Your Complaints About Christianity?

[sun rise]

Also would say that the bible is not authority (Nor myself) ~ Yet God Himself is, and as believers all believers are responsible for their very own individual faith ~ And it is a personal relationship between the believer and God.

Amen

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Do you have any complaints about Christianity?

What are some of the things about Christianity that you personally do not approve of; or accept in the contents of the bible?

What are some of the things about Christianity that you personally do not approve of; or accept in the contents of the bible?

Alright, so these are two separate areas of concern. The former I don't have time to address, as I think the bible actually contains multiple narratives that were thrown together over the long course of time. In short, the result is that some stories end up having little to do with others.

Onto Jesus.. So as I believe I wrote to you before, I like to see Jesus as more of a philosopher than anything else, and that he might fit in well on that shelf, among the many others. But the philosophy of Jesus has been considered divine, and the philosopher deified.

What exactly is the philosophy of Jesus? Well I have reason to believe that it is basically a form of amplified stoicism, pumped up on the language of religious resolve, and surety of a holy life after one's death. And, I view Christianity itself as a complaint. Do you read any history from the 1st century? If not, you should. Tacitus, a non-christian roman historian, writes a most a haunting, offhand passage about the emergence of Christianity in Rome, and though he doesn't think well of the religion himself, the modern reader can cut through that to understand the social dilemma he describes.. That is, that the Christian religion was a complaint against the power of earthly tyrants - and it was not one grounded in hope for worldly life, but that the world was doomed to the control of tyrants, and the real hope was in heaven

I cannot be so materialistically nihilistic as that, to say that just because there can be great corruption, there can be no hope in the body, nor the world. Just look at what science has done for the modern human - if there is no hope in what it has done, why use any of its fruits? We cannot merely let the world rot in the hope of another beyond death. Granted, the words of Jesus, and the lives of the early Christians show us that man can be driven to desperation. But cannot he also be elevated into worldly hope? Must he fulfill these words of Jesus and Paul, that everything must rot, and the just be persecuted? As if one cannot envision a world where the just are lauded?

 

[PruePhillip]

It's defined by all those churches.

The opinions of Jesus - to the extent that we're even in a position to know them - might be useful to help decide what Christianity ought to be... but to figure out what Christianity is, well, we look at what it really is.

Edit: think about your own approach to other religions. Do you really stop to ask, say, whether modern Hinduism really is in line with Krishna's teachings before you call it Hinduism? If you think some aspect of the Baha'i faith isn't in line with Baha'u'llah's teachings, do you say it's "not Baha'i"?

I accept your point. America today is defined by the behavior, beliefs and values of its
people. It clearly was a 'different' America 120 years ago.
So I need to say 'Apostolic Christianity.' This Christianity had no priest - Christ was
their 'great high priest.' They did not believe in churches because 'God does not
dwell in temples made with hands.' They did not believe in idols, holy days, taking
money for service, priestly garments, political involvement and the like. This is not
'Christianity' as we see it today.

 

[Dogknox20]

Very interesting

And thank you each for all of your responses.

Me personally have no problem with God, and what the Son of God Jesus Christ was able to do for all mankind ~ in paying for the entire worlds populations sin ~ and being resurrected again by God.

My only problem for the most part of it is the confusion of what the purpose of the bible? Who was it for? When and who were written to?

People here are right about the Christian + Politics. ~

There are people who will be fanatics about sin. They will look down on others if they are not matching up to their self proclaimed - man - made standards. Sin was paid for and if anything sin has to do with heart ~ being mean, hateful, greedy, lustful, murderous, envy, and other things like that. Believe that for a believer ~ they die to those sins listed above ~ And live towards God in which the holy spirit is given that creates a life of - and fruits of Love ~ peace, mercy, forgiveness, forbearance, humility, kindness, gentleness, faithfullness towards God.


One thing to note is that as some may or may not have mentioned.

Just the fact, of people learning from others, and not really learning anything from the bible itself, and they just say things about this and that, but not understanding most of the new testament context and who it was written.

Us humans had to come from somewhere; and believe that God created each and every single individual soul; which was born here in this body we have of flesh. And all souls will at the end of life return to Him and be resurrected into a spiritual body.

Not everyone might believe or accept any of these things but the bible does that cross to most people is foolish to people who are not desiring to seek the truth about God, and Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 1:18) ~ In accordance to the Christian Scriptures.

