total intoxication. That's no so much alcohol as it is thinking we should spend New Year's Eve with a bottle or two.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Because people just don't want THC free cannabis.
Apparently some people do. Nevertheless, cannabidiol has simply not been shown to be effective in achieving those results found in the studies cited in the OP. I realize that you would rather people swallow ineffective pills than experience a psychological change due to THC. But all manner of commonly prescribed drugs have, and are only effective because they have, psychoactive effects. It's just your hang-up that makes you imagine horrible things happening when someone smokes or vapes cannabis. The thought produces anxiety, doesn't it?
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Apparently some people do. Nevertheless, cannabidiol has simply not been shown to be effective in achieving those results found in the studies cited in the OP. I realize that you would rather people swallow ineffective pills than experience a psychological change due to THC. But all manner of commonly prescribed drugs have, and are only effective because they have, psychoactive effects. It's just your hang-up that makes you imagine horrible things happening when someone smokes or vapes cannabis. The thought produces anxiety, doesn't it?
Actually it isn't pills, it's an oil placed under the tongue. Please research before responding, because it pretty much blows your arguement out of the water. You clearly don't read posts as much as you should because I mentioned it was oil earlier. Too much weed?

This came from my cardiologist, who I'm sure has far more expertise on the matter than both of us put together.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Actually it isn't pills, it's an oil placed under the tongue.
Cannabidiol pills: https://healthyhempoil.com/shop/dixie-botanicals/cannabidiol-pills/

Big pharma will undoubtedly sell pills.

So you still know of no human studies having statistical power that have demonstrated cannabidiol is effective in achieving any of the results of the studies cited in the OP, or for treating anxiety disorders. Correct?

So what is your anxiety about cannabis? I bet you don't disapprove of alcohol being legal. Do you?
 
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