Your God is Not God

[savagewind]

God and His Law have always existed, therefore sin has always existed.

I do not believe that the scriptures are infallible.

They were written by men as they were moved by the Holy Spirit, yet no man is infallible, so errors must exist.

I disagree with the conclusion you have drawn. How is that difficult for you to understand?

Sin has always existed.

God and His Law have always existed, since no one else can claim to be perfect sin must also always have existed.

Your conclusions are based on the false assumption that God, His Laws and sin did not exist before this world.

These things had no beginning.

If sin has always existed then God is the first sinner. Correct?

How can it be possible that God existed with sin before the creation but God could not see it?

Habakkuk 1:13

Or, is Habakkuk wrong?

 

[savagewind]

If sin has always existed and God is not a sinner, of course, then sin came before God. Anything coming before God makes God no god in the creator sense, which is how I know God.

@Prestor John Is God a sinner, in your opinion?

 

[savagewind]

These things had no beginning.

If that is true then my idea of God is wrong. God before EVERYTHING and God after everything.

 

[suncowiam]

Neither of you stopped to consider what the Lord claimed that He hated?

Proverbs 6:16 claimed that the Lord hated seven things and the verses that immediately follow that verse lists those things,

"16 ¶These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren." (Proverbs 6:16-19)

If you actually read Zechariah 8:17 you would have seen,

"17 And let none of you imagine evil in your hearts against his neighbour; and love no false oath: for all these are things that I hate, saith the Lord.

He claimed to hate certain behavior, which were: pride, lying, the murdering of innocents, evil plans devised by people, people who like to cause trouble for others, people who give false testimony and those who like to stir others up or cause "discord".

Zechariah claimed that the Lord also hated the evil imaginings that someone could have toward another and also the giving of a false oath or promise.

No one ever said that the Lord cannot or should not hate sin. He cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.

It's not my job to translate the Bible.

 

[Prestor John]

If sin has always existed then God is the first sinner. Correct?

Incorrect. Why would you assume this?

If there was no incorrectness in the universe, then why would God need Law?

God's Law lies in opposition to sin, meaning that both have always existed and had no beginning.

How can it be possible that God existed with sin before the creation but God could not see it?

Habakkuk 1:13

Or, is Habakkuk wrong?

Yes, he was wrong.

Habakkuk saw that the Lord was going to raise up the Chaldeans to overrun the Land of Israel and this caused him to lament and question God's action.

In Habakkuk 2, the Lord comforts Habakkuk and teaches him how He uses the wicked to bring forth His righteous purposes and that he should be patient and live by faith.

Habakkuk 3 is the prophet praising the Lord and rejoices.

 

[Prestor John]

It's not my job to translate the Bible.

No one asked you to.

However, if you want to have an opinion about the Bible or anything else, how about you actually read it before you criticize it?

 

[Prestor John]

If that is true then my idea of God is wrong. God before EVERYTHING and God after everything.

God is before everything and after everything.

For this reason is He referred to as Alpha and Omega, the first and the last, in the scriptures.

 

[suncowiam]

No one asked you to.

However, if you want to have an opinion about the Bible or anything else, how about you actually read it before you criticize it?

I trusted what another religious person said about the Bible. What validates your beliefs of the Bible more than your peer?

 

[Prestor John]

I trusted what another religious person said about the Bible. What validates your beliefs of the Bible more than your peer?

This has nothing to do with me or another religious person.

You can plainly read from the Bible what the Lord hates if you took the time to actually read it.

I have supplied the verses. Read them and cease to be ignorant on the matter.

 

[suncowiam]

This has nothing to do with me or another religious person.

You can plainly read from the Bible what the Lord hates if you took the time to actually read it.

I have supplied the verses. Read them and cease to be ignorant on the matter.

And if my understanding of the Bible does not agree with yours, then what?

I've become less ignorant by only reading the Bible?

 

[Prestor John]

And if my understanding of the Bible does not agree with yours, then what?

I've become less ignorant by only reading the Bible?

We are not talking about the Bible in general. We are only talking about the two references you shared.

Those verses were clear and there is no issue of interpretation.

You will obviously become less ignorant of the Bible by reading the Bible.

Just like with any other topic.

 

[Riders]

Yes or no.

Is there anyone who is afraid to choose yes or no?

If your preaching Jesus again the answer is no,no I don't believe the bible. Infact those passages you guys keep talking about are a hyposcrisy,God didn't go by those. God ordered war the jewish people to war aand Christians to war who killed Pagans and Innocents because God told them too.

The Bible lies. There are a bunch of contraditcions in those passages including the fact that God told the Jews to lie and steal gold from the Egyptians when theleft Egypt.God did not go by what he said.