There is also sometimes harsh language that was written by Paul; and it takes time to really dig and see what is being said especially in according to all the letters and writings which brings forth a fuller conception of what maturity of Christians will become. (The letters He wrote has specific messages to the first church believers to hold and attain ~ No one after this were able to do or ever recreate this type of Church)

There are things like Eternal Punishment; Everlasting Destruction terms; which haven't full grasped my head around though do believe; that anything we do normally that is bad, will cause destruction upon us in some way; but not kill us. Same thing with Punishment; maybe a person does something and they feel guilty for what they have done; maybe this is punishment.

I personally do not believe that the Christian God of the Bible is going to send all of humankind to hell who does not believe to be tortured and on fire forever. Though do believe that the Christian God of the Bible ~ (From my view of all of the history of the bible has been completed) Jesus Christ has overcame sin, death, grave, satan, she'ol, and the world ~ And the Revelation is completed in my stance in which.

All believer who are resurrected who made the choice to believe and have faith God inside the Kingdom of God and those who are not believers who had the choice to believe and rejected once receiving the truth are resurrected and placed outside the kingdom of God (Revelation 22)

Here are so my thoughts, along with sharing my beliefs, though no one has to believe or accept any of it.

Also would say that the bible is not authority (Nor myself) ~ Yet God Himself is, and as believers all believers are responsible for their very own individual faith ~ And it is a personal relationship between the believer and God.
Thank you all for your time and patience and all of your kind comments.

.
MatthewA I continue... Jesus the man/God is perfect he is without sin... Sin cannot hold Jesus in the grave because sin brings death Jesus had no sins! "The wages of sin is death"!

Jesus was born man so he could die as a man, he came to restore us to eternal life! Adam was removed from heaven because of sin.. IF..
MatthewA if we are IMMERSED into the living forever, can't die again body of Jesus then we also will live forever. We also will enter heaven! Jesus the second Adam does the will of the father! Jesus loves the father! .... knelt down and prayed, 42 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”

We are IMMERSED into the risen body of Jesus by the waters of Baptism, being ADDED to the body of Jesus makes God your father! Being baptized makes us disciples...
The Great Commission.. "Go make disciples of all nations baptizing.."

Disciples are made by baptism! Also Jesus is the Brother of the disciple!
Matthew 12:49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. THINK: If Jesus is your brother then God would naturally be your father! IF...

MatthewA if Jesus was your brother then Mary naturally would be your mother & If Jesus was your brother then God naturally would be your Father!

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I accept your point. America today is defined by the behavior, beliefs and values of its
people. It clearly was a 'different' America 120 years ago.

We were talking about Christianity, not America.

... though the US of 120 years ago certainly had plenty of Christian influence. It manifested as Jim Crow, denial of rights for women, and suppression of science in schools.

So I need to say 'Apostolic Christianity.' This Christianity had no priest - Christ was
their 'great high priest.' They did not believe in churches because 'God does not
dwell in temples made with hands.' They did not believe in idols, holy days, taking
money for service, priestly garments, political involvement and the like. This is not
'Christianity' as we see it today.

Heh... plenty of Christian denominations that call themselves "apostolic" have priests. In fact, the first denomination to come to mind when I read your post was the Catholic Church.

And whichever denomination you thought that "Apostolic Christianity" referred to, they're just a collection of people, too. The beliefs of that version of Christianity are determined by its members, too.

 

[PruePhillip]

We were talking about Christianity, not America.

... though the US of 120 years ago certainly had plenty of Christian influence. It manifested as Jim Crow, denial of rights for women, and suppression of science in schools.


Heh... plenty of Christian denominations that call themselves "apostolic" have priests. In fact, the first denomination to come to mind when I read your post was the Catholic Church.

And whichever denomination you thought that "Apostolic Christianity" referred to, they're just a collection of people, too. The beliefs of that version of Christianity are determined by its members, too.

The Apostolic Church I speak of were those who were with Jesus and wrote the
New Testament.

As for Christians in some other era who denied rights to women. I suppose 2021
is fine because that's all sort out, right? But what about children's rights? Polygamist
rights? Rights of horses not to be ridden? Rights to die if I am a depressed 16 year old
who's just lost his girlfriend. Methinks political rights at a given time don't have much to
do with Christianity.... of the Apostolic Church.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The Apostolic Church I speak of were those who were with Jesus and wrote the
New Testament.

Why would you assume that anyone who wrote the New Testament was ever "with Jesus"?

As for Christians in some other era who denied rights to women. I suppose 2021
is fine because that's all sort out, right? But what about children's rights? Polygamist
rights? Rights of horses not to be ridden? Rights to die if I am a depressed 16 year old
who's just lost his girlfriend. Methinks political rights at a given time don't have much to
do with Christianity.... of the Apostolic Church.