God killed innocents when he caused the flood.God killed the children of Sodom and Gomarrah, children are innocents.
The bible contradicts itself, so no I don't believe the bible. If your preaching Jesus no I don't believe in Jesus as God.

 

[omega2xx]

God and His Law have always existed, therefore sin has always existed.

That is a good example where the Bible contradicts Mormon theology.

I do not believe that the scriptures are infallible.

What gives you the ability to know which is infallible and which is not?

They were written by men as they were moved by the Holy Spirit, yet no man is infallible, so errors must exist.

That only applies to prophecy. What makes you think you can determine that what God the Holy Spirit was not inspired by God.

I disagree with the conclusion you have drawn. How is that difficult for you to understand?

Sin has always existed.

That is a good example where the Bible contradicts Mormon theology.

God and His Law have always existed, since no one else can claim to be perfect sin must also always have existed.

That is a good example where the Bible contradicts Mormon theology.

Your conclusions are based on the false assumption that God, His Laws and sin did not exist before this world.

Your conclusions are based on a false book of theology.

These things had no beginning.

That is a good example where the Bible contradicts Mormon theology.

 

[savagewind]

God is before everything and after everything.

For this reason is He referred to as Alpha and Omega, the first and the last, in the scriptures.

How can you say that? God is not before the law (something) and sin (something), according to what you have told me.

 

[savagewind]

We are not talking about the Bible in general. We are only talking about the two references you shared.

Those verses were clear and there is no issue of interpretation.

You will obviously become less ignorant of the Bible by reading the Bible.

Just like with any other topic.

So, read it. שֶׁשׁ־ הֵ֭נָּה שָׂנֵ֣א יְהוָ֑ה

Simply; six these (or, they, such) hate * YHVH

Your Bible has added the phrase, "things does the" right here; *.

 

[savagewind]

If sin and the law are always with The God and God is the beginning and the end then it follows that sin and the law are the end also. Does that leave believers with no hope of ever being free of sin?

 

[savagewind]

You @Prestor John can say Habbakuk was wrong and I can say Zechariah was wrong. Perhaps Zechariah knew the wrong version of Proverbs 6:16.

 

[Prestor John]

That is a good example where the Bible contradicts Mormon theology.

You said this many times without providing a single reference for how it was so.

What gives you the ability to know which is infallible and which is not?

The idea of the infallibility of scripture is not contained in the scriptures. God never said it, so you cannot claim that He did.

That only applies to prophecy.

According to who?

What makes you think you can determine that what God the Holy Spirit was not inspired by God.

I don't understand this question? Statement? I don't even know if it is a question or a statement.

Your conclusions are based on a false book of theology.

Nothing that we have talked about here was recorded in the Book of Mormon.

You have never read the Book of Mormon. You should not try to criticize it without reading it. It makes you look like a fool.

Like how it did right here. Remember when you tried to claim that all of these things I talked about came from the Book of Mormon when they didn't so you looked foolish?

Yeah. That just happened.

 

[Prestor John]

If your preaching Jesus again the answer is no,no I don't believe the bible. Infact those passages you guys keep talking about are a hyposcrisy,God didn't go by those. God ordered war the jewish people to war aand Christians to war who killed Pagans and Innocents because God told them too.

The Bible lies. There are a bunch of contraditcions in those passages including the fact that God told the Jews to lie and steal gold from the Egyptians when theleft Egypt.God did not go by what he said.

God killed innocents when he caused the flood.God killed the children of Sodom and Gomarrah, children are innocents.
The bible contradicts itself, so no I don't believe the bible. If your preaching Jesus no I don't believe in Jesus as God.

See, again, people should actually read the Bible if they want to critique it.

 

[Prestor John]

How can you say that? God is not before the law (something) and sin (something), according to what you have told me.

Those things are as Eternal as He is. They had no beginning nor will they have an end.

So, read it. שֶׁשׁ־ הֵ֭נָּה שָׂנֵ֣א יְהוָ֑ה

Simply; six these (or, they, such) hate * YHVH

Your Bible has added the phrase, "things does the" right here; *.

Well, the Tanakh, which is the English translation of the Hebrew Bible, agrees with what I have shared concerning those verses and even include Rabbi commentary.

The Rabbi commentary for Proverbs 6:16 reads,

"There are six things that the Lord hates, and the seventh is an abomination of His soul: The seventh, too, is [included] with them."

Mishlei - Chapter 6

The Rabbi commentary for Zechariah 8:17 reads,

"And let no one think evil of his neighbors: He warned them concerning hatred without cause, which brought about the destruction of the Second Temple."

Zechariah - Chapter 8

I'll trust the Hebrews to translate and interpret the Hebrew.