I'm a bit confused. Are you seriously arguing in favour of when women couldn't vote and were effectively property?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm a bit confused. Are you seriously arguing in favour of when women couldn't vote and were effectively property?

Shhh! Ixnay on the omenway are roptertypay. Don't you recognize a good deal when you see one?

 

[PruePhillip]

Why would you assume that anyone who wrote the New Testament was ever "with Jesus"?


I'm a bit confused. Are you seriously arguing in favour of when women couldn't vote and were effectively property?

NO socio/political issue related to Christianity.
Whether you voted or did not vote, whether you were 16, 18 or 21 to vote,
whether illegal immigrants could vote, whether your vote counted for some
gerrymander, whether voting was compulsory, whether voting was every
3 years or 4 or even 5 years, whether your spouse voted for the opposing
party to nulify your vote, whether you vote went to a Senate without real
powers, whether prisoners could vote and so on, so on.
None of this interested Jesus. The Gospel is the Good News of Christ's
Salvation.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

NO socio/political issue related to Christianity.
Whether you voted or did not vote, whether you were 16, 18 or 21 to vote,
whether illegal immigrants could vote, whether your vote counted for some
gerrymander, whether voting was compulsory, whether voting was every
3 years or 4 or even 5 years, whether your spouse voted for the opposing
party to nulify your vote, whether you vote went to a Senate without real
powers, whether prisoners could vote and so on, so on.
None of this interested Jesus. The Gospel is the Good News of Christ's
Salvation.

The Gospel is not Christianity.

Christianity, like any religion, is a community of shared belief. It's the beliefs of its members that define the religion.

The Gospel may inform some of those beliefs, but that's not the same thing.

 

[PruePhillip]

The Gospel is not Christianity.

Christianity, like any religion, is a community of shared belief. It's the beliefs of its members that define the religion.

The Gospel may inform some of those beliefs, but that's not the same thing.

Sadly, I have to agree with you in part. What you see today, a thousand years ago and
even by the end of the First Century AD, for the most part is not Christianity.
As Peter himself put it, after his demise 'wolves' would come in 'and won't spare the
flock.' Diotrephes, the rebel who opposed John, could have been the earliest Roman
Catholic Bishop. There being no Bishop in John's church.
There were always going to be people who obeyed the Gospel, but for the most part
history passed them by as how Jesus lived, and what He taught, was increasingly
sidelined by Christian Pharisees with their ornate gowns, pagan practices, idolatry
and grasping for power and money.

 

[MatthewA]

.
MatthewA Good post with many questions...
I post scriptures!
I have to start here.... God is love! Loving God is to obey God' commands! Adam did not love God or Eve & Eve did not love Adam!

1 John5:3 In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

God commanded Adam NOT to eat of the tree!.. NOTE Eve was not yet formed, it wasn't until after the Command to Adam that God made Eve! NOTE: God did not COMMAND Adam "Do not touch the tree"! LOOK..
2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”
Clearly it was Adam that commanded the woman not to touch! It probably went like this.. "Woman God commanded; don't eat of the tree, I don't want you to even touch the stinking tree.".
Showing us; Eve did not do her husbands will.. She did not love him! LOOK..

6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

MatthewA ... All men understand it is the job of the Husband to protect the wife and family from danger! All would understand the story; Snakes are bad! Adam was there with Eve and the snake, he did not protect her...!
God put the two together but he cannot force them to love.. God is love, to be made in the image of God, man needs to be able to freely choose to love!
12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

They had to be removed from heaven because they sinned, they made freely a choice NOT to love!

I stop here.... But keep in mind Jesus is called "The second Adam"!

That is what is up brother. The Garden has a lot to learn with in it. For sure about us and how we are selfish... now idk if anyone else can say this,

But I for damn sure in my life have been selfish... and a lot of other things too, and still today can be... though try to be selfless by and through allowing the second Adam to flow through by faith.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Sadly, I have to agree with you in part. What you see today, a thousand years ago and
even by the end of the First Century AD, for the most part is not Christianity.

Why would you put "I agree with you" in front of a post that makes it clear you don't agree with me?

Modern Christianity is Christianity.

It's still Christianity even if you don't like it.

It would still be Christianity even if it violated every tenet in the Bible.

It would still be Christianity even if Jesus himself floated down on a cloud and announced that he disagrees with everything Christianity stands for.

Read this again and this time try to actually take it in:

A religion is defined by the beliefs of its members.

 

[PruePhillip]

Why would you put "I agree with you" in front of a post that makes it clear you don't agree with me?

Modern Christianity is Christianity.

It's still Christianity even if you don't like it.

It would still be Christianity even if it violated every tenet in the Bible.

It would still be Christianity even if Jesus himself floated down on a cloud and announced that he disagrees with everything Christianity stands for.

Read this again and this time try to actually take it in:

A religion is defined by the beliefs of its members.

Yep, it's Christianity as in 'cultural christianity' or 'Roman Catholicism' or 'Mormonism' etc..
But it's not the Christianity of Jesus.
So it's down to definitions.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yep,

Please stop doing that.

it's Christianity as in 'cultural christianity' or 'Roman Catholicism' or 'Mormonism' etc..

And also "Christianity" as in Christianity.

But it's not the Christianity of Jesus.

No such thing.

Since you seem to have missed it last time, here it is again:

A religion is defined by the beliefs of its members.

No individual person is capable of defining what a religion consists of. That decision is made by the community.

So it's down to definitions.

And how do you define other religions? For instance, do you define Hinduism in term of what Hindus actually believe and practice, or is it all about what you think Krishna really taught?

 

[PruePhillip]

Please stop doing that.



And also "Christianity" as in Christianity.


No such thing.

Since you seem to have missed it last time, here it is again:

A religion is defined by the beliefs of its members.

No individual person is capable of defining what a religion consists of. That decision is made by the community.



And how do you define other religions? For instance, do you define Hinduism in term of what Hindus actually believe and practice, or is it all about what you think Krishna really taught?

Then let's give it another name - the beliefs of the New Testament church we will
call the Apostolic Church beliefs. (ACB)
Forcing someone to accept that the Inquisition and the Crusades is 'Christianity'
can rob you of what you love about the Gospels. In fact I don't tend to use the
term 'Christianity' if I can help it - I know 'Christians' who don't believe in God at
all and imagine that 'Christianity' is in doing some charity.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Then let's give it another name - the beliefs of the New Testament church we will
call the Apostolic Church beliefs. (ACB)

I'm not going to play this game with you.

Forcing someone to accept that the Inquisition and the Crusades is 'Christianity'
can rob you of what you love about the Gospels.

The Inquisition and the Crusades are very much part of Christianity. If acknowleding this interferes with your religious beliefs somehow, that's really your problem to figure out.

In fact I don't tend to use the
term 'Christianity' if I can help it - I know 'Christians' who don't believe in God at
all and imagine that 'Christianity' is in doing some charity.

Your failure to acknowledge the parts of Christianity you disagree with does nothing to change what I mean when I talk about Christianity.

 

[PruePhillip]

I'm not going to play this game with you.


The Inquisition and the Crusades are very much part of Christianity. If acknowleding this interferes with your religious beliefs somehow, that's really your problem to figure out.



Your failure to acknowledge the parts of Christianity you disagree with does nothing to change what I mean when I talk about Christianity.

It's a bit like these people who use the term 'science' to justify banning GM tech or vaccines,
Or those using 'liberalism' to ban traditional maths in CA curriculum because it's 'white supremacist.'
Or, even 'Republican' while supporting Donald Trump.

If I talk to Jews I feel ashamed to say 'I am Christian' because of the Jews murdered during the
Crusades, and the endless exiling and oppression of them. So I am fine with saying I hold to the
beliefs of the Apostolic Church and Jesus Christ.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It's a bit like these people who use the term 'science' to justify banning GM tech or vaccines,
Or those using 'liberalism' to ban traditional maths in CA curriculum because it's 'white supremacist.'
Or, even 'Republican' while supporting Donald Trump.

I have no idea what you're going on about.

If I talk to Jews I feel ashamed to say 'I am Christian' because of the Jews murdered during the
Crusades, and the endless exiling and oppression of them. So I am fine with saying I hold to the
beliefs of the Apostolic Church and Jesus Christ.

... because you think that Jews are too stupid to realize that "the Apostolic Church and Jesus Christ" refers to some branch of Christianity?

 

[PruePhillip]

I have no idea what you're going on about.


... because you think that Jews are too stupid to realize that "the Apostolic Church and Jesus Christ" refers to some branch of Christianity?

No, because of the sins of the Catholics and Protestants.
You want to put distance between yourself and people who engaged in religious wars and persecutions.
And Yes, Jesus and His church was a 'branch of Christianity.' A branch which copped it from both Jews,
Romans AND early Catholics.

And you DO know what I mean about appropriating terms such as Christianity, science, liberalism and
Republicanism for new ends.